biggest miss you see in people you play with

[blackonblack]

As I have been now regularly gigging for a decade or so again, I am curious as to your thoughts on this.

I play with a number of different people weekly (picture a non-preassigned rotating shift). Each time I go to a gig, I view it like a studio gig; you're not always familiar with how someone will approach a particular song. (Not to mention a portion of the time, they have never played with IEMs on a silent stage with a live audience).

Anyways, what do you see as the biggest miss is with others?
For me HANDS DOWN! Its dynamics. People largely don't seem to get it or the impact it has.

As I play guitar and bass, at times I play bass with another guitarist that I would view could shred me out of the room, but has ZERO grasp on dynamics. They don't get how to build a song, relax it, climax it, then land it.

Second would be timing/phrasing. Why are you soloing in 4/4 in a 6/8? (Clue phone did you know that's the reason your solo was too short or too long?)

What do you find is the biggest miss out encounter?

Actually, take that all down 1 level, the biggest miss is people who come unready/unpracticed to rehearsal. Rehearsal is for the SOLE purpose of bring together an orchestrating the final deliverable of what everyone has already practiced.

I guess I am more sensitive to this as the musicians I play with change weekly. If it was just 1 group, you could address it. Either they get better or they are discharged. Not the option in this situation. It's much more akin to coming together for a studio gig where you have the music beforehand.

[OldStrummer]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by dynamics. Are you referring to how people interact with each other, or something about song dynamics? If the latter, please help me understand.

But I 100% agree about timing and phrasing. This is an area I have spent a lot of time working on, and I feel I've gotten better (no more 6/8 soloing in a 4/4 song). No one better exemplifies great timing and phrasing than the current-day Eric Clapton. Oh, I think he was always quite good at it, but as his age and physical condition affect the speed of his playing, he now more than ever relies on tasty phrasing and elegant solos that work within the song. Slowhand has actually become a slowhand!

[blackonblack]

By dynamics, understanding 1. The overall volume change of the song. 2. The changes in volume/playing dynamics you on your instrument need to do for the overall structure of a song.

I?m a proponent of what you choose not to play, or play quieter allows others to stand out as well as yourself when you come in, or go full vol.

So much stuff played live is all full on. You record it and analyze it you see no dynamics. Sometimes the loudest thing said is with a whisper. That?s if everyone else plays by the same rules LOL.

[OldStrummer]

OK, I understand. And I agree, even if I don't play in a band. One of the things I've not yet learned to do well as a solo, mostly acoustic performer, is adjust to being plugged in, run through a house PA, and have a monitor feeding my sound back at me. I do play songs that have louder and softer parts, but since that mostly involves just the way I use my left and right hands (palm muting, for example). I don't really get a chance to hear myself when I'm onstage.

[Offshore Angler]

Generally, I find the lack of dynamics is the symptom and not the issue. The lack of dynamics is generally, IMNSHO a lack of developed listening skills. Being able to hear yourself in the STAGE mix is a developed skill that needs to be learned. Players who lack dynamics are in my experience, not listening to the song and more focused on what they're playing.

So, they don't have the ensemble experience and then it gets added to by a lack of experience in stage mix vs. FOH.

For guitar players there are a few key things they haven't learned:
a.) How to position an amp properly. See it all the time. Amp is 4 feet behind the player, on the floor and not angled up. This results in blasting too loud to be able to hear themselves.
b.) Not being able to communicate effectively with the sound crew about what they need.
c.) and this is paramount - and the number one issue - not knowing how to use the volume and tone controls on the guitar. Some players simply use pedals for a "lead boost" and leave the guitar controls dimed. This automatically removes a lot of the dynamics. (And kills your guitar sound.)
d.) A perceived need for a lot of midrange in their EQ and not letting the treble do the work of putting their sound out front in the mix.
e.) The compulsion to play all six strings on every chord when only two or three is plenty. This muddies the sound and buries them.

Getting the drift? They play muddled sounds and so they get buried in the stage mix, can't hear themselves and then have to turn up. I see this over and over and over and over again with non-pro bands

It all comes back to listening skills, listening to the song as a whole and playing what's appropriate.

Other thing is, with less accomplished players and sometimes even pros, they play what they can, not what they should. We've all done it and that when listening helps. You hear it, park your ego at the door and go back to the woodshed to fix it. And you can, you just need to do the work.

Chuck

[Laker]

Actually, take that all down 1 level, the biggest miss is people who come unready/unpracticed to rehearsal. Rehearsal is for the SOLE purpose of bring together an orchestrating the final deliverable of what everyone has already practiced.

This, for me, is the biggest miss I can think of. In my 60+ years as a musician I have been the leader of several bands that I have organized, booked, and managed. The musicians I work with have been in the game long enough to understand dynamics, etc., but I have worked with a couple who would never come to a rehearsal prepared waisting that time as it would be spent doing what the individual should have done on their own as we?d work through their part of a song.

Second big miss for me would be drinking/drugs on the job. I have worked with musicians who looked at their time on stage as ?party time? and not as work they were being paid to do. I could never get across to these players that I was responsible to deliver a quality product to the customer who hired our band.

[OldStrummer]

Second big miss for me would be drinking/drugs on the job. I have worked with musicians who looked at their time on stage as "party time" and not as work they were being paid to do. I could never get across to these players that I was responsible to deliver a quality product to the customer who hired our band.

Thank you, Mr. Zappa.

I am still amazed that some people don't know that Frank Zappa was adamantly anti-drug. "But he had long hair and a funky mustache, a snarky sense of humor and a crazy vibe. How could he NOT have been on drugs?" There were in fact, at least four members of Zappa's band who were fired for their drug use. And he wasn't pulling any punches about it, no matter how good you were.

[Offshore Angler]

Second big miss for me would be drinking/drugs on the job. I have worked with musicians who looked at their time on stage as ?party time? and not as work they were being paid to do. I could never get across to these players that I was responsible to deliver a quality product to the customer who hired our band.

I mean, face it, playing a lot is a effing grueling grind and so as long as the player knows what they're doing and stays between the lines who am I to judge?

Booze, yeah that can be a tough one. Aren't many players alive that didn't party a little too hardy early in their career. Usually those that make a habit of it never get past the weekend warrior with the wives table stage, so you plow past it and consider that dues paid as your playing career progresses. Once you hit the "player" stage it's almost never an issue.