It sounds like a personal problem to me. I love tweed amps I've built a 5C1, 5F2A, 5E3 and a 5F6A and and I play all of them at different times for different reasons.
It sounds like a personal problem to me. I love tweed amps I've built a 5C1, 5F2A, 5E3 and a 5F6A and and I play all of them at different times for different reasons.
Geez - didn't realise it was a 2203 - nuf saidOriginally Posted by Kap'n
If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......
I think Jerry's issue with tweeds is the lack of headroom inherent in their design (which some of us love for that very reason) more than any possible knowledge about amplifiers - as far I can make out the problem with running tweeds in the modern world is the ever dwindling supply of decent glass... EC and Keef can afford and are more than happy to pay for decent bottles in their amps - whatever they might be. I have posted some decent solutions to this problem but can't be arsed to find them and point him in their direction as I really don't think he is that bothered anway. If he's happy with his 77 JMP why the hell post it here? The same reason he posts anything - to start an argument.
Further... this is not meant to be a flame and an opportunity for the moderators to send me to 'the naughty step' but the plain fact of the matter is that in all the time I have participated in this forum I've yet to read anything that could vaguely be construed as contributary in his posts... just random agumentative whimsy interlaced with occasional admissions of having had too much to drink and an obvious lack of anything better to do...
I remember being shot down in flames for loving my HRDv when I first joined - it smarted a bit but guess what - the damned thing blew up three weeks later - since then I learned a hell of a lot from both the guys here and the places they pointed me at to learn more...
What I can't for the life of me figure out is why anyone responds to this guy - his tagline says it all for me - why in hell's name would any of you want to throw any more wood on this guy's fire? It beat's me
Here ya go. Excellent mornings garunteed!
No but fo real dawg. why yo hatin a a brutha?
I had good glass in my tweeds.It wasnt the tubes. I also had good speakers.I wasn't the speakers.
I though it was a good post cause of all the reverence paid to the KINg of Tone" Bassman holy grail of all amps, and how weird it is to say I do not like it.
What i hear from you, is that having so recently had a hot rod deluxe, which is a great sounding amp, but unfortunatley is a POS in terms of build quality, is that you don't have a whole lot of experience with amplifiers, and would like something or everything to be cut and dried so you can rest easy. Unfortunatly, the road to tonal Nirvana isn't often so easy nor direct, and thats why we have disagreements, civilised arguments, and sometimes GASP, even agree!
Anyhow, I've spent tons of money and lots of time and effort on old tube amps, and now I have quite a few I really like.
I
Last edited by jerryjg; 09-22-2009 at 08:45 PM.
thanks for the tip Jerry but most people already see me as a regular guy
If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......
Wingnut, I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of the other champ circuits. I've got some groovy octal preamp tubes (including a red base or two) lying around that I'll want to implement at some point, but am not sure what to do with them.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
thanks for the tip Jerry but most people already see me as a regular guy
Quick you are, young jedi!
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Jerry. Please take this in the nicest possible way. I mean no harm to you, brother.
If the drinking is an issue, get help. Seriously. I've seen too many folks self destruct. They either get help, or die.
If it's just posting while drinking that's an issue, you need to learn to walk away from the computer after a few drinks. At least on a BBS, you can look back and see what you've posted when you're sober. You can't do that in real life.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Tweeds can indeed have lots of headroom.
Last edited by NTBluesGuitar; 09-22-2009 at 08:12 PM.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Okay Kap'n. I'll try . yep, 10 beers and another 1/2 ( I hope) bottle of Merlot. I guess it all , or alot of it, comes through ass druken to rational sober people. I thought it all sounded rational, but i guess not. Thanks.I will step away from the keyboard. I know if guys like Yankeerob are calling me out, then it deosn't matter what the thing is about, its more of a "wehere hteres smoke theres fire" deal.
I hope I can stay out of trouble here cause this isnt like other places where you get too old for the general forum chat . Once you get too old here, your dead!
I hope i can limit my involvemnt here now, cause i also need to get things done and not be a gear junkie here.
And what groovy little octal preamp tubes might they be Obiwan?
If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......
It's been years since I looked. My F-I-L was a old TV repair guy, and I went through his stash several times. I grabbed every 5V rectifier and 6 and 12V audio tube I could find. Probably 6SL7 and some others, I'd guess.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
As far as I'm aware the 6SL makes a pretty cool PI - I have it in mind to have a go at the old '61 Ampeg Manhattan for the jazzers - one channel straight as is - the other who knows??? Gis a shout if you'd like a coupla old Soviet 6SN's to mess around with... I've got a bucket load that I bought for peanuts... I'd be glad to oblige FOC... Stay cool kimosabe...
Jerry - I - like the Kap - don't hate you - but 10 beers is an awful lot o' suds to be washing down with a 1/2 bottle o' merlot - chill out a bit a bit - you might find you'll lose that S. Bronx accent
Last edited by yankeerob; 09-23-2009 at 02:10 AM.
If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......
I have two Marshall 2204's... very loud! And the tweed circuited Green Eagle Amplifier 5E5A Hot Rod Pro build that TJ did for me is every bit as loud as one of those heads and cleans up much better with just the guitar volume knob. It'll drive a 4 x 12 too when I need more! I have no problem with headroom at all. In fact it's the first amp I've ever had a drummer say was hurting his ears.
Ha ha I finally just watched this video. Awkward 80's video fare at it's best. I always thought that song WAS Floyd, but wondered why his voice sounded different, lol.
FWIW I don't think that's a pedal steel doing the solo on the recording, sounds more like a slide on a Strat to my ears. Also it doesn't really do anything "pedal steel-y", and usually when you get that much gain on a pedal steel, it gets pretty fuzzy/muddy sounding like here @ 1:03:
Sneaky Pete
Also if you attack the strings with the kind of vigor diplayed in the RR vid you'll get some interesting sounding chords.
"FWIW I don't think that's a pedal steel doing the solo on the recording, sounds more like a slide on a Strat to my ears. Also it doesn't really do anything "pedal steel-y", and usually when you get that much gain on a pedal steel, it gets pretty fuzzy/muddy sounding like here @ 1:03:"
It's actually a lap steel guitar on a stand. I saw them back in the day at a show here in Charlotte, NC. Don't know the brand but it sounded pretty awesome. If you listen to Jackson Browne's recordings you'll hear David Lindley playing a lap steel on several cuts too. And I believe it was through some sort of tweed style amp.
Lindley used either a Dumble-ified narrow panel Deluxe or Bassman on most of those JB recordings.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Now THAT was some kind of unforgettable slide tone. Whoah, my goodness.
+1 on that! Not a really big JB fan but David Lindley makes listening to him a treat.Now THAT was some kind of unforgettable slide tone. Whoah, my goodness.
So if you like 100 watt Marshall's you could have a drinking problem ?
+1 on David Lindley.
Maybe you're right dzguitar. Or they could have just used it on tour. FWIW it is a pedal steel in the video, you can see it if you pause it at 1:49.
I've tried using lap and pedal steel in this regard, and I don't know if it's the action (1" or so), pickups, body, or all three, but in my experience it never sounds quite like a slide on a regular guitar. You just can't get the notes to have that same "crack". That and if they did use a lap steel, by the licks he's playing it sounds like it was tuned like a guitar, and most lap steel players don't tune 'em that way. Usually A6 or C6 or slack G, etc.
I just listened to it again and I'm convinced it's a Strat or something similar. My guess is they cut a track in the studio with the lap first, and the producer said, "Sounds great. Now can you do a take on regular guitar?"
No. There's no direct cause and effect. They are, however, strongly correlated.
See what I mean.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Nope. But if you say Pink Floyd and Queen were ripoffs of Jefferson Starship, and refer to Roger Waters as Roger Walker...and if you have, in the past, posted about how you frequently drink a lot and end up posting stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense...
...you *could* have a drinking problem. Maybe it's serious, maybe it only amounts to nothing more than needing to stay off of message boards after ten beers and half a bottle of vino. But it could be a problem.
"I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg
lol
I quess I'm okay then. I have a 1986 50 watt Marshall thats been collecting dust since 1994. I'm good for a beer or 2 when I BBQ , Gig or do "Man stuff" but thats about it.
Can't Imagine how my life could have gone if I had opted for the 100 watt version back then.
Hi Kap'n the 5C1 was built as a group project by the amp building club that I started and tried to keep going. It has a really nice clean sound, but from Ted's description it should have a lot of grind. This one doesn't, but I haven't made any changes because the amp LOVES pedals. I can get a lot of great different sounds by putting different pedals in front of it.
Thanks! I've heard conflicting opinions on the 5C1 as being either fairly clean, or a real grind machine.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Oh, great-another circuit to look at.
Just in case no one noticed-I'm here for the amps.
Yankeerob-great to see you posting again!
Hope everything's just "regular" for you, sorry the circumstances weren't a bit better.
I'm pretty much done after 4 beers, six will last a full round of football and the grillin'.
Not to dispute your observation but I've also seen lap steels that have three legs on them so that they can be played like a pedal steel. I know of guy here locally that does just that with his... the three legs are adjustable therefore giving him the ability to walk up to it and play while still having his electric guitar strapped on himself.Maybe you're right dzguitar. Or they could have just used it on tour. FWIW it is a pedal steel in the video, you can see it if you pause it at 1:49.
As you can also see from the Wiki article above they aren't always tuned to pedal steel tunings but rather open tunings like a slide guitarist would often use.The Lap steel guitar is not tuned in standard guitar tuning (E-A-D-G-B-E, low to high). Rather, it is usually tuned to an open chord, often an extended chord like a 6th, 7th, or 9th.
There are nearly as many tunings for the Lap steel guitar as there are players, but a few are more common [all tunings are shown low-to-high; that is, thickest string to thinnest, or 6th string to 1st string].
Blues and Rock players tend to favor one of two tuning families: open G/open A, or open D/open E.
Open G is tuned D-G-D-G-B-D; open A raises each of those notes a whole-step (2 frets) to E-A-E-A-C#-E. During the 1920s and 1930s, much of the sheet music written for lap steel utilized open A tuning as the de facto standard tuning for the instrument.
Open D is tuned D-A-D-F#-A-D, and open E is a whole-step higher: E-B-E-G#-B-E. Joe Perry of Aerosmith uses Open E on his electric lap steel. David Lindley is another player who uses enharmonic variations of these tunings.
Bluegrass and Country Dobro players using a square-neck instrument tend to favor an altered G tuning, often called "High-G", where the 6th string is tuned up to "G" instead of down to "D", and the 5th string is also tuned up, to B: G-B-D-G-B-D. They also sometimes raise it up to "High-A": A-C#-E-A-C#-E. These are examples of tunings possible on a lap steel that would cause serious damage if attempted on a round-neck resonator or standard guitar.
Dobro players also generally use a set of strings with different gauges than those used on standard electric or acoustic guitars to help them to project more sound and to achieve their higher tunings.
Many Western Swing steel players, and some Old-Time Country steel players, use a C6 tuning. There is no "standard" C6 tuning; one popular one is C-E-G-A-C-E. This tuning is a good one for copping Don Helms' steel licks off old Hank Williams records, although Helms used a steel with legs (a "console steel"), with two necks having 8 strings each; Helms actually used an E13 tuning, which adds the 7th (D) and the 13th (C#) to the E tuning, making it B-D-E-G#-B-C#-E-G#, low to high. C6 is also used by Western Swing pedal steel guitarists on their 10-string pedal steels. This tuning is difficult to achieve on the 6-string steel. A6 is a commonly-used alternate for C6.
The E7 tuning is used by many players, especially those who cut their teeth on the Mel Bay Steel Guitar Method instructional books. The E7 tuning in those books is spelled either B-D-E-G#-B-E or with the 6th string lowered to the tonic E: E-D-E-G#-B-E. Note the similarity of this second tuning to the open E tuning above: the only difference is the 5th string, which is lowered from the tonic E to the 7th note in the key of E, which is D.
There are many other tunings used by players. Pedal Steel guitarists switching over to lap steel often bring over a modified version of the 10-string E9 tuning that is the standard for Country pedal steel; pedal steels, and a few non-pedal "console steels" actually have multiple necks, each in a different tuning, and very often on a pedal steel the 2 main necks will be in E9 and C6 tunings. As noted under the C6 tuning, an A6 tuning is also used.
Anyhow they're really neat and have a very cool sound when cranked through a small to medium sized tube amp!
I am fortunate to have a lead guitarist in my band who doubles on the lap steel. It's a great sound...
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Indeed:
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
They don't screw in, but I guess the guitar might consider Junior's legs a removeable option.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Indeed:
For a split second while scrolling I thought that was Al Gore!
.....
RIP Lacey Cat 1992-2009
You're right, you can put legs on a steel guitar. But once you do that, it's not a lap steel anymore...because it's not in your lap! Those are usually called a console steel, or just steel guitar. :)Not to dispute your observation but I've also seen lap steels that have three legs on them so that they can be played like a pedal steel. I know of guy here locally that does just that with his... the three legs are adjustable therefore giving him the ability to walk up to it and play while still having his electric guitar strapped on himself.
As you can also see from the Wiki article above they aren't always tuned to pedal steel tunings but rather open tunings like a slide guitarist would often use.
Anyhow they're really neat and have a very cool sound when cranked through a small to medium sized tube amp!
Google image pedal steel, and compare an image of that side by side with a console steel. See what makes them different? If you look at the RR video again, you can clearly see (ok, it's kind of blurry
And yes, they do sound badass plugged into just about any amp!
For a split second while scrolling I thought that was Al Gore!
I see what you mean. But Al only plays square-necked Dobros. It's an endorsement thing.
"I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg
Nice one!
I see what you mean. But Al only plays square-necked Dobros. It's an endorsement thing.
RIP Lacey Cat 1992-2009
Naw - it's not like that at all - if you read betwen the lines - and I'm all for freedom of speech - after all that's what forums are about - a good 100W Marshall produces as good a tone as any other amp - in the the right context and in the right hands - Jimi used 'em for that very reason - Johnny Winter used to add a 100W Marshall to his SVT for lead breaks in the good ol' bad ol' good ol' days... and crazy as it sounds SRV is notorious for having a room full of 'em to record...
It's just that jerryjg - bless 'im - starts these stupid threads about - well nothin' basically - the tweeds are what they are - and to stand up and shout that a 2203 is better than any tweed circuit is just pure folly - poor ol' Jim - frail as he is these days - will be the first to admit that a.) the vast majority of his circuits are based on the same revered tweed circuits that jerryjg can't get his head around and b.) they are - like what I'm doing - adaptations of those very same circuits that work on 240+V mains running at 50 cycles - it's not often I come out of the woodwork to say much here these days but one thing I've learned from building tweed circuits here in ol' Blighty is that that is pretty much what he (JM) did...
Every time I have a problem with any Fender tweed circuit I have a look at some or other Marshall circuit and sure enough I find a tweak that sorts it out for running on 240V/50Hz... he certainly deserves credit for that... hell I even build 2204's now from the original '76 schemo (and running 6550's I hasten to add - the very key to getting that right) not because I like 'em (I realise now that I loved 'em 30 yrs ago because they covered up all the fluffs I made with my hands) - but because others do and buy 'em - have they got the tone of an original Leo circuit - no f-ing way!!! But that's not the point - they're still tone monsters in their own right and bless Jim for bringing us all those 70's rock gods that live on today in the form of the heaviest bands available today... it's all relative if you think about it... no point in specifics - my latest 'endorsees' are the The Gods of Hellfire - just a bunch of real nice guys who like to make as much noise as possible...
The more I learn the more I find I know f-all - that's the joy/heartbreak of sticking your neck out - you work real hard and most (well almost all) of the guys your tryin' to please realise that and support you - some of 'em push you a bit further and you respond 'cause guess what - you know what you know but you don't know everything - and someday maybe you get to where Leo and Jim got to - but geez - at least you had a bit of fun along the way
If I could find a road to get away it wouldn't be too soon....... Shipwreck Moon.......
Damn, Rob, this one is worth saving.
Fine job, young man!
RIP Lacey Cat 1992-2009
Kap'n, there was a thread on the Weber Amp Kit site pointing out an error on Ted's layout. I went and looked at the Fender layout and schematic and sure enough it differs from Ted's. I made the changes to make the amp comply with Fender's layout and now the amp has a really sweet OD. I played it with my a Heritage H150 with Schaller Golden 50's and it sounds great. If I play through input one it's a little to much but through input 2 it sounds great. I'm going to play around with one of my Strats and Teles as well. Just thought I'd throw out that update.
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