Navy 3, pirates zero

[rudutch]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090412/D97H7N0O0.html

[curtisstetka]

Sweet!

[phantomman]

We caught them and we executed them under "rule .303".

(nothin' at all ambiguous about musket fire)

[Mesotech]

I'm happy the capitan is safe and I support the manner in which the situation was resolved. However, without a plan of action to prevent future attacks on US flagged vessels, the way this incident was handled will not bode well for those involved in the next incident. And the WILL be a next incident.

I've been watching the pirate activity for a while, and am disappointed with nearly every diplomat's reaction, regardless of what country they are from. The situation is not nearly as hopeless as they proclaim, citing maritime law and a nearly non-existant government in Somalia. Diplomatic solutions only need to be enacted once the hostages are on land in a foreign country. While on the open sea, at least in the case of the USA, the military's primary duty is to protect American interests and keep the shipping lanes free.

True, the area of activity is huge and the US doesn't have nearly enough ships to ensure safety for every ship, but that sort of solutuion would only be effective if there is no pirate activity. In my opinion, once pirate activity began the Navy should have begun assiging an armed squad of men to each US vessel that did not specifically turn down the protection. If attacked, the orders should have been to use deadly force without additional authorization. Then the US diplomats should make very public announcements that US flagged vessels are armed and will defend against any pirate activity.

[Cogs]

Yes, put a contingent of U. S. Marines on every ship that sails under the Stars & Stripes. That would put a halt to a lot of this lawlessness.

[elicross]

I think if, once or twice a year, a band of pirates attacked an innocent-looking freighter only to find it was a decoy crewed by heavily armed special forces (like the SEALs that rescued the captain today), piracy might start looking like too big a gamble.

[doc540]

SEAL snipers from 25 meters.

[melody]

I don't think any of the thieves should have made out alive..

[refin]

I was glad of the outcome,but it was depressing watching the press conference afterwards.None of the press seemed elated or thankful,it was almost like the Grand Inquisition,questioning the moves and motives.Some of our "news" people seem very un-American.

[thegeezer]

I think that the shipping industry should supply their own security from corporations that specialize in this. More jobs!

[elicross]

Yeah, it might keep Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves today) out of trouble.

[curtisstetka]

Some of our "news" people seem very un-American.

Ya think???

[68Bassman]

Good job, way to go Navy!

BW

[cwilliamrose]

A big thumbs up to those involved in the rescue. Well done! But the game has now changed.

I see at least four things that could be done to largely eliminate piracy.

1) (already mentioned) Decoy ships, heavily armed flying various flags and sporting various markings.

2) Convoys. It worked in WWII against a much better equipped enemy. Ships go in and out in groups covered by naval vessels.

3) Blockade any port the pirates use. This may cause legitimate cargo to be stopped. Too bad, if the citizens want goods coming into those ports, they'll kill the pirates themselves.

4) Assassination teams. Send ex-CIA, KGB, etc into Somalia to take out any pirates they can find. There's no real government there anyway, this should work pretty well.

Anyone else got a suggestion?........Bill

[doc540]

"Anyone else got a suggestion?........Bill"

one Ma Deuce on every civilian maritime vessel

[cwilliamrose]

"Anyone else got a suggestion?........Bill"

one Ma Deuce on every civilian maritime vessel

There seems to be a reluctance to arm civilian vessels otherwise I would have included that one........Bill

[elicross]

I don't think we'll be sending special forces into Somalia. We sent Rangers and SFOD-Delta in there, and it was a nightmare nobody's going to forget soon. Blockading the ports the pirates use is problematic because they may not use established ports, and stopping whatever legitimate shipping there is in Somalia would only make things worse there. There are also international, diplomatic issues with blockading another country's port or carrying out military operations there.

Seems like there's a lot we could be doing offshore, though, to make piracy so dangerous to the pirates that they (mostly) give it up.

[cwilliamrose]

I don't think we'll be sending special forces into Somalia..... There are also international, diplomatic issues with blockading another country's port or carrying out military operations there.

Seems like there's a lot we could be doing offshore, though, to make piracy so dangerous to the pirates that they (mostly) give it up.

If you wanted to go in country, it would have to be covert.

I don't think there are any diplomatic issues since there's no real government. If there was a government, the UN could insist on them stopping the pirates under penalty of a complete blockade of the country. The place is lawless and needs to be treated that way.

I think it's cheaper and less dangerous to put up a blockade instead of trying to protect numerous individual ships over a very large area. No ship penetrates the blockade without a search and a legitimate reason for crossing the line. Any outbound vessel refusing to stop or trying to avoid a search would be sunk -- no questions asked.........Bill

[doc540]

There seems to be a reluctance to arm civilian vessels otherwise I would have included that one........Bill

OK, then, one Barrett .50 and a set of earplugs.

[elicross]

I don't think there are any diplomatic issues since there's no real government. If there was a government, the UN could insist on them stopping the pirates under penalty of a complete blockade of the country. The place is lawless and needs to be treated that way.

The problem isn't so much Somalia itself as Somalia's neighbors that might frown on U.S. military action there, especially given the current climate in the world in general and largely Muslim nations in particular. Any action we took inside Somalia would have to be covert, and we'd have to hope it stayed very covert.

And even putting aside the political angle -- and the question of whether or not it's right to hunt and kill a criminal without trial -- would a few assassinations really stop piracy? I don't know. If U.S. law had allowed the authorities to assassinate Al Capone, would that have stopped bootlegging? I think whatever action we (the U.S. or the U.N.) take, it needs to send the message that *anyone* engaging in piracy at any time stands a good chance of meeting the fate Capt. Phillips' three captors met.

[Mesotech]

Assigning a military squad to each US flagged vessel to repel borders at sea would not violate anyone's rights, nor create any diplomatic tensions. US military security onboard US flagged vessels at sea should be perfectly acceptable.

Now, if a group of pirates attempted to board that US flagged vessel, and were killed or wounded in the process, well then perhaps they should have paid attention to whose house they were trying to rob. It wouldn't take very many attempts before the pirates would avoid at all costs any US flagged vessel, and prey upon vessels of other nations. Likewise, it wouldn't take very long before other nations started doing the same. In a very short timeframe, piracy would become a thing of the past.

One problem that could arise as a result might be that pirates could begin arming themselves better, or making decisions to attack US vessels instead of simply trying to capture them. Once fired upon, the US could declare a 'war' because of the hostile acts and begin 'hunting' the pirate mother ships as well as take other steps such as blockading ports and obtaining UN backing. A quick look at Google Earth indicates there aren't very many ports in Somalia to begin with, so it wouldn't require a tremendous amount of resources.

[Gris]

Great news. Special Ops are always a crap shoot. Glad to see they pulled this one off and even happier to see O'bama had the b*lls to order it. My fave first cousin was one of the contingent that was supposed to save the Iran hostages way back when. We all know the sacrifices that are made.

[cwilliamrose]

I think whatever action we (the U.S. or the U.N.) take, it needs to send the message that *anyone* engaging in piracy at any time stands a good chance of meeting the fate Capt. Phillips' three captors met.

That requires that the criminal act occur first, I'd rather prevent it if possible. A blockade would do that. So would convoys.

Ideally you'd like to limit casualties to the criminals and I doubt that will be the case if this continues to happen. They'll kill a few crew members, destroy a few ships -- just to remind the world they have the upper hand......Bill

[elicross]

That requires that the criminal act occur first, I'd rather prevent it if possible.

Well, presumably a criminal act has occurred as soon as somebody tries to board a ship without permission. If they fire on the ship, or even near it, that's certainly a criminal act. If we had a well-armed, well-trained security force on a ship, I'd think they could kill the pirates or send 'em packing before they got a chance to even try to board. And in international waters, I think they'd be justified in pursuing and capturing any pirates who turned and ran after being surprised by a military force on what they thought was an unarmed freighter.

Maybe I just like the idea of that surprise.

[Mesotech]

That requires that the criminal act occur first, I'd rather prevent it if possible. A blockade would do that. So would convoys.

Ideally you'd like to limit casualties to the criminals and I doubt that will be the case if this continues to happen. They'll kill a few crew members, destroy a few ships -- just to remind the world they have the upper hand......Bill

The point needs to be made, they do NOT have the upper hand unless we sit back and allow them to have the upper hand.

It's not as easy to sink an ocean going vessel as one might think. These pirates certainly do not have the resources required to do so at sea. The open sea is not a place you can set a home-made roadside bomb and wait for a convoy to pass, nor can they strap a bomb to their chest and walk into an unsuspecting marketplace. With a diligent watch established onboard the vessel and radar assets to paint a picture of what is nearby or approaching, the element of surprise is pretty much eliminated. The military has the trained disciplined individuals to pull this off, while these practices are often ignored in the commercial fleets.

Also, if the U.S. does not take immediate proactive steps to protect our commerce, the commercial companies will. Then you could potentially have untrained armed individuals riding these vessels anxiously hoping someone trys to attack them so they can get all trigger happy. That could leave a much bigger mess to clean up.

[thegeezer]

These companies make trillions let them pay for their own security.

[Mesotech]

These companies make trillions let them pay for their own security.

I seriously doubt that they make trillions.

On the other hand, anti-piracy is specifically what the U.S. Navy was initially established for.

[cwilliamrose]

The point needs to be made, they do NOT have the upper hand unless we sit back and allow them to have the upper hand.

It's not as easy to sink an ocean going vessel as one might think. These pirates certainly do not have the resources required to do so at sea.

I was thinking they could set it on fire, no need to sink it. A tanker would make an especially nice display.

Anyway, I agree WE need to do something very forceful and do it quickly or it will confirm what they already feel (that they have us by the short ones)...........Bill

[Blue Light]

The piracy in those waters has been going on for years. Funny we've just woken up to it.

I have wondered about the use of the new drone aircraft in a situation like this. I don't know the range -- but I imagine they should be able to take off from a carrier.
That coastline presents a LOT of open water, but given our spy satellites etc, I dunno, seems like a doable thing, finding these bastards.

I bet anything there's a team in the Pentagon already up to Chapter 37 of this playbook.

[Cogs]

These companies make trillions let them pay for their own security.

That's ALL we need: A buncha seafaring Pinkertons

[Iowegan]

It's interesting that the piracy stuff is getting a lot of press since Bechtel and Xe maybe looking for jobs for their mercs soon.

[Mesotech]

The piracy stuff has been getting a lot of press for a few years now. Unfortunately, until they targeted a US ship most American's didn't pay any attention.

I personally had begun to believe that the pirates were well aware of the U.S.A.'s position on piracy and steered clear of those ships on purpose. It seems that these particular pirates were rather young, and perhaps were not aware of their pending fate, or foolishly thought they could beat the odds.

[elicross]

Yep. When this incident first made the news, I thought "Wow, these pirates are either incredibly desperate or incredibly stupid." I was thinking if this was a movie, there'd be a Boss Pirate back at Pirate HQ screaming at his dumbass minions: "You attacked an AMERICAN ship?! And kidnapped an AMERICAN captain?!"

And then, of course, he'd suddenly shoot one of 'em dead to make him an example for all the other pirates.

'Cause really, even if this whole thing had somehow gone well for the pirates, it would still be extremely bad news for the pirate biz in the long run.

[rudutch]

they took 3 more last night... learning disabilities?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090414/D97I51IO1.html

[steve25]

I hear our congress is planing on wasting more of our tax money by having hearings on the matter in stead of just leaving it up to the military, I think they plan on calling Jonny Depp as the first whitness so they can get some real insight into the matter!!

[thegeezer]

These companies make trillions let them pay for their own security.

Well that is what CBS reported and private security with Navy oversight is a very good idea, you all seem to think the one incident in Iraq is the way private security is, just a bunch of cowboys shooting at everybody, they aren't that way.

[Iowegan]

They had some military staffers on NPR and said that the Navy is not in the business of interdicting pirates on the high seas even though commerce protection was their original reason for existing.

Someone also said the Somali's are pissed because they're tired of toxic waste from other countries being dumped off their coast and fishing trawlers wiping out their fishing stocks. Of course you won't hear those complaints on the nightly news.

[thegeezer]

There are always at least two sides to every conflict if toxic waste is the problem they sure haven't let anybody know and they have had plenty of opportunities.

[Fripperton]

They have no government. Who are they going to let know? Reports are that chemical waste and all that "safe" spent nuclear fuel has been dumped there by European nations and China since the government in Somalia collapsed. It's ruined their fishing industry and they have no one to turn to.

Interesting reading

Interesting reading two

[refin]

Apparently the pirates were not deterred---
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090414/ap_on_re_af/piracy