Err... Midi Controller? Or...

[clayville]

I feel like a Jam Zone leech... constantly using everyone else's Jams, and too stoopid to create my own for a little payback.

I've got a small, old handful of song sketches I'd like to get around to finishing and recording, but they'd sound kinda silly with nothing but a click track.

I'm not a keyboard player, but my fingers work. I've, um, heard of Midi but I'm clueless on how to get going. I've got a ProTools LE rig, but without a midi controller every time I open up Reason Adapted or Ableton Live or SampleTank I break out into cold sweats and start bleeding through the nose. The manuals and help files are... opaque.

I'm on a Mac... and so probably have a bunch of Garageband thingies somewhere, too.

The thought of hunting and pecking through pre-recorded loops to build a drumtrack out of legos seems... counter-intuitive... even though several folks like DoD and other such bundles (I've read all those threads), I don't quite get it on just how flexible the loop approach is. Even though half the pop hits of the last decade were built that way. Perhaps a perceived lack of flexibility would keep me out of trouble in the end. But... what about a bass track or some keyboard washes and tinkles? Don't you need another pile of loops? Or, say Band in a Box?

But just to be contrarian rather than simply simple: Am I nuts to be thinking about one of those short keyboard Midi Controllers, some virtual instruments and attempting e-drums, bass and simple keys 'live' more or less? Would my head explode from the learning curve if I had one? Would it unlock a lot of latent hardware/software potential I already have sitting here? Do I need one anyway to take the other path?

Just take two aspirin and hit the next jam that comes along?

[Gravity Jim]

I don't think your "head will asplode," clayville. My son is a computer animator who doesn't even play an instrument, but he got interested in music recently, and realized that with GarageBand on his Macs, all he need was a cheap MIDI controller and he could get right into loop based composition. No sweat... he's having big fun. All this stuff has gotten way easy to integrate than it was when I started learning it... hell, I had to read some prep books just to understand the manuals that came with my early stuff!

I think a musician should:

1. try to make music with anything that falls across their path;

2. create fearlessly, without any concern of screwing up.

Read a basic book lke "MIDI For Musicians" and the nosebleeds will cease. :)

[clayville]

Wise advice.

So... on the controller... is there a prefered under $200 cheapie? I mean, it looks like I'd gravitate toward one those l'il m-audio models for space reasons unless there's some sort of software or bundling option that might make something else more sensible. Would I benefit from the max number of assignable sliders and knobs? Or better off with a brand that's been building keys for decades? Something ProTools likes?

[Gravity Jim]

ProTools will like what you tell it to like. MIDI is MIDI, and it's so blasted crude that everything works with everything else. MIDI is the Briggs and Stratton engine of audio production.

Max number of sliders/faders/etc. is nice is you intend to take the time to configure those knobs for your Reason modules and you really hate mousing around. Me, I don't think it's such a big deal, but YMMV.

For $100 you get 49 keys and mod wheel (M-Audio's littel cheapie, whihc my son bought). For $250 you get more (M-Audio's Ozone has only 25 keys, but a pantload of switches and stuff). A good, long lasting spring-loaded board with 49 keys, plenty of assignable knobs and so on, like the Korg Kontrol, clocks in around $400. A lot of these controllers branded by Korg, Roland, whomever are actually made by a company called Fatar, and you can buy Fatar's Studiologic branded boards for less than famous maker names, and they're just as good if not better. For example:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ers?sku=701822

Or this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ers?sku=708348

That's a bunch of keys for 3 bills.

[Gravity Jim]

Also, for $350, this one is real cool.... TONS of knobs and sliders, if you choose....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ers?sku=701719

[clayville]

Thanks a bunch!

[Richard Hayes]

For $100 you get 49 keys and mod wheel (M-Audio's littel cheapie, whihc my son bought).

This is the Keystation 49e and it's an excellent choice (I have one) to get in the water and get your feet wet. If you don't like it your only out 100 bucks. But I can tell you that for 100 bucks and Garageband it can be a helluva lotta fun. Like GJ mentioned its bare bone (keys aren't weighted et.al) but I don't see how (to start) you can go wrong.

[seagate]

I have a Radium 48 (m-audio) not being a keyboard player it does the job perfectly. Good luck trying to create good sounding drum tracks on a keyboard though. One of the most unnatural activities IMHO. I even have one of those Roland drum pad things and I still can't do it...

You still need to be a drummer I reckon.

Have you tried DoD?

[clayville]

Thanks guys. It really helps my pondering.

Seagate: I haven't tried DoD yet, but I did go kick the tires a while back. As usual, I'm trying to find a 'shortcut' multitasking device for the arsenal (which always turns out to be a bit short of going for the finest you can possibly afford in a single task).

The "to what end?" part is an important one to formulate more fully, I guess (i.e. trying to make backings? or what?). Maybe I just need a Cort bass and some bongos! :bwa

But I do wonder about the mysterious capabilities my software/hardware rig already has if I can unlock the secrets with a cheap can-opener... sort of along the lines of "in for a pound, in for a penny (more)".

(jeez... how many metaphors did I mix there?)

[mgade]

OK, this thread was on top of this part of the forum, so I need to tell ya (here too) that I've just invested in Cubase LE and Groove Agent SE. And I'm in heaven so far. I need to get GravityJims book though... And stop my nose from bleeding LOL > Clayville

[clayville]

:bwa

I strolled into the local Evil Empire outlet on Tuesday and grabbed an M-Audio Oxygen8 v2. I feel a little more like I'm in the 7th circle of hell than in heaven.

It's not the keyboard's fault... it's just all that weirdness I've paid little attention to like routing, buses, and the (for now) overwhelming language of midi ins and outs. But... I've been able to at least get some keyboard sounds out of most of the extra stuff that comes with ProTools: Reason Adapted and the NN19 sampler has gotten most of my attention so far. Get all the knobs on the reszt of the keyboard to do anything is still mysterious. Until I get a book, I've stuffed corks up my nose.

That's what I get for leaving the house.

[Gravity Jim]

Boys, allow me allay your fears.

MIDI is almost stupidly simple. It's just a stupidly simple set of things that you haven't learned yet. As soon as you know it (whihc won't take long) it will all become clear.

[Wilko]

Dude,
If you have Garage Band on a mac you don't need anything else.

Garageband will handle all your midi in a really simple way. You just need someone to sit with you and show you how easy it is.

The loops are really easy to use and sound good. There are great amp sims and even keyboard or bass parts that you can loop and stretch and stuff. Amazing stuff considering the state of the tecchnology just ten years ago.

I'm tellin' you. Garageband is a HHUUGGEE resource.

You can move notes around ona grid for time and pitch and even velocity. You don't need one, but I just got a cheapo keyboard that plugs in to my mac via USB. Makes it a whole lot easier to trigger notes and their velocity.

[clayville]

Cool... as long as someone's holding my hand and all, I think I can make it...

metaphorically speakin', of course.


You're probably right Wilko: I should (just to confuse myself further and 'cleanse the palette') give ol' Garageband a chance again sometime. I got all snobby when I got ProTools, which is clearly beyond my limited powers of deciphermentage, flying solo here in fits and starts.

But I refuse to bow to technology! I ain't licked yet! Surely the next piece of gear will make it all simple again (instead of just 'powerful')!

[Gravity Jim]

I have to disagree with you, Wilko, that GarageBand is a complete music-making solution, or even that it negates the need to understand MIDI to take advantage of it. GarageBand is a remarkable tool and a boatload of fun, but it doesn't come within a hundred miles of the power of a program like Reason or Ableton's Live, both of which would require a good grounding in MIDI and synthesis to unlock. And those aren't complete solutions, either... Reason is a breathtaking set of tools for creative synthesis, but it doesn't have any audio recording function. Different tools for different goals. But knowing the fundamentals of what the system is doing will make creating easier, no matter what tools you're using.

clayville and mgade: here's a basic MIDI tutorial online. Once you "get" this basic info, your manuals will suddenly be readable... kind of like Smith's angelic goggles and the Book of Mormon. If this isn't enough, try Craig Anderton's "MIDI For Musicians," which you can no doubt find for free at your public library.

[mgade]

Your link vanished, GJ. To me it is just as much a question of learning Cubase. Clickable opaque stuff everywhere.

[Gravity Jim]

Well, I dunno wha hoppen there, but you're right, mgade... just Google "MIDI Tutorial" and find a pile.

[mgade]

Well I did and I think I've made it. At least my very first MIDI influenced "song" is done.