Major pentatonic in blues - a separate scale?

[Jesse S.]

A question on how you think about things:

In the "Blues You Can Use" series I am working with, the author teaches the 5 patterns of the minor pentatonic scale, and then shows how these patterns correspond to the major pentatonic scale when you change the locations of the root in each pattern. He talks about switching between the minor and major pentatonic while playing (for instance, using the major over the IV chord), and mentions that Freddie King did this a lot (and, from other reading, I gather B.B. King as well).

I always had a hard time "switching" fluidly from one pattern to another, to switch between the major and minor pentatonics. Today, however, I watched Duke Robillard's Signature Licks DVD on T-Bone Walker, and it suddenly became easier for me.

I don't "switch" between patterns, if I want to add some major sounds to my melody; rather, I know where the 3rd, the 6th, and the 9th are in the basic minor pentatonic pattern. I just treat them as additional notes in the scale and play them when I want that particular interval's sound. This is much more fluid for me than changing my hand position from the minor pent to the major pent.

I can only do this in the 1st pattern so far (and I'm told that's almost all T-Bone played in), but I suppose I will practice in the other 4 patterns as well.

Do you folks think like this? In other words, do you separate the minor and major pentatonic scales into two sets of patterns to play in, or do you consider the notes from the major as added notes in the minor (or vice versa)?

I imagine for country and gospel type tunes, knowing the major pentatonic by itself is useful, but my question is primarily about blues over dominant 7th chords (or 9ths, etc.).

I think something useful clicked in my head today!!!

[JAM]

First of all do you think T-Bone Walker knew the difference between major or minor pentatonics?

How far do you want to bend your brain studying pentatonics?

[sabby]

just pay attention to the maj vs min third. the rest willl come naturally.

[Tele-Bob]

If you take all the scales in your lesson in one position and then lay them over the pattern I had posted in a previous thread, you will see that the notes from your scales are all there in one pattern.

E-----------------5------------7-----8------------------------
B-----------------5-----6-----7-----8-------------------------
G-----------4----5-----6-----7-----8---------------------------
D-----------4----5-----6-----7--------------------------------
A-----------4----5-----6-----7-------------------------------
E----------------5------------7-----8------------------------

The reason I posted this pattern is not so much to say "this is a music expression" so much as to say these are the notes you will use over a I IV V progression. And then by playing them as a scale, they will all be more familiar to you when you attempt to use your patterns here. It's just a little excersize in raising the comfort level.

I do practice this pattern as a scale and find that hearing the relationship between the notes is very helpful when I need to use leading tones for chord changes. "Half-tones lead!"

The trick here is in knowing which notes to use and which to omit depending on where you are in the progression.

[Rickenjangle]

I've always noticed that if I take my minor pentatonic shapes and move them down 3 frets, I seem to get those major pentatonic sounds...but nowadays I just play what comes naturally, whether it be major, minor, pentatonic, diminshed or whatever.

[JAM]

I've always noticed that if I take my minor pentatonic shapes and move them down 3 frets, I seem to get those major pentatonic sounds...but nowadays I just play what comes naturally, whether it be major, minor, pentatonic, diminshed or whatever.

Exactly, Gminor pentatonic = Bflat major pentatonic

[Jesse S.]

Hey JAM, I gotta bend my brain around something! And this seems more fun than other things I could obsess over.

With regards to T-Bone's music theory, I don't know if he could talk about it as "major/minor pentatonic", but he played some pretty sophisticated stuff and I understand he had some formal music lessons for a while, in addition to learning piano, violin, mandolin, banjo, and ukelele as a teenager. So it wouldn't surprise me if he had a solid grounding in formal music theory, whatever that entailed in the 1920s.

Tele-Bob, your pattern didn't fully make sense to me before, but after watching the Duke Robillard DVD on T-Bone Walker I understand what you're saying. I think I had to see/hear it in a musical context rather than just as a geometric pattern in order to really get it.

What I'm trying to say is that some things moved from making a sort of academic, "on paper", sense to a more fuller understanding in a practical, musical sense. Which is always a nice feeling for me!

[sabby]

If you make a scale out of all the notes of the maj/min pents -- and then throw in the "blue note" b/n the 4th and 5th -- you end up with a long chromatic run b/n the major 2nd and the 5th. Think of the third as ambiguous herein. Bluegrass and boogie-woogie runs go across it, often feeling major; blues bends like to live somewhere inbetween, tending towards the minor side.

Then note that the last two notes of your new, expanded scale sit at the 6th/min7th. This is another place that loves ambiguity. Play them strait and bend in the space b/n them.

To mix the two pents, play with that chromatic run and zone b/n the 6th&min7th.

[JAM]

If you keep adding all these scales together you're going to have a chromatic scale. Pentatonics are a way to sort of boil down all this to the notes that most fit the chord. Pentatonic scales are after all just rearranged arpeggios. They work great for guitar since you can play all of them using a 2 note-per-string pattern. Also, you dont have to use the same formula as long as they maintain the 2-on-a-string idea. For example, Gmajor pentatonic, is a G 6/9 arpeggio. Starting from the Root (G) the arpeggio/scale is R, 9, 3, 5, 6. (G, A, B, D, E). Say you want to play something that fits G9 (dominant 7). Change the formula to: R, 9, 3, 5, 7. Now the pentatonic scale is G, A, B, D, F. Get jazzy and make the chord G7flat 9, flat 5. R, flat 9, 3, flat 5, 7. Or G, Aflat, B, Dflat, F. This is still played with the 2-on-a string idea. Or the scales could start on the Flat 9 for the next 'inversion' then the 3rd etc.

Does this bend your brain a bit more?