making Blues Deluxe break up earlier

[Homer]

I know you can raise the clean headroom of this amp with 12AT7's and such in this amp. What kind of tube (higher gain? other type?) needs to go into which slot to bring down the breakup point a bit? right now I'm playing the clean channel on 8, which is just so fine for practise room and larger venues, but will be defenitly too loud for smaller bar gigs (been using the drive channel for years, but got tired of it).

For the record, I have a Ruby Tubes E83CC highgrade/low noise in V1, some cheesy Mesa Boogie 12AX7A in V2 (unused if I use the clean channel, right?) and a Ruby Tubes ECC83-Cz in V3, along with two old Sovtek 6L6GC's (I think they are still the ones the amp came with; they still sound great though ).

So, what should I use? Other brand, higher gain, possibly other type of tube?

[brianf]

Hi Homer;

I was born in Wuppertal.

If you look at the power tube side of things, something like the Groove Tube 1 to 10 rated tubes would help. They come in 3 color choices red, white and blue. I forget which one has the least headroom but it is explained on their web site. Get the color that does give you the least amount of distortion and then you get into the 1 to 10 rating to further fine tune.

On the preamp side some sort of 12ax7 must be able to lower headroom.

Or call or e mail www.thetubestore.com and they will know for sure. They have always given me great advise.

Many experts on this forum will also have ideas.

brianf

[Watto]

When it comes to gain factor the 12ax7 has a gain factor of 100
the 12at7 has a gain factor of 60
the 12AU7 has a gain factor of 20

So if you are playing on 8 at the moment and you change V1 (clean) and V2 (Dirty) to 12AU7's and V3 (phase inverter) to a 12AT7 you could probably play on 12.

12AU7's allow for a more usable range on the Gain/Volume controls with less fuzzy/more bluesy distortion

That's the combo I use in my Blues Deville and I'm very happy with it.
Only go down as low as a 12AT7 on the phase inverter as anything lower will fry but you can chop and change your V1 and V2 as you please without hurting anything.

My 12AU7's are electro harmonics.

Watto

[Homer]

Watto, this doesn't work. Just for kicks I tried both a 12AT7 and a 12AU7 in V1, and now I can play the amp on 12 very well; however the amp stays ultra clean all the way, just as I suspected earlier. So it's really a must to keep a 12AX7 in V1, or there isn't any breakup at all. I also tried the 12AT7 in V3, and while it smoothened the sound a bit, I wasn't really pleased as well, because the amp lost a bit of his "grit" and growling (probably because of the lesser gain the power amp wasn't pushed enought any more). So, my quest for the ultimate tone will continue.... either I'll need some power tubes with less power, or use some kind of power attenuator which don't really want). Or I just keep on playing fucking loud .

but thanks anyway for trying to help me out; I'll try the 12AU7 or the 12AT7 in my old H&K Tubeman, maybe it warms up the tone a bit (that thing has tons of gain anyway :)).

Edit: I didn't have too much time to experiment at today's rehearsal; maybe one of those low gain tubes makes the drive channel more pleasant sounding and I can use that one better... we'll see.

[Watto]

Homer I've never played at that volume,but i thought they would break up.Sorry about that!
I use a TS-808 on clean boost ie Drive on 1,Tone on 4 and level between 6 to 10 to push it over the edge.The same way SRV did it.
I once used the 250k volume pot in the fx loop and setting the lot on 12 and using the pot as a master volume.That was with the 12ax7's until I changed to the AU's.I'm also doing all this to the Blues Deville with the 60 watt head so it probably behaves a little differently to the 40watt head.

Watto

PS I've found a mod that can turn a HRD into a more blackface sounding amp which I'll post for you soon.

[Homer]

No problem Watto!

I've found a good solution for my problem. I'm using a 12AX7 in V1, a 12AU7 in V2 and a 12AT7 in V3 now. The clean channel stays clean up to ~10 now wit ha little breakup at full volume, which is a ood rhythm sound for full stroked chords, but it lost alot of the sparkling fender tone; I don't have a use for clan sounds though, so that's OK.

The drive channel really came to life though with the tube change, it brightened up alot and became so much smoother with just the right amount of grit at full drive and 4 on master, which gives a tolerable volume for medium sized and larger venues. It might give a bit too little breakup for small bars though, so I might get a second 12AT7 for V2 for smaller bars so I have a little more drive. Or I might just dial up the drive a bit on one of my OD pedals . But if volume is only a minor issue, the amp's dirt channel sounds really great now. It actually breaks up later, but the sound is sooooo much better, that the loss of breakup just doesn't really matter.