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Thread: PA Set Up Help

  1. #1
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    PA Set Up Help

    Can you guys point me to any good links on PA set up for live performance?

    We have an 18 channel Mackie mixer with Mackie and EV powered speakers. It seems everyone in the band has their own idea of how it needs to be set. I set it up so the feedback is minimal and the bandleader will restet it. Not because it sounds bad necessarily, he feels it needs to be set a certain way no matter what. He wants all the tone controls at their mid position and the EQ the same way because he says that is "flat" response. I cut the mids and bass a bit because it seems those frequencies sqeel the most.

    Should the powered speakers be set at midway volume or higher? It seems to me the volume on the speaker should be set higher and then adjust the volume from the mixer end. Right now we always end up with the mic volumes set almost as high as they go.

    This whole issue has been a nightmare the last several gigs. Any help is appreciated.

    What happens is we soundcheck and the system sqeels so the masters get turned way down, then I have a hard time hearing my guitar.

    Tim C.:)

  2. #2
    Forum Member Telebluesfan's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    Yamaha has a great (but highly technical) manual called "Sound Reinforcement". You can learn a lot from it - it's available in any Music superstore for around 20 buck I believe.

    FWIW - I'm squarely in your bandleader's camp on overall EQ. I try to keep it as close to flat as possible and adjust individual EQs to suit our ears - but again, as little as possible or as close to flat as I can. That said - most PA speakers have a frequency response curve (amplitude versus frequency) that resembles a slight frown. That is - a speaker's ability to reproduce the signal that is sent to it by the amplifier falls off slightly at the highest and lowest ends of a graphic EQ. That is why many people tend to like a 'smiley face' EQ. That's OK - as long as it is done conservatively. I'd try to avoid dropping out frequencies at the highest end and lowest - your speakers are probably already doing that to some degree.

    Managing feedback more often than not is about managing speaker/microphone placement. The type of microphone has a great deal to do with how well you'll be able to 'ring out' your system. We use 3 SM58s and one cheapy 'other'. Guess which mic gives us the most feedback issues? Its pickup pattern evidently is much wider than the 58s and it tends to be biased to the higher (more 'squealing') frequencies. So we adjust that individual INPUT accordingly. Be careful how the monitors and speakers are placed. It's not rocket science and you should be able to eliminate any obvious offenders. Simply put - try to avoid any situation where the output of any speaker has a direct line-of-sight into the input of the microphones. Sometimes even 'bounced' signals can produce feedback - so also watch for hard surfaces that may bounce the speaker's signal back into the face of the mics.

    For us - the 'usual suspects' are frequencies in the 500hz and 1000hz range. I can almost predict from gig to gig where our feedback is going to occur. Usually, if I have to stray from a dead flat EQ - it is to pull 1-2 'lines' out of either or both of these frequencies on the graphic EQ. On my onboard EQ, a line equals 3 dbls - so it really doesn't take much for the electronics to adjust. It's doubtful most human ears can hear an adjustment of much less than 5 or 6 dbls on any given frequency.

    Regarding hearing yourselves: Use your amps as your monitors and try to keep as little non-vocals going through the PA monitors as you can. If you don't have monitors - get them for vocals at least. IT doesn't take much volume to hear onstage if everyone agrees to be conservative about stage volume - you can let the PA do the work. An inexpensive stage monitor can be had in the form of a small practice bass, keyboard, or acoustic guitar amp. They all work great for this purpose and one of your bandmates may already own one. Just patch in your monitor or auxilary send into it and adjust individual monitor/aux levels accordingly.

    Room acoustics play a huge role in feedback. Absorbing rooms are your friend - those with lots of soft surfaces like: carpet, soft tile, ceiling/acoustic tile, lots of human bodies. 'Hard' rooms can give you fits: large, empty rooms with hard surfaced floors, walls and ceiling with few human bodies in them to soak up the sound. Rule of thumb is this - in a 'hard' room, you simply must keep the levels down because you'll have natural reverb happening throughout and lots of chances for the sound to bounce back into the mics. In a hard room - you simply have to play a little softer, period. 'Soft' rooms will allow you to keep the levels higher.

    Last bit of two-bit advice is this: Every control on the panel/speakers has a notch or indicator for '0' or unity gain. That means the signal is neither cut nor boosted. I - under NO circumstances - ever turn a POWERED control past unity gain and about 95% of the time, I also do not 'boost' EQs. My only exceptions on the PA are the bass guitar and the kick drum inputs - both of which get a fairly healthy boost on the low and high EQs. Everything else is 'cut' - if any adjustment is necessary. In a perfect world/room/system, you can set EVERY indicator to unity gain and the sound you would achieve is a perfect reproduction of how everything is supposed to sound. Of course, nothing is perfect and we have to adjust to system imperfections, room imperfections, and our own ears' preferences and biases. But I'm a big believer that unity gain is the ceiling for all powered adjustments and 95% of my tone/EQ adjustments. To try to boost too much is just asking for feedback problems.

    Good luck - sorry for the lengthy dissertation. But I believe in the KISS principle. 'Flat' is a good thing IMHO when talking about PA tweaks and adjustments.

    Best regards.

  3. #3
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    There was this guy--one of those solo acoustic/singer guys--who was a friend of mine. Anyway, one night we went to see him and he'd just bought a super-expensive Rane EQ for his PA rig, and at a set-break he came over to go on and on about how much better he sounded now that he'd bought the EQ.

    I went over and looked at his rig and saw that it was dialed in at its middle-detented position for every single band.

    I explained to him that this basically meant it was OFF. He laughed at me and said, "no, no, you don't understand. Now it's all equal."

    I laughed for like a week about that.

    I agree with TBF as far as KISS goes with live PA EQ. However, your band-leader is kinda brainless as well.

    You have to use your ears. Again, I agree with TBF that you'd want to leave your Mains EQ as flat as possible and then dial in channel EQs to taste.

    However, that doesn't usually achieve anything. Every room is different. Some swallow up midrange, while others reveal too much midrange. Some super-reflective rooms enhance way too much high frequency and/or create bass traps.

    You are doing just fine by "ringing out" the feedback from the mains or monitors, but a separate graphic EQ is really the way to go for that--ideally one for the Mains and one for the Monitors, although you can defintely use a stereo graphic EQ and use one channel for each of those, since I doubt you run your Mains in stereo live. If you have the separate graphic EQ for that, you can make far more subtle changes to the master EQ to help with deficiencies in your room.

    The biggest misconception (like with my idiot friend) is to think that putting EQ knobs or sliders in the middle creates a "flat" response. It ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT.

    The EQ is there for you to tweak in accordance with the room you're in to CREATE a flat response when the room is otherwise altering it.

  4. #4
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    When I mix, I am constantly changing the settings for the first few songs. Then it's just minor stuff from that point on.

    I don't see how you can set your PA "flat" when your room is not anywhere near "flat".

    I've worked with some that shoot the room with a noise generator and a spectrum analyzer. That's the only way to really set your EQ so it is "flat". Problem is, once you stick people in there, all those settings are different. That's why auto feedback killers are popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack
    The biggest misconception (like with my idiot friend) is to think that putting EQ knobs or sliders in the middle creates a "flat" response. It ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT.
    Jack is absolutely right.

    Another problem I always see is the vocals are really muddy, most bands think a lot of bass in the vocals sound great, but from the audience, it just sounds like mud. You can't make out a word. I see this all the time.

    I usually cut all the bass, I use the rumble filters and at times turn down the mids.

    Each room is different, you can't ever do a "set and forget it" setup. You need a soundman with the board in the audience to really get it right.

    Mackie mixers have a little infinity sign on the faders. They call this unity. The goal is to have all you volumes loud enough so that each channel can be set at unity with the right volume for all. Channel gain trims have to be set.

    I never am able to keep it at unity, but that’s the goal you are supposed to shoot for. So that means your powered speakers have to be up. Just think if you were using your mixer in front of a power amp. Can you turn the volume down on a power amp? Most only have a power switch...
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  5. #5
    Forum Member BLUELOU's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    JACK HI TIM C BRO "S
    WHA I LIKE IS OK YOU USE POWERED SPKRS TURN THE VOLUMES ON FULL OR ATLEAST 3/4
    I SET THE BOARD FLAT TOTALLY IN ALL CHANNELS THEN EACH GUY SING PLAY THEIR THING I LITTLE
    THEN PULL THE TRIM(TOP GAIN) UP TILL IT IS GOOD VIOLUME
    THEN AS THE SINGER IS BLABINN THEIR GUMS OFF GO TWEAK THE EQ ON HIS HER CHANNEL TO EITHER WARM OR BRIGHTEN UP THA CHANNEL (SWEEP THE BOARD CHANNEL) ON EACH CHANNEL

    ON THE MAIN BOARD WE USE ITS A 16 CHANNEL POWERED PEAVY ITS BIG SO I LIKE TRIM EQ(SWEEP) CAUSE THEN YOU CAN MAKE A CRAP CHEAP MIC SOUND FULL SOMETIMES
    ON SOME BOARDS OR ADD ON RACKS
    THERE IS USALYY A EFX SEND OR EFFX BUILT IN
    THEN =THA EFFX LEVEL ON THE BOARD IS SET TO 1/2 TO FULL WE LIKE A SLAP BACK DELAY HALL REVERB

    THE MAIN EFX IS SET THEN ON POTENT ON THE MAIN BOARD
    BUT THE ACTUAL EFX WILL DIFFER FROM CHANNEL TO CHANNEL
    ITS LEVEL
    SO I USE THER EFX LEVEL ON EACH CHANNEL TO ADD PRISM


    USUALLY FOR ME I LIKE TO SET THE BASS ON A SM58 AROUND 2 OCLOCK+ AND I PULL THE TREBLE DOWN AT ABOUT -9 OCLOCK
    IT WORKS FOR MY 58 VOCAL AND THE MIDRANGE I DONT LIKE MY MICS SUPER TREBLY HIGH SO I USE IT TO WARM UP THE SOUND

    POWERED MAINS ARE KILLER BRO TURN THEM BABYS UP WIDE OPEN
    MAYBE NOISE GATE THE MAINS IN THE EFX LOOP
    SO NO FEEDBACK AND USE THE MAIN LEVELS AS THE PUSH FOR THWE MASTER VOLUMES THE BUSSES ARE THERE FOR FULLNESS IMOP

    I LIKE A LITTLE GATE CAUSE PIUSHIN 3-6 THOUSAND WATTS IN A PA AND THERE IS NO FEEDBACK
    MAYBE IF YA GOT A PINK NOISE GENERATOR SPECTRUM ANALYZER LIKE THE PEAVY BOARD DOES
    YOU CAN TWEAK THA OFFENDIN EQ BAND THAS WHA THE PEAVY HAS BUILT IN THE BOARD ITS KILLER

    WE USE THE PEAVY POWERED BOARD TO FIRE UP THE MONITORS THEN BUSS THE MAINS OUT TO 2 MAKIE 300 WAYY POWER AMPS OR 2 PEAVY 3500 AMPS IN OUR RACK MY BORHTER HAS
    ITS PIN QUIET AND POTENT
    WHA IS KOOL ABOUT THE WAY I SET THE BOARD IS
    WE CAN STAND A FOOT OFF THE MIC AND NOT GO HOARSE SIINGING
    THAS WHA I PERSONALLY LIKE ABOUT CLEAN HEADROOM

    OUR LEAD SINGER HAD THESE ELCHEAPO SAMSON FEEDBACKY MICS 2 OF THEM ONE FOR SAX AND ONE FOR HIS VOCAL MIC IT TOOK ME A GOOD YR YTO CONVINCE HIM AT LEAST A 58 IS DECENT AND A INDUSTRY STD MIC SM 57'S AND SM58'S ARE MY FAVS
    PLUS THE LEAD SINGER LIKES TREBBLE
    SO WITH A MONITOR IN FRONT OF HIM HE WAS GETTIN EMMINENT FEEDBACK
    SO I USE THE BUILT FEEDBACK LOCATOR TO PIN POINT HIS OFFENDING FREQUENCY
    HE USES SOME DOD FLOOR PROCESSOR ON HIS MICS SO WHA WE DO IS NOT RREALLY ADD TOO MUCH EFX FROM THE BOARD
    TO HIS MIC TILL WE FIND THE SWEET SPOT
    IN THE EQ FOR HIM

    MICIN MY GUITAR CAB ON THE MARSHALL 4/12 SLANT I GO OFF THE NEAR EDGE AT A 45 ANGLE WITH A SM57 IT WORKS AND ITS FULL THEN ON TOP OF THE STAND I GOT A EXTRA CLIP I BUSS A SM 58 TO A TOP SPKR AND SEND IT FLAT TO THE BOARD I HARDLY TRIM THESE MICS AS WHA I SOUND LIKE AMP WISE IS WHA I WANT BUT USIN THE 2 MICS OR ATLEAST THA SM57 ON THE LOWER SPKR I CAN MAKE MY SOUND IN THE MAINS IF NEEDED I DONT LIKE REALLY MIKIN A BIG CABINETS
    LIKEMINE BUT I DONT PLAY AT EAR BLEEDING VOLUMES
    JUST ENOUGH TO FIND MY SWEET SPOT ON STAGE AND GET MY GUITAR FEEDBACK I LIKE
    SO ITS OK FOR ME
    I GOT A SEPERATE EFX RACK I USE ON MY AMP LOOP SO MY SOUND TOTALLY CONTROLLED BY ME VIA POWER SOAKS
    LAST WEEK I ONLY USED MY HEAD AND AMP NOTHIN MORE THAN A BUILT IN SPRING REVERB I HAVE IN THE HEAD THAT IS IT
    I JUST GO INTO THE AMP AND LIKE TO PLAY LIKE I DID LAST WEEL IN FRONT OF THE AMP

    HARDEST THINK FOR US IS DENO OUR DRUMMER USES A ALESIS DM5 ITS KILLER BUT WHA HE LIKES IS THA HUGE BONHANM BASS SOUND KICK ITS VERY BOOMY SO HE BUSSES HIS SIGNAL TO CHANNEL 4 AND WE TRIM IT DOWN FROM HIS MONITOR AS HE ONLY NEEDS TO HEAR THA MONITOR
    I DONT KNO WHY HE USES MIDI ON A NICE SET OF PEARLS BUT ITS HIM AND HE IS REAL GOOD
    HE USES A POWERED MONITOR SO I TAKE A SEND FROM HIS MONITOR AND FEED THA TO THE BOARD OR THE DM5 SOMETIMES WHO KNOS
    WITH HIM HE DRIVES US NUTS WITH THA COMPUTER LINGO

    I SWEAR MY GUYS MAKE US LUG TONS OF SHIT AROUND
    I DONT LIKE MONSTER SETUPS
    BUT WHEN I GOT 3 OTHER OPINIONS IN A BAND I GOT NO SAY REALLY SO I HAVE TO DO WITYH WHA WE BRING

    I ONLY BRING WHA I NEED FOR ME AND THE PA BUT THERE IS 3 THICK HEADED GUYS IN MY BAND
    SO I USE MY OPINION LAST
    BUT I LIKE MAKIN SURE TO HAVE A GOOD HOT VOCAL MIC THA I DONT BLOW MY THROAT OUT ON

    BUT PA WISE THA PEAVY POWERED BOARD IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR MOST CLUBS
    THE OTHER POWER AMPS AND EFX RACKS IS LUXURY OPTIONAL EITHER WAY I SET THA PEAVY BOARD USUALLY IN THE SAME MANNER WE USE A PEAVY OR MAKIE BOARD AND THE MAKIE IS UNPOWERED SO THATS WHEN I REALLY NEED THEM POWER AMPS
    IT SOUNDS TUIGHT WARM AND FULL BUT BOTH BOARDS DO SOUND GOOD AND LIKE I SAID NOT OVER KILL
    HEADROOM WISE I HATE STRAININ SO WE USE THE POWER AMPS TO WORK
    MAIN THING TO ME IS TO MAKE SURE A LEAD SINGER'S IS DOMINANT CAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS PULL AWAY FROM A MIC THAN NOT HAVE ENOUGH MIC
    HEADROOM

    IVE USED MY PUNY PEAVY AMP I JUST WOULD MIKE THE LITTLE BANDIT AND IT WAS GREAT WITH A SM57
    SIMPLE IS BETTER I DONT LIKE TONS OF EFX LIKE OUR LEAD SINGER USES HE IS GOOD BUT ITS ALOT HE IS GOOD WITH THE DOD THING

    HE DROVE US NUTS WITH THEM 2 FOR $49 SAMSON MICS SPECIALS

    VOCALLY GOIN HOARSE IS NO FUN FOR ME

    AFTER A GOOD OF THESE ELCHEAPO SAMSON MICS SHIT HE USED
    I KEPT LENDIN THE LEAD SINGER A FEW SHURES
    AND HE SPLURGED FINALLY CAUSE A BAD MIC SUCKS AFTER HE GOT USED TO MY SHURES

    AND SHURES ATE PRETTY MUCH STANDARDS OF INDUSTRY STAPLE OF MUSIC
    PROBABLY THE MOST COMMOM STAGE MICS

    YOU GET WHA YOU PAY FOR I LIKE THE BETA 58'S AND 57'S OR SM 57'S OR SM58'S
    THAS ALL I CARRY IN MY CASE IS 4
    GOOD LUCK TIM C AND GANG I WAS JUST RAMBLIN OFF THE WAY I SET UP TTHE AVERAGE RIG WE USE AND IN OUR BAND THERE IS 3 PA'S WE USE SO ITS HECTIC 3 DIFFERENT SIZE ONES FOR DIFFERENT CLUBS
    MY PA AND MY BROTHERS PA IS THE MAIN SETUP WE USE ITS GOOD FOR WHA WE DO MOST OF THE TIME THE WIDDOW LOADED SP2'S ARE PLENTY
    HE IS INTO PEAVY PA STUFF I AM INTO MAKIE AND SIMPLE SETUPS

    AS LONG AS I GOT PLENTY OF MIC HEADROOM
    I THINK A BAND CAN SOUND GOOD CAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS CUT OFF THE SHELF ON THE BOARD EQ AND VISA VERSA
    EACH PERSONS VOCAL PERSONALY IS DIFFERENT IM A SKINNY SHIT MY BROTHER IS 250+ LBS BIG LUNGS ALL THE GUYS ARE
    IM THE WEAKEST LUNG CAPACITY SO I LIKE MY MIC HOT

    THAS WHY I USE THE TRIM(UNITY GAIN) GAIN ON THE CHANNEL TO ADD THE POWER TO THE MICS
    I DONT KNO WHA WORKS FOR ME IT MAY BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE NEXT
    BUT I BEEN IN BANDS WHERE EVERYONES CHANNEL AND MIC WAS SET THE EXACT SAME
    AND A LITTLE SHIT LIKE ME WITH NO BIG LUNGS CAPACITY WOULD COUGH UP A LUNG SINGIN MY ASS OFF
    ALL CAUSE THE OTHER MIXER DUDE WAS WITH THIS NOTION THA EVERY MIC LEVEL HAS TO BE EXACT
    I AM ALWAYS A BELEIVER IN THA IF THERE IS GAIN TRIM ON THE CHANNEL USE IT FADER WISE ITS UP AT 0 TO +3
    AFTER YOU TRIM UP THA MIC AND NO FEEDBACK YOU CAN ALWAYS DROP THER FADER IN THA CHANNEL A LITTLE
    AND SWEETEN UP THE EQ AFTER YOU GOT THE HEADROOM
    SET ON THA CHANNEL MAIN CAUSE LITTLE SHITS LIKE ME
    GO HOARSE WITH THE MICS ALL SET SAME

    TOTALLY LOSIN THE VOICE BY NEXT NIGHT
    SO I SWEEP THE BOARD ITS FUN LOOKS COMPLICATED BUT ITS EFFECTIVE
    IM SUPER SKINNY AND DONT LIKE FEED BACK OR OVER TREBBLY MICS PERSONALLY BUT LOTS OF POWER SO I CAN STEP AWAY FROM THE MIC
    PLUS THE OTHER BAND MEMBERS LIKE MONITORS IN THE FACE DRIVES ME NUTS BUT THEYRE GOOD MUSICIANS ITS WEIRD
    LAST THING ANYONE NEEDS IS A HOT MONITYOR ALL WET BLOWIN A FULL SOUND IN A LOOP INFRONT OF THE MICS
    SO I ONLY IS EFX IN THE MAINS NOT THE MONITORS ALSO maybe a tiny bit maximum to add a feeling

    ADDIN EFX IN A VOCAL CHANNEL IS A LAST THING I WORRY ABOUT CAUSE THERE IS LOTS OF WETNESS SIGNAL WISE TO ADD FROM THE INITIAL EFX MAIN SETTING BEING ON HIGH
    Last edited by BLUELOU; 05-03-2004 at 11:00 AM. Reason: SCREW UP ADD
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  6. #6
    Forum Member Telebluesfan's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    FWIW - I don't advocate keeping the EQ at flat. I recommend it as a starting point. And I don't see a problem in trying to stay as close to it as possible.

    I 've seen WAY too many people make this too complicated and they'll stray far, far off from flat They'll pull out most of the frequencies and the sound suffers. Yes - every room is different. But essentially your true 'sound' is theoretically reproduced perfectly at flat. It takes very little adjustment to tweak even a difficult room, IMHO. I've seen guys get anal about ringing out the room and so dead set on having all the faders at unity gain that they're forced to pull out a significant amount on EVERY EQ frequency when they ring it out. IMO, that's silly - you lose all your punch. I'd rather deal with speaker/mic placement and overall volume than to pull out every freq on the EQ just to avoid feedback.

    I think it's better to keep the volume a bit lower and the EQ as close to flat as possible than to try to push the system to the edge of feedback 100% of the time - and relying on pulling out numerous frequencies.

    9 times out of 10 - the club owner isn't going to come over to you between songs and ask, "can you guys turn it UP?"
    Last edited by Telebluesfan; 05-03-2004 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Telebluesfan

    9 times out of 10 - the club owner isn't going to come over to you between songs and ask, "can you guys turn it UP?"
    So true!

    Tim C.:)

  8. #8
    Forum Member JM3's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    flat frequency response is really only good for sound replication in a controlled setting (think studio monitors) where you want to minimize a frequency response changes as you go through the mixdown, I use aflat response on my home stereo so it does not change the sound as it has been recorded. Not for live situations, where too many nuances affect the sound curve

  9. #9
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    I'm certainly no expert in this area, but I do find that it helps alot to have a monitor for the drummer, so that he can hear the rest of what's going on.

  10. #10
    Forum Member BLUELOU's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    TRUE DRUMMERS COULD USE MONITORS

    IM LOUSY AT DEFINITIONS IN TYPIN
    BUT SAY SOME ONE HAS EL CHEAPO MICS THAS WHERE THE EQ IS SO BENEFICIAL EQ IS SO BENEFICIAL I NEVER LEAVE IT TOTALLY FLAT IN NOTHIN ITS THERE TO HELP OUT

    THE REASON I START OUT LEVELIN THE BOARD FLAT ORIGINALLY IS SO I CAN ADJUST THE PA MAINS EQ TO THE ROOM OR CLUB AS NO 2 ROOMS ARE EXACT OR IS NO 2 MIC PLACEMENTS OR SETTINGS EXACT
    I USE THE CHANNEL EQ TO ADD FLAVOR FEELIN TO A MICROPHONE OR WHATEVER I CALL IT SHELF I DONT KNO WHAT YOU ALL CALL IT
    I EITHER ROLL ON THE SHELF OR OFF THE SHELF (EQ)WISE ON EACH CHANNEL THAS WHA I MEAN WHEN I SAY SWEEPIN

    IM BAD AT TECHNO LINGO
    BUT I CAN NOT STAND DRY FLAT SOUNDIN DEAD FEELING MIC SETTINGS
    AND I AM SMALL LUNG PERSON SO I NEED MY MIC HOT ALSO WARM EVERYONE VOICE IS DIFFERENT STRENGHT

    WHY SOME MUSICIANS SET ALL THE MICS AND CHANNELS AND EQ EXACT IS BEYOND ME

    THE MAINS EQS IS DIFFERENT ITS THERE FOR THE FINAL SOUND AS A TOTAL IT IS NICE AND SO HELPFULL AS NO 2 CLUBS ARE ACOUSTICALLY SAME

    BUT CHANNEL EQS ARE IMPORTANT FOR EACH PERSONS MICS AND KEYBOARDS OR WHATEVER

    OVER PROCESSED BANDS OR SUPER DRY MAINS ARE SOMETIMES TOO DRY OR OVER DONE
    TOO WET
    THAS WHY SIMPLICITY IS KOOL
    I WISH MY MAIN BAND WOULD SCALE DOWN ON PA EQUIP

    LMAO
    DONT NO ONE PERSONALLY THINK I AM SUCKY AT RUNNIN A BOARD I JUST AINT A GOOD TYPER OR IN THE LINGO TECH TERMS BUT NO 2 ROSES ARE THE SAME SAME GOES FOR ANY ROOM

    SOME OVER EQUED BANDS VOCALLY OR INSTRUMENTS ACTUALLY CAN GET LOST IN THE MIX IN A LIVE SOUND IM NOT TALKIN ABOUT RECORDIN SAME GOES FOR THAT BUT OVER DOING SOMETHING TO ITS EXCESS CAN BE TOO MUCH

    THEN NOT USIN THE TOOLS THERE IN THE BOARD CAN BE DEAD

    ITS WEIRD ON MY GUITARS I DO NOT ADD TONS OF EQ ON IT I DONT KNO WHY IT WORKS BUT ITS A MICED SOUND THE EQ ON MY GUITAR MIC IS PRETTY FLAT I DONTT OVER DO IT BUT I ROLL UP THE BASS FREQUENCY THAS ALL ITS EASY ON THE GUITAR CHANNEL
    I DIDNT BUY THE HUGE POWER AMPS I WAS USED TO MY OLD CS 800'S
    PRIOR TO THIS BAND LINEUP
    THE SP2'S ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH IN ABOUT ANY CLUB ROUND HERE OR GIG

    MY LEAD SINGER HAS THIS PHILOSOPHY THA EVERY CHANNEL SHOULD TOTALLY BE EXACTLY SET UP IN ALL KNOBS FROM EQ TO AUX SENDS ETC OR EFX LOOPS HE IS THE ONE ORIGINALLY WITH THE FRIGGIN CHEAPEST MICROPHONES ONE CAN BUY AT A DEAL ITS REDICULOUS THAS WHERE THE CHANNEL EQ IS SO KOOL IT HELPED HIS EL SHITO MICS WARM UP ADD BALLS AND SOUND OK PASSABLE
    YOU DO GET WHA YOU PAY FOR EQUIP WISE AND HE IS CHEAP
    THERE IS A NO NO
    EVEN HIS OWN PA SPKRS ARE WEAK OK I ADMIT HE HAS KUSTOM THINGS I KNO THESE ARE CHEAP
    OK INSTEAD OF GETTIN THE HEAVIER DUTY ONES FOR A LITTLE MORE $ NO GO FOR THE BUCKS AND LAST YR HE BLEW UP 2 EMMINENCE SPKRS IN THESE THINGS
    THEN I SWITCHED GEARS
    WISH MY BROTHER WOULD GET IN HERE AND TALK ABOUT ELCHEAPO SINGER DUDE
    AFTER HE BLEW UOP THEM BAD SPKRS ME AND MY BROTHER BOTH HAD THESE SP2'S BLACKWIDOW LOADED KICKIN AROUND ITS THE WORLD OF DIFFERENCE IN SOUND
    BLACK WIDOWS ARE GOOD SPKRS


    I TOLD YA I PLAYED WITH MUSICIANS AND SINGERS THAT DO THIS IT IS WEIRD

    SORRY IM BAD AT EXPLAININ THINGS GANG
    IM NOT A SMOOTH TALKER AND A SUPER SHITYTY TYPER
    I'LL SPLIT

    BUT I SAY FACTS OF LIFE LMAO
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  11. #11
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    tim c,

    i've been really busy the last couple of days, but i just wanted to share a couple things...


    what it really comes down to is finding the sound that sounds right to you. eq smee que, it really doesn't matter. you can call out frequencies all day long but it really comes to the in betweens. even with a 31 band eq, you will never really hit the frequency you need to cut.

    i know some people are able to call out the exact frequency, but i can't. and a lot of people aren't able to either. but you can find the offending frequency.

    that is what is causing your "squealing", offending frequencies. but before you start cutting a bunch of frequencies, run everything full out and find where it is feeding back. then cut those frequencies so that when everything is full up that there is no feedback. more often than not it wil be in the 200-800 hz range.

    then from there you will need to cut a couple frequencies to get the p.a. tuned.

    then you need to decide who is goimg to mix the band. cause with 4 or 5 voices and opinions in the band, there is going to be too many opinions. so decide who is "the ears", then say fuck the rest. there only needs to one person deciding on the sound.

    if you want to talk more on this, email me.

    chuck
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

  12. #12
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    Just wanted to let you guys know how much I appreciate your taking the time to post these helpful replies.

    Tim C.:)

  13. #13
    Forum Member BLUELOU's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    TIM C I GOT A SUPER EASY SOLUTION TO WHAT I DO TO MY LEAD SINGERS EL CHEAPO NOISY EQUIP IN A PA THIS IS IT ON THE COUNT OF 3 :fc YEA HE USES COMPUTERIZED PROCESORRS AND SHIT TOO MUCH CRASP IN A SIGNAL CHAIN
    SO I HAVE A BEER ! THEN I GO GRAB THE EL CHEAPO BEHHRINGER $200 AMP AND HERE IST GOES ON 3 :fc

    I USUALLY FEEL TONS BETTER AFTER HIS CRAP IS NOT WORKIN AND PLUGGED INTO THE PA
    ALL HIS $99 CRAP AND PEDALS ARE JUNK AND TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY HIS 2 SAMSON $49 A PAIR MICS SUCK SO BAD I WANT TO RUN THE THINGS OVER THESE ARE JUST LIKE SPEECH MICS TOTALLY JUNK NO QUALITY
    YOU GET WHA YOU PAY FOR
    AND I SEEN HIM DO THIS TO HIS WONDERFUL BEHHRINGER CONSOLE JUNKOMEISTER
    MAKE A HAPPY FACE ON THE EQ BANDS
    NICSE PHILOSOPHY BRIAN !!! GOOD DUDE LIKE ALL ROOMS ARE SET LIKE THAT

    THEN A BOINGY RING FEED BACK STARTS MODULATIN IN A LOOP OF TREMONDOUS FEEDBACK AS WE HOLD OUR EARS AND RUN FOR DEAR LIFE BEFORE THE BUILDING CRUMPLES FROM THER FREQUENCYS '
    HE HAS NO CLUE ON A BOARD REALLY THE BOY IS MENTALLY CHALLENGED I TOLD HIM TO SEE DR PHIL
    IM LOST FOR WORDS '

    SHIT HIS CHOICE EQUIPMENT WISE IS BAD TRUE BUT ITS HISTORY

    I KNO , MONEY IS TIGHT I DO WITH WH I GOT BUT I WILL NOT MAKE HAPPY FACE EQ SETTINGS ON A EQ STRIP SORRY
    LMAO
    :troll
    SINCERELY
    BLUELOU
    GODBLESS

  14. #14
    Forum Member moonpie's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    One night on a gig, after hearing the singer and the bass player(who owned the PA) fighting for weeks about the right sound, I reached over and turned every control on the board to zero.

    Anybody can bitch about what's wrong, only a few people can make it right.
    If you leave the house, you're just asking for it.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    Ya know,
    That singer has the right idea about starting with "flat" and then doing what needs to be done.

    Also, BLUELOU brings up that fucking EQ smilie that sooo maannnyyy people do before even turning the damn PA on.
    That crap pisses me off. In my experience, most halfway decent PA's in clubs with a couple Shure SM type mics will sound really good with that EQ set flat and a couple of minor tweaks on a couple of vocal mikes.

    If you're not starting flat, what are you starting with?

    Technically speaking, the human voice isn't even generating frequencies in the area of that "Bass" knob. At least not in any amplitude that a mic will pick up over the noise of a drum kit.

    Many people, even mentioned here, start by getting feedback then eliminating "offending" frequencies. That is totally opposite to what I do. Sound comes first. If it sounds good, that's where it should be set. If it feeds back then it's either too loud or mics and/or speakers need to be repositioned. Are they offending, or do they just not amplify as loud as you want them to?

  16. #16
    Forum Member BLUELOU's Avatar
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    Re: PA Set Up Help

    FWIW MY SIMPLE IDEA IS I START OUT WITH THE BOARD AND EQ SET FLAT FOR THIS REASON AS I TUNE THE PA TO THE ROOM HERE IS WHAT I LIKE TO DO B4 WE GIG ABOUT A HR AS PEOPLE MOVE IN AND BODIES DO MAKE THE ROOM SOUND DIFFERENT TOTALLY
    NO ONE MENTIONED THAT ALSO

    REASON I SET MIC CHANNELS FLAT IS SO AS I PLAY A LIVE CD OF US OR SOMETHIN IM FAMILIAR WITH I USE IT AS A REFERENCE THEN I GO FOR HOUSE ROOM VOLUME ACCORDIN TO THE SIZE OF THE ROONM
    THEN I CAREFULLY PULL UP EACH MIC ONE AT A TIME AND I DID FIND IN MY CASE THAT FOR SOME UNREAL EREASON I DO NOT NEED LOTS OF EQ ON MY 2 MICS I USE
    OK?
    THE OTHER CHANNELS I SWEEP THE EQ TO FIND THE SWEET SPOT THAT THE SINGER LIKES
    IT WORKS ITS HARD TO EXPLAIN BUT ON MY SHURE MICS I DO NOT USE TONS OF EQ ITS TRUE
    ALSO I LIKE A REAL TUBE PREAMP I USE
    MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE
    I USE A JOE MEEK ONE
    IF I NEEDCONTROL ON MY SIDETHE PA BOARD IS ON THE FARTHEST SIDE OF ME AND THATS ABOUT 10-20 FEET AWAY
    MOST OF THE TIME
    SO WITH MY OWN PREAMP I DO GET A GOOD HOT VOCAL SIGNAL THAT DOES NOT NEED ALOT OF EQ

    IM HONEST ON THIS
    THE LEAD SINGER HIS EL CHEAPO MICS ARE SHIT REAL SMAMSON SHIT
    YOU DO GET WHA YOU PAY FOPR AND I CAN TESTIFY THAT HE NEEDS LOTS OF BASS EQ TO MAKE IT NOT SOUND TINNY SHITTY
    IVE USED ALOT OF MICS LIVE TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE AND FOR WIW THE OL SHURES ARE WORKHORSES IN MY ARSENAL IM NOT SAYIN THE OTHERS ARENT GOOD BUT THESE ARE RUGGED

    MAINLY I WILL USE THE EQ ON THE MAINS TO FIND /PULL OFF THE OFFENDIN FREQUENCY I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HAPPY FACE LOOKIN BOARDS
    ALSO NO 2 SINGERS ARE ALIKE VOCALLY
    I STATED THIS A FEW TIMES


    EQ IS THERE TO SWEETEN UP A SOUND OR BAND ITS A TOOL THATS ALL
    ITS TOTALLY UP TO THE MICC PLACEMENT AND THE WAY MONITORS ARE PLACED ETC.......RIGHT
    I DONT NEED A MONITOR BLOWIN MUSIC IN MY FACE PERSONALLY
    SO I DO NOT NEED TONS OF EQ MAYBE I GOT A DECENT OL MICROPHONE OR MOJO I DONT KNOW
    TO ME THE MORE SHIT IN A SIGNAL CHAIN THE MORE TO SCREW UP EFFX WISE AND BAD QUALITY BIT EFX CAN ADD HISS ALSO IN A SIGNAL LIVE ITS POSSIBLE
    IM NO EXPERT
    BUT PA WISE I DO LIKE THE LAST POST BY TIM C I THINK IT WAS WHEN I GET PISSED I PULL DOWN THE CHANNELS
    BRO YOURE 100% RIGHT AMEN

    I OWN A PA AND MINE IS PNY IT DOES THE JOB ITS ENUF FOR ME TO DO A NEWYRS GIG THEN WE GOT BIG STUFF I LIKE SIMPLE
    OK IF I WANT A PARTICULAR ECHO ON MY VOCAL I ADD MY OWN IN A INSERT OR AUX SEND ETC ITS A IDEA I USE
    IM LIKE INTO SOUND DISPERSION AND LOTS OF POWERFUL HEADROOM WITHOUT FEEDBACK I CAN ALWAYS PULL DOWN A MAIN FADER TO LOWER THE WHOLE MIX BUT RETAIN A GOOD SOUND
    MOST OF THE TIME

    THE OTHER DUDE IN MY OL BAND LIKES TO ADD ALL THIS SHIT IN HIS CHANNELS LIKE DOD CRAP HERE VOCALIZERS THERE AND I HEAR HISSES AND ITS HARD TO HANDLE SO SOMETIMES I LET BRIAN FUK WITH HIS CRAP SOUNDWISE IN HIS CHANNELS THEN WHEN HE HEARS THE DIFFERENCE FROM BALLSY WARM HEADROOM WHERE YOU DO NOT STRAIN TO SING AND HIS EFX LOOPED NOISE HE WILL ASK ME SOMETIMES WHAT I GOT TO DO TO WARM UP HIS SOUND

    ALOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH GOOD MICS AND THE PLACEMENT HE USES A MONITOR INFRONTT OF HIM I DONT
    I HEAR HIS MONITOR FINE
    SO TO ME ONCE I ANGLE HIS MONITOR OFF ANGLE AWAY FROM HIM THE FEEDBACK AND CRAP LEAVES HIS MIC THEN I CAN ACTUALLY DO A LTTLE EQ ING ON HIS CHANNEL
    ITS UP TO HIM AS I CANT DICTATOR A BAND I USUALLY SET THE BOARD FOR THE ROOM GET MY SOUND HELP MY BROTHER GET HIS AND I AM HAPPY IF THE OTHER 2 BOZO'S WANNA ADD EFX AND DIRECT CONNECT SHIT TO THE BOARD WITH MIDI SHIT MORE STUFF = MORE NOISE SOMETIMES WHITE NOISE LIKE THA DOD THING BRIAN USES ITS A FAKE MACHINE SORRY
    BRIAN ITS PLASTIC ITS ON THE FLOOR AND NOISY
    ITS ECHO'S SOUND THIN PHONY AND NOISY BUT HE INSISTS ON USIN IT FOR ITS DOUBLIN THING AND ECHOS

    YOU DO GET WHA YOU PAY FOR IN MY BOOK

    THE STOCK PA BOARD GOT 20 BIT EFX BUILT IN SO ITS GOOD ENUF FOR MOST WHA I NEED
    I JUST USE IT FOR SLIGHT HALL REVERB AND A SLIGHT 50'S ISH DELAY ON MY CHANNEL ANF=D MY BROTHERS VOC MICS
    THE REST OF THE GUYS CAN USE THER CRAP
    IM OL SCHOOLED
    LESS IS MORE
    THE HAPPYFACE
    EQ IS NO GOOD AND OUTDATED & SILLY ITS A FABLE
    EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT FROM GIG TO GIG
    BUT SIMPLE APPROACH TO A PA IS EASY
    I JUST AM BAD AT EXPLAININ MY METHOD ON A COMPUTER
    I USE EQ TO SWEETEN A CHANNEL AND TUNE THE POA TO THE ROOM AND AS FOR FEEDBACK YEA I PUSH THE CHANNELS AS HOT AS I CAN TILL IT FEEDSBACK FLAT ON THE CHANNEL THEN TWEAK THE FREQUENCYS TILL ITS NICE SOUNDING IT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE
    THIS IS ONLY AFTER THE BOARD IS EQ SET VOLUME WISE BY A FAMILIAR CD TO THE ROOM AS MY REFERENCE IT WORKS FOR ME OR I CAN USE A TONE GENERATOR IN A RUT BUT THAS WORK
    CD I AM FAMILIAR WITH DOES THE JOB MAYBE ITS OLD FASHIONED BUT SIMPLE
    SINCERELY
    BLUELOU
    GODBLESS

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