Can we start this thread now?
:wav
Can we start this thread now?
:wav
have to go down history to be the first!
I just can't make up my mind between the two.:)
I think that the Custom Shop Time Machine Reissues compare very favorably to the old Strats as far as the bodies and necks are concerned, although some folks may not like some of the rosewood boards on the CS `60`s models as well as the oldies. I think the CS models sound pretty nice, but the best of the old ones usually have sweeter sounding pickups, IMO.
Yup, some of those reissue teles and strats are real nice guitars. Maybe lacking in some of the "played in" vibe, but nothing a few years of playing couldn't cure. :)
Last edited by Mr. Z; 07-26-2002 at 01:57 AM.
Still meaning to pick up a CS Strat one of these days. Tried out an older[1] Mark Kaye relic a few weeks back, neck pickup was crocked though
My first Fender Strat (after twenty year's playing!) was a '95 '57 RI. Best Strat I'd ever player, so I bought it for about US$950 in '96. It was a bit shop soiled, but I had to have that one, you know what I mean?
- Steve
1) Engraved CS logo as opposed to a transfer. Doesn't that make it pre '99 or something?
fuel: trouble maker, hee hee
Actually, to me, a good guitar is a good guitar regardless of era. I've played a lot of junky Strats from all eras. hank
.......... from the Land of Gibson
I don't think there are any.
The real vintage strats have that played in feel, the tone and the look, which the time machines have gotten close to, but they never can get that smell....you know the smell of a guitar played in bars for 30 years thats had beer spilled on it, the drummer puke on it, etc....
Actually I love the time machines, for around $1300 - $1500 you can pick one up on ebay and get a guitar that is very similar to an actual 50's or 60's strat and not have to go through all of the worries when you take it out to gig or jam with your pals.
some day id LOVE to have a relic strat. There is just something about an old beater guitar that can be beat.
Finally...a forum for REAL guitars.
I agree some of the custom shoppers are great guitars, and get really close to the vibe of a good vintage Strat. For me, that's the problem; they're close, but not quite there. Makes me want the real thing even more. It's like a burger without the ketchup; something small but significant is still missing.
These days I actually prefer AmStds; they're not close enough to make me want a vintage, they sorta exist as their own thing.
ymmv
/rick
The old ones....
I've got a '57 R.I. Strat, and plan on buying a '56 CS Time Machine soon. The '57 R.I. is a great guitar with super tone, and it is my #1. But, I recently had the chance to play a real '54 Strat, and there is a tonal quality there that the RI cannot touch. Whether it's because the real thing is all handmade, or the body is one piece ash, or the parts are almost 50 years old, I don't know. All I know is the tone of the real one is unique, and if I could afford it, I would own a vintage Strat over a RI or Time Machine without doubt. I won't be around in 50 years to hear what my RI will sound like then for a compare. That is, unless I'm over 100 years old, and that ain't too likely. Maybe in a few more years, I'll be able to buy a vintage Strat, but till then, the RIs and the Time Machines will do the job.
I find it frustrating that the price of vintage gear escalates faster than my pay raises in just such a way that they are always *this* close, but just out of reach
I've owned 5 Relic Strats 2 MIA 62ri Strats an 82 and a 2001 model an SRV Signature Strat and 3 MIM Fenders 2 60's Classics and a Jimmie Vaughan Sig Strat.
The Jimmie Vaughan was the least expensive under $500 new and it had the best neck of all.
None of the Relics sounded good with stock pickups. I sold all the stock pickups from the Relics and got Fralins. A big surprise was when I put the Fralins in one of the inexpensive MIM Strats the 60's Classics $480 new it sounded as good or better than the $2,000 Relics when I compared recordings I made.
SO I took this experiment 1 step farther.
A friend has a 62 Strat not a reissue a real 62.
We made recordings using the $480 60's Classic with the Fralins in it and the stock 62 Strat. We then took off the pickguard assembly from the 62 and put it on the 60's Classic made recordings and put the Fralins on the 62 and made recordings.
We couldnt tell the difference in the recorded sound of either guitar when the same pickups were in it. In fact the inexpensive MIM $480 guitar sounded the best with the Fralins in it.
I've played a lot of Strats over the years (new & vintage) and I think each guitar needs to be judged on its own merits. I've played some vintage dogs as well as some new dogs but, when the right parts come together in one guitar, something magical sometimes happens. A few years ago, after trying out hundreds of various Strats, I bought the best sounding example of a vintage & a Relic Strat I could lay my hands on....and my original '64 wins the tone award hands down. While my '99 Relic is a very good guitar in its own right, it just dosen't have the "magic" of my '64. Having said that, my '02 Nocaster is another magical guitar....just head & shoulders above all the Tele's I've played. Here's the current "magical" stable:
I haven't been impressed with the vintage gear I've played.
I had much the same experiance with my JV as Marcondo; the neck is amazing. Superior to the LE 35th anniversary custom shop strat I had for 10 years.
I've had a '54 reissue and a '57 reissue and didnt like either one. and I even tried the '57 with Fralins. But I offed those and got a '69 reissue w/Abigail pups and I love it (through a Marshall 50W) except for the small frets. So Im done with reissues and signature models. Im looking into vintage next.
I have 3 strats, a '57 reissue from '82, a '62 reissue from 86 & a CS '60 reissue. The quality of the pickups on the Cust. Shop are undeniably the best. The '57 was not well made at all, even though it was in the Fullerton factory. I have still not found the perfect strat. Even some masterbuilts haven't floated my boat. I'm still searching. Yoou have to play them all to really find the right one. In the meantime, I'm sticking with Tom Anderson Classics & Drop Top classics.
RIs are great, custom RIs are EXCELLENT! Vintage is vintage, new is new, but Fender has made very accurate reissues (don't you just hate that word, "accurate?"). All are great. If you're willing to put in the playing time to age it yourself then super.
I stopped typing because I don't know where I was trying to go with this post...
I'd agree, the re-issues (from the Custom Shop) are really well done. The detailing is excellent, wood is very good and Abigail Ybarra's pickups are closer to the real deal than anything Gibson's done yet - including Burstbuckers!
Don't you know that it's a fool that plays it cool...
The Strat thing to me is bizarre to say the least. I have played vintage stuff that sounded flat. I have played vintage stuff that sounded ungodly...but the exact same hold true to the custom shop stuff I have operated! Is it a pickup issue? sometimes I wonder. I do know that alot of the older Strats have rewinds and are misrepresented. Seems like the old pickups have "weakened" and thats why they sound so sweet! I like all of em to tell the truth. Really don't like the current production line Fender stuff though. Any thoughts?
I like the production like for the quality. Fender is much more consistent in setup, fit, and finish that Gibson's production line equiptment is. The C.S. guitars are great, from both companies. I'm REALLY digging my new strat. I've probably played it a couple hours already today. The LPs have gotten a few hours today as well. Master Built instruments are just incredible, they have soul. I'm excited because I can get the Buddy Guys tones off of "Sweet Tea" that I couldn't get before. I guess what I'm saying is that I like it all! :)
Man it just wouldn't be a real thread on vintage vs reissue without Vaughn C posting a picture! I got one too:
One is a "real" Strat and one is a "relic"-I am sure the Fender afficiandos will have no trouble telling which is which. I can tell when they are plugged in too because the relic sounds twice as good. But there is something about the old guitars I just like. But there are a couple of things about them I don't like-one is price and the other is price. I think some vintage guitars are great and some vintage guitars are crap-I think some reissues are great and some reissues are crap. I liken the argument of vintage vs reissue to the old which came first the chicken or the egg debate. No real definitive answer and it don't mean squat anyhow because no matter how you cook 'em chickens and eggs are still delicious....
Last edited by Houndog; 07-27-2002 at 02:30 PM.
Your Fiesta Red one is vintage. You knew that, but I'm just clarifying it for everone. The screw on the FR one is lower, and the rosewood has a nice amout of orange streaking in it. You have my complements on keeping it in such nice shape, most people really abuse them. :)
. . .As close to "The Magic # 1959" is best, IMHO. But when it comes to Fenders, I think the new stuff is actually "more better." In Fender products, I DON'T like a 7.25" fretboard radius, I DON'T like vintage frets, and I DON'T think a lot of the original pickups sound very good. It's not uncommon on a Vintage Stratocaster to have 1-2 of the three pickups NOT sound good, which sucks. Five years ago I went to the Arlington Show with $6K in my pocket - my mission was to buy a Vintage Stratocaster. I played ~75 of 'em, most of them accoustically. A few of 'em "made the cut" to be plugged in. In the final analysis, NONE of 'em were worth the extra money differential between what I owned at the time (a Frankenstrat) and what they would have cost me. I'm STILL waiting to be blown away by a vintage Stratocaster, and I honestly hope someday to find one that I just GOTTA have! Until then I'll just happily make due with my three Franken-Mules, adding more to the stable, tinkering, and selling as my whims prevail. . .Fenders are just so much less SERIOUS than Gibsons. . .
Trent,Originally posted by trents111
The Strat thing to me is bizarre to say the least. I have played vintage stuff that sounded flat. I have played vintage stuff that sounded ungodly...but the exact same hold true to the custom shop stuff I have operated! Is it a pickup issue? sometimes I wonder. I do know that alot of the older Strats have rewinds and are misrepresented. Seems like the old pickups have "weakened" and thats why they sound so sweet! I like all of em to tell the truth. Really don't like the current production line Fender stuff though. Any thoughts?
This February, I picked up a 2001 NOS Inca Silver '62 RI. I wouldn't part with this guitar for all the tea in China. The pups ring like a bell. Congenial & informative Fender Rep, Mark Davis (TDPRI), said the pups on the Am Vintage '57s & '62 RIs are wound at exactly the same specs. Reason being, when Fender opened up the pickups on vintage '57 & '62 Strats, they found their numbers to be all over the place; no consistency at all. 'Dunno, but this probably had to do with the human factor variable involved in whomever was doing the winding(?). For instance, if Herb had a Sunday picnic hangover, or if Marge lost at Bingo the night before...they might not have been up to snuff that day. :) Moreover, it seems everything pre-CBS can vary, greatly; not necessarily a bad thing, tho. Gives Fender its personality!
Otherwise, I have had two other '62 RIs; an '86 that was nothing special and a '96 that had great tone (should've kept). Also have a 1993 '57 RI that couldn't be any better if it was made during the first six days of Genesis. ;)
Yeah but Gibsons can't take a joke either....Originally posted by Joe Ganzler
. . .. .Fenders are just so much less SERIOUS than Gibsons. . .
But Epi's can! :lol2
My own take is that vintage gear in general is hugely overrated, and I made my living by dealing in it for years.
It's collector stuff, not player stuff. The new MIA Fenders are simply better made with better materials. People don't realize how cheap and disposable old Fender gear was intended to be and how unkind the years are to it, even in storage.
I've retired all my vintage gear long ago, so it sits in the closet appreciating obscene amounts of money.
Are you talking strictly vintage Fender gear? I think it would be a tough arguement to say that '50s LPs have been surpassed by RIs. Oh well, another forum maybe... ;)
:lolspin :rofl :lolspinOriginally posted by Bongolation
I've retired all my vintage gear long ago, so it sits in the closet appreciating obscene amounts of money.
> Are you talking strictly vintage Fender gear?
Well, I was then.
> I think it would be a tough arguement to say that '50s LPs
> have been surpassed by RIs.
I dealt more in them than in Fenders and saw a lot of pretty junky '50s Les Pauls, but some OK stuff. I think the best ones I saw were really the Specials. The current quality of Gibson is so incredibly awful and overpriced that I can't believe it. I don't know that the old ones weren't as sloppily done, but they weren't so stunningly overpriced, either.
I went down to buy a LP Standard Plus, which was around $3700 MSRP. I went through every one in the store and didn't find one that didn't have gross QC problems, and I mean blatant, stupid, negligent flaws that never should have left the factory. I'd say that at least 95% of bound Les Pauls have the purfling put on wrong, just as one example. Of course, so did most of the vintage ones.
The thing about vintage Fenders that I notice is just that they were cheaply made to begin with, with poor plating, cheap hardware, cheap wood (which can be fatal in a neck after a couple of decades), etc. They were never intended to be instruments for the ages. They were inexpensive VolksGuitars.
The new MIA Fender instruments are really much better. Better hardware, better wood, better plating, more consistent, more durable, etc.
Last edited by Bongolation; 07-27-2002 at 11:21 PM.
"I'd say that at least 95% of bound Les Pauls have the purfling put on wrong, just as one example. Of course, so did most of the vintage ones. "
WTF are you talking about???
I was wondering the same thing. "purfling"??!!
He means the price tag -- lol.
"Purfling" is the proper luthier's term for inlaid bindings.
That's great; now please define 'Bongolation'. :smokinOriginally posted by Bongolation
"Purfling" is the proper luthier's term for inlaid bindings.
As one Jamaican of my acquaintance termed it, the activity of (and resulting racket from) playing bongos!
"'EY MON! Stop yall dat bongolayshan! Me tryne sleep!"
Until the repetitive stress injuries sidelined me, I did a lot of hand drumming.
Bongolation, just a word for the wise. This board it FILLED with LPFers, a.k.a. anal vintage homos, and talking down about '50s LPs is deffinately one of the seven deadly sins. Just so you know...
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
