SWR Blows Dog Chow.

[davey]

Several years ago I bought 2 used SWR cabs and I completely loved them. The sound quality was leaps and bounds beyond the Ampeg, GK and Sonic cabs I had used in the past. About 3 years ago I decided it was time to upgrade to a new head (prior to this I had been playing a GK800RB and a couple of Seymour Duncan Bass 600s- Great amps, they're just old now)and gave the nod to the SWR Bass 750. That thing sounded phenomenal, and had headroom to spare. To make an excessively long story short(er), the SWR Bass 750 blew up, and eventually took out all 4 10s in my GoliathII, SWR made me pay full reconing fees on one speaker, parts + shipping on two others, and did repair one for free. AN SWR AMP BLEW UP AN SWR CABINET? Did I mention the thing had less than 3 hours on it? And they still made me pay. They also made me pay for the discontinued name badges on the cabinets (mine were scratched up, I thought I'd like a nicer appearance and have new badges on them). I also asked for a black screw on cap to the banana jack input on the cab, and I was fortunate enough to get the last one in the shop... for either $8 or $13. The reason I bring up the badges and the banana jack input cap is that the person on the phone insinuated that they would comp me those items, as they were discontinued parts for old products, and he felt bad about my SWR head blowing up my speakers.

When I got the head back from the SWR authorized repair facility it kept popping fuses, which I returned it for 3 times. Each time there was no reason it was popping fuses. I asked to replace the head, which they would not do. The salesman from the store where I bought the head really felt bad and gave me a choice, wait a few months to order a new head and exchange it, or give me full price paid +$200 for a brand new, in the box SM-900. I should have stayed far away from that company, but it was a hella deal. Up to Oct, the head had been in for service 3 times in the past 2 years. Once because the fuse sat too deep in the fuse well, and the cap didn't make contact with it. Once because the LED just "stopped working". (I had it replaced with a blue LED like the Bass 750!!) And once because the XLR out didn't work (and learned from the tech that it was wired completely stupid.)

In October, I had volunteered my rig to be in the backline for a "big" show ('big' in the local scheme of things). During the first band of the weekend my big bad 900w bass amp fell deafeningly quiet. The mains fuse had blown. I looked like a clown. When I took it in, there was nothing wrong. It was fine for 2 months. This past weekend same thing happened. Fuck SWR. Lucky Fender inheriting that mess.

[Telebluesfan]

Either you have incredibly bad luck - or we're not getting the whole story here.

Amps seldom 'blow up' speakers without a significant amount of operator error - things like excessive clipping, improper gain, overdriving speakers beyond an amp's true power capabilities, etc.

And I really don't understand how the 900's mains' fuses could blow and then be totally fine when you 'took it in'. Did you replace them? Or did you experience a thermal shutdown? It could be a simple matter of allowing proper air flow. I know my Workingman 4004 model was 'notorious' for having thermal shutdown problems but I take just a little care to ensure that the heat sinks have plenty of room for air circulation and I've yet to have a problem. I'm religious about trimming my gain based on my EQ settings (which can change the proper gain setting) prior to playing and I never run the volume past 11 O'clock. I've been told by a very reputable cabinet maker who I trust and respect immensely, that if you have to run your volume more than halfway, you need a bigger amp.

Just my :2c , but this sounds like a troll/hatchet job on SWR.

[paparhino]

Pardon the stoopid question, but were there any impedance issues at hand? I had a buddy do the same thing. (well, a similar incident) His impedances were screwy. ran an 8 ohm cab and a 4 ohm cab off a bass 750, then wondered why it always overheated and failed...duh, Not good.

Just a question is all.

[doc540]

I'm just enough of a dumbass to believe anything and everything paparhino says.

Farrrrgin bastages!!!

[paparhino]

???? It was a true story. He asked me for advice. He said it had 2 4 ohm outputs. So he effectively plugged one into the 4, and one into the 8... to me that didn't add up. If he had run 2 four ohm cabs, he'da been fine, as the amp can operate at 2 ohms....but something logistically is screwy with one 4 and one 8, or am I daft?

Hence my query about impedance...heck, some peeps think it's ok to use guitar cables as speaker cables...not to insinuate that is the case here AT ALL, but some wierd anomalies do creep into the equation...

fargin dumass!

v:O)

[davey]

Nothing but a G&L L2000 plugged into the active input of the SM-900 plugged into a Big Bertha (2x15 4ohm) thru the bridged output (supposed to be capable of handling 2ohms). Preamp set about 10:00, master about 9-10:00, bass about 1:00. Nothing fancy, not pushing this thing to the extreme. The first time the SM900 blew it was really hot, but the thing had only been running for an hour at most before it blew- and that's why a fan is built into those amps. When it blew last weekend it wasn't as hot, but it hadn't been on quite as long. Granted, the amp is in the bottom of a 6 space SKB rack, with a Fuhrman power supply above it, and a Korg tuner above that. That being said, the amplifier should be designed to work inside a rack case, with the majority of the space around the unit free. (I mean the depth of the power supply is half as deep as the amp, and the tuner is not as deep as the power supply, the amplifer is taking up the most space in the rack case.

Let me also clarify about the Bass 750, it didn't just blow the speakers in the Goliath cab, the entire power section of the amp fried, filling the air with acrid "electric smoke" and making the amp emit a full force "BZZZZT" for a second, then nothing for a second, then another full force "BZZZZT" then nothing for a second, and it still did it when I put on the standby switch. That's what killed the speakers. The fan had been running on the amp (you can turn the fan on/off- but it will automatically engage when it reaches a certain temperature- neat little recording feature). I don't remember what the volume was set at, but it couldn't have been loud, the band was 1 guitar, bass, drums, and a singer singing thru a Peavey TNT bass combo amp sitting on the floor. That amp had completely failed, and was ostensibly "fixed" by the store where it was purchased (an authorized SWR repair center), but still kept popping fuses.

I can understand just getting an amp that's a lemon. It happens, but I would expect the company to own up to it and take care of the customer and MAKE IT RIGHT. SWR did not do that. In this case, I was playing bass in 2 bands, and I was short my head and one cabinet at the start of summer festival season, and SWR did nothing but be difficult about replacing/repairing the speakers blown up by their amp.

Because of the exemplary experience I had with the SWR cabinets I've owned, I had enough confidence in the company to look past that and purchase (put MORE money down) on another SWR amp, which has been completely unreliable, although not as catastrophically unreliable as the first one. If you think this is about trolling, see how happy you'd be with $3,000 worth of a bass rig that you have to bring extra fuses or a spare head.

For the record, for the 6 or so years previous to the SWR amp purchase I was using 2 Seymour Duncan 600w bass amps that were made some time prior to 1988, one of which was a total basket case when I bought it. During those 6 or years, until the end of that time period, I had one problem with one amp, a jacket got caught in the amp fan. I decided to get a new amp when the amp started sounding "saggy" and didn't have the snap it once had, but it was 15 or so years old, sitting on top of a bunch of 15" cabinets rumbling away at 50hz. That's reliability, not owning the thing for around 2 years, and 5 visits to the tech, twice for the same issue.

Maybe I woudn't be so bitter about it if they would have gotten things straightened out by not having me dump around $250 in re-coning fees and around 15 lost gigs, instead of sending me a T-Shirt, a Hat and 2 stickers. Then to get another lemon of an amp... I love the cabinets, but the electronics...

[davey]

Originally posted by paparhino
???? It was a true story. He asked me for advice. He said it had 2 4 ohm outputs. So he effectively plugged one into the 4, and one into the 8... to me that didn't add up. If he had run 2 four ohm cabs, he'da been fine, as the amp can operate at 2 ohms....but something logistically is screwy with one 4 and one 8, or am I daft?

fargin dumass!

v:O)

If the amp is capable of going down to 2 ohms, one 4 ohm cab and one 8 ohm cab would run, as that's 2.67 ohms. If the head had 2- 8 ohm outputs, and the minimum impedance were 4 ohms, that would have been bad.

Check the SWR Product Manual for Speakers at: http://www.swrsound.com/products/own...procabs_om.PDF

You'll need Adobe Acrobat. Check out Page 18 of the manual (page 20 of the Adobe document) One of the easiest to understand guides to impedance matching. Print it out and keep it handy!

[doc540]

..."but I would expect the company to own up to it and take care of the customer and MAKE IT RIGHT."

Damn straight!!

[paparhino]

Ok Doc, I get what yer sayin. I guess I misunderstood how these impedances worked with that cab situation... but seriously, this kid named Andy from a band called Belisama had a VERY similar problem with a 750. I had suggested to him to run just one 4 ohm cab, because his was going into thermal shutdown repeatedly... I admit my understanding of impedance isn't totally up to par, but I do know that sometimes amps can be finicky about what they're asked to do... hell, I own the lowest of tech, an old 70's SVT, that asks for 4 ohms. That's all I ever give it...I know tubes are a different story and not as forgiving as s.s., but I think you know what I'm sayin....

I can't attest to what Andy's success or subsequent failures were past our correspondence, as the band had broken up...

Thanks for the clarification on the impedance thang. You learn new stuff every day.

Thumpa thumpa thump thump thump.

[Telebluesfan]

With a clearer picture of what happened - via the details you provide in your second post - I'd say you're squarely in the right with your anger on this Davey. I wasn't trying to jump down your throat or anything - but I'm also one who is leary of jumping on the 'these guys suck' bandwagon too. I dealt with SWR before they were Fender and had great customer sevice from them - I'm really surprised they handled your situtation poorly and I'm really surprised you got a second lemon.

BTW - I've also had to 'try' to deal with their customer service since Fender picked them up. Forget it - their is NO customer service now it seems. I spent an hour and a half on the phone without speaking to a single human being and finally gave up waiting. I fixed the bastard myself in about the same amount of time I'd spent on hold.

[davey]

As with anything on the internet, you have an obligation to be skeptical when someone strongly presents something. This is something really far out of the realm of believable. For one reason is that it is really happening, that I've owned two brand new amps right out of the boxes that were duds, and secondly is that I let it happen, I had a really bad experience with the company, their customer support and their product and still I bought another amp of theirs.

Looking back, it wasn't a bright move to get another SWR amp, and I don't recall what I posted on Harmony Central, and what the other posters have mentioned (not that I would count on HC reviews for anything but "one other thing" about a piece of gear-"As with anything on the internet, you have an obligation to be skeptical" to quote myself). But just having the headroom and that wonderful tone that the SM900 is capable of was kind of blinding. Besides that, it was the best sounding amp in the room, and I had them order a brand spankin' new one for me. I opened the box.

I forgot one other visit to the amp tech that the tech reminded me about when I took it in last nite. The LED had stopped working out of nowhere, and although it was the tech's fault for misdiagnosing the problem, he had replaced the LED, but it stopped working again and the had to fix an intermittent ground problem, where he had initially assumed that the LED had failed.

Paparhino, this is just another instance of another SWR overheating within it's working parameters. The funny thing is that I bought the Bass 750 to run with both my Goliath II (4ohm)and Triad(8ohm), but I never got the chance before it blew- I did after it had been repaired. I went through one rehearsal with one band with my Triad, and got about halfway through another rehearsal with the other band and the Goliath before the amp blew. I'm no impedance genius, even though I used to have a healthy interest in Electricity and Electronics, I know about enough to know I need to look things up rather than rely on my knowlege!

Have a Happy and SAFE New Year's Eve guys!

[Grog]

Sometimes junk is junk, but If you take any amp outside of it OP peramiters it will not function properly. Enough said!
Happy New Years
Jam On!

[davey]

Originally posted by Grog
Sometimes junk is junk, but If you take any amp outside of it OP peramiters it will not function properly. Enough said!
Happy New Years
Jam On!

Junk is Junk, but you usually get what you pay for. If you pay a lot you expect that you get an amp that functions within it's specified range, sounds good, and confidence that you can take one head alone to a show without a backup.

If you don't pay a lot you can expect that the amp will sound lousy and may not work at it's peak efficiency, or may not work at all. If an amp is designed to work at 2 ohms, it should work at 2.67 ohms without overheating.

[Grog]

Originally posted by davey
Junk is Junk, but you usually get what you pay for. If you pay a lot you expect that you get an amp that functions within it's specified range, sounds good, and confidence that you can take one head alone to a show without a backup.

If you don't pay a lot you can expect that the amp will sound lousy and may not work at it's peak efficiency, or may not work at all. If an amp is designed to work at 2 ohms, it should work at 2.67 ohms without overheating.

I always take spare equipmemt to any gig and try to never go below 4 ohms. 2 ohms is to close to a direct short for me. But I do agree if you pay top dollar for a quality peice the quality should be there and it should be reliable.
Jam on!

[davey]

OK, so I've gotten the head back from the shop, and again, the tech said he can find nothing wrong with it other than it runs excessively hot. While the manual states that it is meant to run hot, it runs really hot- in other words not able to hold on to the handles of the unit comfortably. (He was running a 4 ohm load on each channel of the stereo) What the tech did is to adjust the fan to always run at a slow speed and when the temperature switch would initially kick the fan on, it turns the fan on a higher speed. The way the cooling system of the amp works is that air is drawn in the back and passed thru the amplifier and exits the amp on the right side (as you look at the rear of the amp). What the tech suggested is that I go to Radio Shack and get a computer cooling fan and mount it to the upper rail of the rack. I spent $20 for a 3" fan, had to drill two holes in the upper rail of the rack, but the fan mounts solidly, and the wires are long enough to attach to a plug that fits on the power supply and the excess is taped to the ceiling of the rack. From what I've worked with it (about 3 hours) it seems to be all right, but I need to see about getting a new amp without any extra money being put down on this.

[jiffyjammer]

Hey guys, help me out. I need a new bass and the more I look the more confused I get. Ive looked at Tobias, Warwick, Spector, but there all out of my price range. Now some name guitars end up being made in Korea or Bung------ Egypt. Any way I have pretty much narrowed it down to an American Deluxe Jazz V or American Deluxe Precision V. I play a strange combination, about 50 percent country and 50 percent jazz. Both of these basses are highly rated on Harmony Central. Users state that both guitars will sound like a jazz or p sound, that you can dial up any sound you want on either model. Is this true and if so why does Fender even make the two different models. Also for the sake of looking for used axes, I have decided to hunt for one or the other which has the 18 volt preamp. Does anyone know what year the 18 volt electronic package became standard in the Deluxe Series? I found a very nice 04 Deluxe jazz on Ebay but the owner says he thinks its a 9 volt system. Any advice or info would be appreciated.

[cre2403]

I have heard from a number of other bass players that SWR has gone down hill. It just doesn't measure up to the other amp makers out there in terms of sound quality and reliability.

My last steady gig, the house bought a new SWR and immediately took it back and traded it for a Tech 21. The Tech 21 sounded way better, and was completely reliable, getting constant use.

[FenderBender]

Hey guys, help me out. I need a new bass and the more I look the more confused I get. Ive looked at Tobias, Warwick, Spector, but there all out of my price range. Now some name guitars end up being made in Korea or Bung------ Egypt. Any way I have pretty much narrowed it down to an American Deluxe Jazz V or American Deluxe Precision V. I play a strange combination, about 50 percent country and 50 percent jazz. Both of these basses are highly rated on Harmony Central. Users state that both guitars will sound like a jazz or p sound, that you can dial up any sound you want on either model. Is this true and if so why does Fender even make the two different models. Also for the sake of looking for used axes, I have decided to hunt for one or the other which has the 18 volt preamp. Does anyone know what year the 18 volt electronic package became standard in the Deluxe Series? I found a very nice 04 Deluxe jazz on Ebay but the owner says he thinks its a 9 volt system. Any advice or info would be appreciated.

I have an American Deluxe V and I love it. The tone control does really work, and if I crank down the treble, it does get more of the P-bass tone.

I Googled Jazz vs. Precision and found several sites where people asked this same question. There is no consensus. The pickups are only part of the equation, because on the 4 string models the neck is smaller on a Jazz, but my on-line reading indicates the the Am Deluxe P-Bass V actually has a Jazz neck, and P-bass body. Also rosewood vs. maple (that age old question) plays a big part in the tone.

You need to play both the Jazz and P-bass to decide which one YOU like better, which one feels better, and which one has the tone that cranks your tractor, through the same amp.

Hope this helps,
FB

[davey]

Just because a 2.5 year old thread is dangling around the top...

I still own the SM-900. I have had no problems with it since about the time I last updated the thread. What have I done differently? I added a fan to my rack. Where the head in the rack would get so hot- the air in the rack was so hot, and the the amp itself would overheat- either going into thermal shutdown or blowing the output fuse.

The way the amp is designed is to passively draw air into the back of the amp, blow the air through the heat sinks and then ostensibly out a grate in the side of the amp. If the amp is in a rack, the air that gets drawn in is the air in the back of the rack enclosure. Also, the forced air exits the heat sinks towards the grate in the wall of the amp- but not necessarily out that grate. Remember the wall of the rack is at most an inch away from the wall of the rack- which isn't a lot of room to dissipate that heat. And then it gets sucked back into the amp again.

Here's the amp- the fan is in the center and the heat sinks are the long rectangular things.


What I have done is to mount a fan to the upper rack rail of the rack case. I just took one of the computer fans from Radio Shack, hooked the leads up to a plug, connected it to my power supply mounted the fan with a couple screws. What that does is it removes the hot air from the rack. I figured, if the hot air is taken out of the rack, cool air will be replacing it, and cool air will be drawn into the amp.



You can see I still have the fuses taped to the wall of the rack- "just in case."





It was really simple, just marked where the screw holes in the fan were on the rack rail, drilled them out, mounted the fan and plugged it in. When I power up the rig from the switch on my power supply, the fan automatically comes on. I could probably find a quieter fan that doesn't move as much air, but I kind of like the overkill.

[FenderBender]

Cool! you could probably make a fortune doing this mod for other SWR owners.