Large Diaphragm Condenser Mics

[pbradt]

I just bought a MXL V67G large diaphragm condenser mic to use in my project studio.

I've heard nothing but good reviews of this mic and I'll give my own when it gets here. When I have some sound clips that represent the mic, I'll post those too.

Needed something better for vocals, the Beta 58 was not cutting it.

[fezz parka]

A friend of mine has one of those. Runs it thru a little Bellari MP105 pre. A real improvement over a dynamic mic. Enjoy!

[GuitarG]

Here's is a good thread from over at the LPF regarding affordable condensors.
LPF studio mic thread

[photoweborama]

Ok, educate me. What will a large diaphram mic do over other Mics?

I ask because I've decided to sell some of my equipment. It's obvious to me I'm never really ever going to have a band, so why keep this stuff around. Not that I have that much, but I will have a few bucks to upgrade my recording setup a little and I was thinking of these mics.

I read LPF thread, but everyone just said how great they are and never exactly spelled out what they can do for you.

[Gravity Jim]

Photoweb: A large diaphragm condenser (LDC) microphone is a condenser mic with a reception diaphragm around' 1" in diameter. A small D would be generally anything with a diaphragm smaller than 1/2".

They're good for recording because they exhibit greater sensitivity than dynamic mics, and usually capture a wider frequency range with less coloration (for example, a condenser will almost always produce flat high end up to a much higher frequency than a dynamic mic).

Because of this they:
1. Need less pre-amp gain. So you can run your pres cooler and therefore introduce less amp noise into the recording.
2. Sound "better." That is more accurate on a wider range of instruments and voices.

This is all true of small D mics, too. But LDC's are usually an engineer’s first choice for vocals, for overheads, for strings, and so on. They also work well on horns, acoustic guitars and guitar amps (although there are lots of small D condensers and dynamics that work well in these applications, too).

Try to avoid the Chinese microphones. Pbradt is having good luck with his, but it is just that... luck. (No offense intended, P, I'm glad you got a good one.) Some of them sound fine, many of them do not, and the inconsistency is their greatest problem... you don't know if you're getting a dog or not until you buy it. If you can afford something in the $300 range, there are some excellent LDCs from Shure and AudioTechnica now that you can count on to sound good.

[fezz parka]

Hey Mark,

Gravity Jim has a great point about the consistency of the cheap LDC's. (Marshall, Octava etc.)
FWIW, Sweetwater is selling the AT3035 for 200 bucks. A great mic at a decent price.

[photoweborama]

So, which models are low cost, but decent? I was looking at an MXL because I can get one now, but if it's better to save up my money....

Also, how can you tell if you did get a good one?

I’m trying to get decent stuff at a budget price. I just ordered a set of headphones. My cheap Chinese side was telling me to get the AKG K-44’s and take my chances, but wanting a good flat set of studio headphones won out. I ended up ordering the Audio Technica ATA-40fs model. Literally twice the money.

It is so hard; I’m just so cheap….

[Gravity Jim]

I like Fezz's suggestion.... that AT 3035 is a GREAT mic for $200. Good for most male rock vocals, great on a guitar cab. and a very nice saxophone mic, too. Walks all OVER a Chinese mic for sure.

One thing you have to give the Chinese guys credit for... they forced AKG, AT and Shure to make some decent LDC mics at much lower prices.

[pbradt]

GJ: I did a lot of research in the Marshalls before I jumped in. A friend in Nashvilles uses a 603 with good results. Truthfully, the $80 I spenmt on the V67G was as much as I dared spend, given my current financial situation. I read the rec.audio.pro newsgroup (through google groups search) and I read countless reviews. A couple guys in RAP were raving about the V67G.

I know the Marshall stuff is somewhat inconsistent but I've also read it's MORE consistent (Mogami wire and so forth) than some of the other Chinese mics.

This was as much as I could afford. Again, I'll write a review and post a clip as soon as I have something presentable recorded with it.

It's going direct into am MBox, not the best pres but better than a Mackie. Thanks for your info.

On a slightly related note, do you mind if I email you about certain recording issues? I have some questions and I have some answers from my bud in Nashville but I want more than one opinion. Thanks.

[Gravity Jim]

Pbradt - feel free, sir. I'm always glad to help in those limited instances where I actually can.

[photoweborama]

Originally posted by pbradt
GJ: I did a lot of research in the Marshalls before I jumped in. A friend in Nashvilles uses a 603 with good results. Truthfully, the $80 I spenmt on the V67G was as much as I dared spend, given my current financial situation. I read the rec.audio.pro newsgroup (through google groups search) and I read countless reviews. A couple guys in RAP were raving about the V67G.

I know the Marshall stuff is somewhat inconsistent but I've also read it's MORE consistent (Mogami wire and so forth) than some of the other Chinese mics.

Question then. I'm limited in cash also. If I decide to go the same route, will you allow me to meet up with you to bench mark it against yours to be sure I got a decent one?

You don't have to say yes. I'm just another wacko on the Internet, so I'll understand...

[photoweborama]

Well it looks like I may not have to buy one of these for a while. The kid I work with has two AKG C3000's that he does not use anymore. He's thinking of indefinitely loaning me one.

[Bongolation]

Originally posted by photoweborama
Ok, educate me. What will a large diaphram mic do over other Mics?

I ask because I've decided to sell some of my equipment. It's obvious to me I'm never really ever going to have a band

Wait, you can't say this! If you can't get a band together, that means that I have no chance of it either, which means I'll have to sell all this overpowered gigging gear I've bought in the past couple of years! This is unacceptable.

The main thing a LDC microphone will do for you is require you have phantom power which, despite the name, is not an attribute of a comicbook superhero, but rather a nominal +48V going to the microphone from the mixer (or someplace). If you don't have that, you can't use one.

The quick & dirty explanation is that LDCs are active devices with higher sensitivities and detail than the typically more rugged, passive "dynamic" microphones, which are used for live work and studio recording where high SPLs are encountered, as in micing guitar and bass amps.

If you're doing something like male vocal with a weak voice, you'll be knocked out by the difference nearly any LDC made will have over the usual dynamics.

I've written a ton about cheap condenser microphones over on the FDP, Usenet and elsewhere, but one FDP thread specifically appropriate to your question has mysteriously been DOBed, perhaps by an immoderate followup post from someone.

If you want all I know on this junk, either wait for my page to get up (don't hold your breath), or I can call you when you're goofing off at work.

One of the interesting things to me is the improvement and potential for hotrodding the Oktavas show, along with cheaper sale prices. Over the past couple of years, I've corresponded quite a bit privately and in forums with microphone engineer Scott Dorsey, and a lot of the same stuff we talked about came out in his article the September issue of Recording magazine.

With your compulsion for modding stuff, you should love Oktavas. With a few substitutions, you can make these into pretty impressive units. Good ones are pretty impressive to begin with and the gawdawful QC problems Oktava has had in the past seem to be going away with more consistent access to components. Cosmetically, they're still often pretty rough, but in terms of sound and circuitry, they've become much better in the past year or so.

And they're dirt cheap, if you shop the Guitar Center sales - but that's not as cheap as borrowing some! Good catch! :)

[photoweborama]

Originally posted by Bongolation
Wait, you can't say this! If you can't get a band together, that means that I have no chance of it either, which means I'll have to sell all this overpowered gigging gear I've bought in the past couple of years! This is unacceptable.

Don't let me stop you, you don't have kids, remember... Your chances of pulling it off are much better than mine.

The main thing a LDC microphone will do for you is require you have phantom power

I'm OK there. I have a Behringer 802a mixer with phantom power that I use for recording.

passive "dynamic" microphones, which are used for live work and studio recording where high SPLs are encountered, as in micing guitar and bass amps.

So I should keep my regular AKG mics for amps then...

If you're doing something like male vocal with a weak voice

Well you don't have to tell EVERYONE about my vocal shortcomings!

With your compulsion for modding stuff, you should love Oktavas.

Does it show that bad?

[photoweborama]

The kid finally brought the AKG C3000.

I'm just coming off the flu and I don't feel well enough to even test it....

[chuckocaster]

hey photo,

if you've got the channels, or want to premix the signal going into your recorder. use a 57 in conjunction with a 3000. you can use it several ways, my favorite is putting the 57 in a close mic position, on or off axis, and then using a large condenser as a room mic at least three feet off the amp. gets a bigger tone due to the condenser having a larger frequency response. email me if you need more info or want to talk recording and mics.

[photoweborama]

I don't usually mic the amp, but I've been thinking about it with this new Vox amp. It sound so good.