Perpetually frustrated. No direction. Where to start?

[Jdice1980]

Hi there. Thanks for having me. I started with the guitar when I was 20. I'm now 43. At that time I was a bit stubborn in that I only cared about lead and being the cool guy ripping solos like the guys that inspired me to pick up guitar. You know the usuals: Hendrix, SRV, Clapton and particularly Gilmour.

So I learned the pentatonic and some links and enough to throw on a backing track and noodle away mindlessly for hours. I completley neglected the important stuff.. rhythm, learning to fret chords and how to play through a progression with competent strumming. Etc

I've not been playing steady for 23 years. I pick it up off and on and once I'm bored with mindless noodling again I put it down. But I'm retired (disabled) and have all the time in the world. I want to learn to be more competent with playing rhythm and more interesting stuff than just noodling. At my age I know I'm not going to become a complete and competent guitarist at this point. But I would like to be able to sit down and put together some melodies and progressions and make my casual playing sound more complete and competent.

My problem is I just don't know where to start. I have a pretty deep technical knowledge of theory and such. Just not how to apply it to the neck. The problem is knowing what i don't know. Unlike most beginners I am aware of advanced concepts like triads and arpeggios and chord tones and construction. I just dont have the technical ability to do it and it's hard to know where to focus practice. Strumming and physically making chords beyond the cowboy cords is hard for me. Its very hard for me to sit down and force myself to start at a very rudimentary level when I know the concepts for the more advanced stuff I just dont have thr physical ability yet and I need some direction on how to learn that.

[blackonblack]

My main advice: Play with other musicians. Play live. Your thoughts suggest you’re ready to become a musician rather than a lead guitarist.
That is the art form. To supply something for a larger goal.

[Tele-Bob]

You can talk about it, or you can play.

If you indeed do have a good knowledge of theory, all your questions are answered right there. Now it's time to apply it.

My first suggestion would be to forget you even know the pentatonic minor scale and start playing like an adult.

The pent minor has it's place, but as you've learned, it's an evil crutch that limits your playing dramatically. It's just too damn easy to flub over that major 3rd and get used to hearing the dissonance.

Start learning songs that use closed chord forms and require the use of the music theory you claim to know. If you find this boring, you might need to consider doing something else. Mahjong maybe? LOL.

[Offshore Angler]

Agreed on the pentatonic.

Focus not on notes and chords - but rhythm and syncopation. That's the beginning and end of all of it.

Learn to play Funk 49. Play along with the recording. Learn to comp chords on a song like Soulshine, and then learn to play the chords and rhythm to Kid Charlemagne.

These are some relatively easy exercises that will start you in the right direction.

But above all, rhythm and syncopation. Scales, modes, intervals, all that is secondary to the timing.

[MacBayne]

What style of music do you want to play? It makes a difference, especially with maintaining interest. Different styles also use different theories as their backbone.

Like blackonblack said, play with other musicians. As with anything in life, you will learn something being around others.

What other instruments do you play? It gives me something to compare your guitar playing to.

You say that you understand theory and have deep knowledge of theory... but it sounds like you are limited to pentatonic scale... also, triads and arpeggios are not really advanced knowledge. Advanced knowledge is knowing the difference between an A# and Bb. Yes, there is a difference.

There is nothing wrong with cowboy chords to learn rhythm playing. Cowboy chords ARE playing rhythm.

The best way to work on rhythm is to play along to a recorded song. If you want to play without a recorded song, a metronome is super.

[Offshore Angler]

...You say that you understand theory and have deep knowledge of theory... but it sounds like you are limited to pentatonic scale... also, triads and arpeggios are not really advanced knowledge. Advanced knowledge is knowing the difference between an A# and Bb. Yes, there is a difference....

Well, yes and no. They're the same pitch, but depending on the key signature we choose to denote them differently. Plus, in the key of F major or D minor we write it as a B, not a Bb, but it's the same danged note on the keyboard or fretboard. And since we're all adults here, Bb is the first flat as you move counterclockwise on the circle of fifths, so unless you're in the key of C if you see a Bb it's really a Bbb which makes it an A.

Or just play in the key of Cb and only use the black keys. That's theory at it's finest.

Look, I figure I know as much theory as the next player but in reality, your ears tell you what works. It's not that you know a Bb is played, it's that you realize that you might want to solo using the F major scale when the Bb is used in a chord in the key of C. But unless you have the ears to hear the flat seven and the dominant feel you wouldn't know to do that. And then you need to know which major scale only uses one flat after the cleff.

But it comes down to your ears and experience. Ears and years?

And finally, you can play the wrong note at the right time and nobody will care, but play the right note at the wrong time and it will stick out like a sore thumb.

How do you get good at it? You practice with a goal. You play along with recordings and don't concentrate on notes or scales, concentrate on nuance. Take a player you want to emulate and then tear one song apart until you really get it not only getting the notes, but their style.

Remember- notes come from your left hand, music comes from your right hand.

Everyone takes from everyone else and builds on it.

Chuck

[OldStrummer]

I'm going to echo MacBayne's comments, mostly because I fall into the trap of trying to be the "everything" guitar player. I mean, who doesn't admire the guy at center stage that's making awesome licks, fills, and tones come out of his rig? I confess that in my youth I dreamed of being the rock star everyone admired and who groupies threw themselves at.

Then I got real.

While I've been able to build up a "library" of licks and fills, as boring as it may seem, the real business end of my guitar playing is being the rhythm guitarist. When you join in with a capable drummer and bass player, you can become an extremely solid foundation for the pyrotechnical soloing. When I think of a rock-solid rhythm section, I think Creedence Clearwater Revival. Oh sure, John Fogerty was the songwriter and central figure, but his brother, Stu, and Doug gave him the "engine" from which to drive.

Having been a bedroom player and soloist for most of my playing days, I can recall spending inordinate hours just playing leads. Oh, I got better at fast runs and techniques like hammer-ons and pull-offs, but after a while, I wasn't playing lead guitar, I was just noodling.

So, for the past couple of years I've started playing at open mics. Most of the time this requires me to play acoustically, and accompanying a song rather than play the song. And let me tell you, if I'm out of rhythm, the song turns into crap. It's harder than it seems.

Now, I do a lot of practice combining rhythm, vocal and short, complementary leads that embellish a song and aren't THE song. One side benefit of doing this, I've found, is that my singing voice has vastly improved. Because that's what the audience wants to hear. Not my lightning fingers impressing no one but me!