Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Dealing With the House Sound System

  1. #1
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,928

    Dealing With the House Sound System

    I'm a relative newbie to live performing, so I'm still winding my way through the ins and outs of getting on stage.

    When I'm practicing at home (I'm a solo player), I usually sit on my comfy sofa, and I mostly play unplugged. Sometimes I use an amp, but my focus is generally on technique, making sure I have the chords, leads and singing in tune with the music.

    But it all changes when I take the stage. For example, last night I played at a small venue (seats about 60) which has its own in-house sound system. A very nice stage manager handles the mics, cables, stands, seats, etc. So, because I play seated at home, I chose a stool, and then plugged in. Youch! My guitar was set too high, so I had to tone it down. OK, no problem, and quickly set to volume and tone I liked. Then I started. About two choruses into my first song, I realized I couldn't hear myself! Yes, I was singing into a microphone, but there was no on-stage monitor, and I actually couldn't hear the words I was singing. Worse, I couldn't tell whether I was singing in tune or not.

    Given time constraints, I couldn't stop and ask the sound guy to work with me, so I muddled through my set, all the time knowing that I was likely missing notes (I'm not a trained vocalist!).

    Forewarned is forearmed. The next time I go, how do work with the sound guy before I'm given the "go" signal?
    Striving to be ordinary

    Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    18

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Are you playing on stage solo? I assume the stage manager is working for the house so can you go early and do a sound check? Is that correct? As far as playing and hearing yourself, consider using an In Ear Monitor or floor monitor speakers. Floor monitors are also called fold back speakers and wedges.

  3. #3
    Forum Member blackonblack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    point of reason between tacky and tasteless
    Posts
    1,263

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Lots of questions. What is the monitoring system? That may lead to a deluge of others.
    Always sound check before going live.
    Mark

  4. #4
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    my one and only time on stage, I could barely hear myself and apparently, neither could anybody else.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    18

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Do you plan to play there again?

  6. #6
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,928

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Quote Originally Posted by surfinbird View Post
    Do you plan to play there again?
    Yes. A good suggestion I received was before I start playing, strum the guitar and ask the audience, "Does this sound in tune?" (It should, because I just tuned it), that not only gives me a sound check on the guitar, but also on the mic. I could also ask the sound guy, "Turn up the mic so I can sing softly."
    Striving to be ordinary

    Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!

  7. #7
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New York Finger Lakes Area
    Posts
    8,462

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    The sound onstage is rarely perfect. You learn to deal with it. It's all part of learning the skills required to be a musician.

    In-ears are really no better than floor or flown monitors as far as the mix goes, but they do help keeping the bleed over at bay. I will warn you however, that there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING as difficult to deal with onstage than a bad in-ear mix. In-ears have a fairly steep learning curve.

    All that said, in-ears and wireless mics and instruments have completely changed stages for the better. No more tripping over stuff and setup and teardown is a breeze. We're lucky to have our own sound person and equipment trailer so yes, I am spoiled.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  8. #8
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Southeast Texas
    Posts
    692

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    What was preventing you from hearing your vocals, your amp volume or the front of house volume? In a small venue like you described, I can't see why the front of house would have to be that loud, especially for a one man act. When we first started playing 2 man shows (guitar, bass and vocal), we did a few open mic's where you just followed the prior act on stage, played our 3 songs and were finished. No sound check (maybe the first act got a sound check so they could set front of house levels, but we were never first).

    Once we started doing paying gigs, either as a 2 or 3 piece act, we bought a powered mixer and front of house and monitor speakers and I kind of mixed from on stage, making adjustments between songs as necessary. When I mixed for a full band, each member had their own monitor mix onstage, and I spent more time tweaking that throughout the night than the front of house mix, because if one guy turned up his amp, then the others couldn't hear the rest of the instruments as well. I always tried to keep stage volume as quiet as possible so the monitors could be heard. Having a drummer with an electronic kit really helped.

    In your situation, playing a small venue, even a 1 minute sound check before you start playing the first song would be better than what you went through. Perhaps you could work that out with the sound person before you go on stage. Tell your audience you are going to take a minute to get levels set, and play and sing a simple song so you don't have to concentrate on the performance, but can listen to what you are hearing. But as has already been mentioned, on stage sound is never going to be perfect.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  9. #9
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New York Finger Lakes Area
    Posts
    8,462

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Yeah, when you start playing live you soon discover the difference between a guitar player and a performing musician. In your home studio you are cozy and everything is under control. Onstage there are countless variables and distractions. No two halls are the same.

    You have to learn to go with the flow. Yes, strive for a good mix but I've seen a lot of guys who professed to be "professional" melt down in live mix situation.

    You need to develop a totally different set of listening skills to play live. Almost all new performers say "I can't hear myself" at first. So they turn up. Then the next guy turns up and so on and soon the mix is total crap and it just sounds like a distorted mess out front, nobody can hear themselves think and - bad show.

    The complexity of a live mix seems like it goes up Xn where n = the of the number of band members.

    Some shows - the sound just sucks and that's all there is too it. Adapt, improvise and overcome. I had to play a show last Sunday and the sound engineer was obviously in over his head. Just had to make the best of it.

    The absolute WORST THING you can do in a situation like that is have a meltdown. You just need to work through the issues as best you can. That's how you earn your bones and get noticed and start climbing the local ladder as a musician. On the other hand, going apeshiznit over the sound is guaranteed to never get you invited back.

    Can't count the shows where I struggled with hearing myself onstage and yet folks told me it sounded fine out front. You gotta trust the sound person. I look at it this way: I'm getting payed to play my guitar and the soundperson is getting paid to make sure the sound is good. If it ain't - not my problem.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  10. #10
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,928

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    The absolute WORST THING you can do in a situation like that is have a meltdown.
    Yep, this I know, either intuitively, or because I've gotten old enough to not really care whether the performance is perfect or not. I'm not perfect, so I can't expect too much from myself. But it was a little discomfiting when I realized I couldn't hear myself over the guitar. I actually joked with the audience about them hearing me better than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Can't count the shows where I struggled with hearing myself onstage and yet folks told me it sounded fine out front. You gotta trust the sound person. I look at it this way: I'm getting payed to play my guitar and the soundperson is getting paid to make sure the sound is good. If it ain't - not my problem.
    Chuck
    This is just a way to have some fun. I don't get paid, and neither does the sound guy, the MC, or the stage manager. We're a "listening club," and I've heard some truly awful performers play (which encourages me, because I may not be better than everyone, but I'm better than some). Everyone who takes the stage gets the audience's attention and appreciation. I actually sparked some applause during a couple of songs, which means they liked my playing if not my singing.
    Striving to be ordinary

    Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!

  11. #11
    Forum Member blackonblack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    point of reason between tacky and tasteless
    Posts
    1,263

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    A rule of thumb in monitor mixes: If you can’t hear a specific element, DON’T turn it up. Turn everything else down. Just like mixing, subtractive is better than additive.

    IE: if there’s an offending freq, don’t boost all the others, sweep the freq and decrease it.
    Mark

  12. #12
    Forum Member gibsonjunkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Bloomfield, CT
    Posts
    6,774

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    The last time I played out it was a long time since I had done it and I was nervous as hell. As I was playing, the microphone stand started slipping and lowering a bit at a time. Instead of stopping to fix it I just kept stooping more. The sound guy finally walked up to the mic and reset it... did I feel stoopid...
    "We catched fish and talked, and we took a swim now and then to keep off sleepiness." Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New York Finger Lakes Area
    Posts
    8,462

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    First rule of playing live: Never Stop
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  14. #14
    Forum Member FrankJohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bad JuJu Blues - Its Good for your Soul!
    Posts
    3,935

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    I am by no means an expert, or big league sound guy but........I have stayed at SEVERAL Holiday Inn Express's!

    If there are monitors, and there is a sound guy, AND there is time - you should have vocals in a monitor that you can hear. Maybe not perfect, but at least hear. Ringing out the systems can be funny - one player to another but again - it should be ......Close......Ish

    Although experience is a HUGE part of the equation, so is the equipment, the placement and yes......the performer as well. It all bounces off of each other.

    Hopefully, next time is better, and getting what you NEED is sometimes where you are instead of getting what you want.
    Kenny Belmont
    >:^{I)>

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    SW New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,658

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Most of my playing in the 60's and 70's no one had monitors, and the PA's were pretty muddy, (think 4-12 Vocalmaster). I never sang more than a dozen songs a night, but after agreeing to do the holiday season with a group with monitors, I don't know how we got by without them!
    I bought a set of 4 "Hot Spot" monitors and a Peavey PA head, not much by todays standards, but we had some idea of what we were doing. I later got a set of EV-12 floor monitors, and still have them, but of course, going unused like the rest of the dinosaur PA.

  16. #16
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ten miles from the Mexican Frontier, in Arizona
    Posts
    7,297

    Re: Dealing With the House Sound System

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    (think 4-12 Vocalmaster).
    Ah yes, Shure's notorious "Vocalsmasher".

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •