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Thread: Uh oh, that ain't good

  1. #1
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Uh oh, that ain't good

    no siree, bub, it ain't good at all.

    around 5 o'clock today, I started noticing that I was no longer chilly from the a/c. In fact, the air coming out of the register seemed to be the same temperature as the room. Over the next 2 hours, I've noticed a steady climb on all the thermometers (4 of them) around the house. As I was going out the door to get my take out, I walked around back. The outside condenser was making noise, but the output pipe was not cold and the fan wasn't moving. I went back in and shut off the thermostat to prevent the unit from overheating (it was radiating heat fiercely) and possibly catching fire.

    It's been raining all day, so it's nice and humid and we have 6 days with highs in the 90 starting tomorrow. I was gifted a window unit, so I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow morning. I haven't put one in a window in years.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Forum Member gibsonjunkie's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    That really sucks. Ours usually needs maintenance every Spring, and we usually don't realize that it needs help until it gets hot. Good luck!!! finding a service company when it gets hot is tough.
    "We catched fish and talked, and we took a swim now and then to keep off sleepiness." Mark Twain

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Oh, dang.

    It seems I've had the curse of faulty A/C put on me, as every home I've lived in since college has required major repairs/replacement of the HVAC system. Perhaps it's the cross I have to bear. So far, my current home has been the exception (knock on wood) as the unit was quite new when I bought the place, but I know it's only a matter of time. I have it inspected twice every year, and the techs are now making suggestions as to adding this, or replacing that. Ugh.

    It always happens at the worst possible time, too.

    I feel for you, Dan.
    Striving to be ordinary

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    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Dan, what kind of AC units do you have up there? I have family in Manchester, but down here in North Texas it's been 112 every day lately.

    Yeah, losing AC stinks - we depend on our central heat and AC a lot here.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

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    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    If the fan on the condenser unit wasn't spinning, it could be the "run capacitor". They are usually dual caps in one metal can, one for the fan and one for the compressor. Shouldn't be too expensive to change out that capacitor. If you do it yourself, just make sure you make note of which wire goes where, as the capacitance of the 2 caps will differ.


    Edit: About a year ago, the blower on one of my central units quit blowing air. I took the capacitor to a parts store and I think the replacement was around $13. The replacement was the right capacitance and voltage, but didn't fit in the pre-drilled hole in the housing, but since it's the indoor part of the system, I just left it hanging on the side of the unit. Blower started right up and has been running strong since then.
    Last edited by Michael Smith; 07-19-2022 at 11:41 AM.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  6. #6
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    our neighbor the HVAC guy tried bypassing the caps with a known good cap and the fan still did not start. He's checking into price and availability of the fan motor & associated parts. Hopefully know in an hour or two.

    Our system is the older "illegal" refrigerant R22, you can't buy them anymore. A new 410A refrigerant system is unfortunately not plug and play. You have to change all the innards that handle the refrigerant so it will actually be more than installing a new system from scratch because there is the cost of uninstalling the old one.

    Hah, just heard from him while I was typing. Found the motor, have it tomorrow. Patch the old system for now.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

  7. #7
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    That's good that you can get a replacement motor. Sometimes it's difficult to remove the fan from the motor shaft, but it sounds like you have someone there with the necessary tools and expertise.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    I don't do as much A/C work as I used to, and still have most of a 30# R134A bottle I bought a few years ago for around $100. A fellow I used to work with came in a couple of months ago with dead A/C and casually mentions "just what does freon sell for now?" I fixed his unit and charged it up charging him a little over what my cost was. Found out later the EPA has been strangling the supply since the new administration took over, a bottle is now over $500 cost! Seems they are trying to get us to use the new 1234yf refrigerant, O'Reileys wants $2450 for a 25# bottle!
    I still have about 10# of R-12 in a bottle, and a case of 14oz cans at home so my 93 F150 will always have refrigerant. Wish I had paid more attention, and bought a couple more bottles of R134a before the democrats took over!

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    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Propane makes a good refrigerant, but it's not recommended for home use. It's used in natural gas processing plants for chilling the incoming gas stream to get some of the liquids to drop out, if I recall.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    That's what the Germans used for years!
    Funny, Mercedes, and BMW cars were shipped here without A/C and freon 12 units were installed here.
    Being close to Mexico, a lot of folks were buying freon across the border, it was often mixed with freon 12. A friend borrowed some of my tools to fix his wife's A/C, when one of my mechanics used the gauges for another job, he pointed out the smell. He emptied the (Mexican) can into a bucket, and threw a match, yeah freon isn't flammable!

  11. #11
    Forum Member gibsonjunkie's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I don't do as much A/C work as I used to, and still have most of a 30# R134A bottle I bought a few years ago for around $100. A fellow I used to work with came in a couple of months ago with dead A/C and casually mentions "just what does freon sell for now?" I fixed his unit and charged it up charging him a little over what my cost was. Found out later the EPA has been strangling the supply since the new administration took over, a bottle is now over $500 cost! Seems they are trying to get us to use the new 1234yf refrigerant, O'Reileys wants $2450 for a 25# bottle!
    I still have about 10# of R-12 in a bottle, and a case of 14oz cans at home so my 93 F150 will always have refrigerant. Wish I had paid more attention, and bought a couple more bottles of R134a before the democrats took over!
    Freon was banned in 1996 - so you may want to blame Bill Clinton... BUT. We actually signed an agreement to ban freon R-12 in 1987 (Ronald Reagan was President back then).

    It's not like we haven't had time to make the adjustment.
    "We catched fish and talked, and we took a swim now and then to keep off sleepiness." Mark Twain

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    That's what the Germans used for years!
    Funny, Mercedes, and BMW cars were shipped here without A/C and freon 12 units were installed here.
    Being close to Mexico, a lot of folks were buying freon across the border, it was often mixed with freon 12. A friend borrowed some of my tools to fix his wife's A/C, when one of my mechanics used the gauges for another job, he pointed out the smell. He emptied the (Mexican) can into a bucket, and threw a match, yeah freon isn't flammable!
    Considering R12 FREON (type used in automobiles) boils at -29°C at 1 bar pressure, that story is a bit hard to believe.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Maybe you didn't know that both freon 12 and propane are heavier than air!

  14. #14
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Maybe you didn't know that both freon 12 and propane are heavier than air!
    And you understand how they diffuse through the atmosphere, right?


    The problem with Freon 12 is it makes its way to the upper atmosphere where UV rays crack it releasing chlorine that reacts with the ozone.

    Anytime you'd like to have a scholarly debate about the random motion of molecules in a gas I'm all in.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    The funny thing is, we're told that somehow the "winds" carry the heavier than air freon 12 (mainly to the south pole for some reason), where the chlorine destroys the ozone. They don't find any actual CFC's, only chlorine!
    I will tell you when an automotive freon 12 system is leaking at the evaporator, the floor below is where the concentration will pool. (I still have an old halide sniffer that we use to use back in the day).

  16. #16
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    The condensation you see is water, the evaporating freon cools the air and the water condenses as the vapor pressure increases. You may also see some refrigerant oil which I'm sure you know gets added to the system.

    Being the technician you are you surely know how the line form the evaporator will be covered with frost. Same phenomena.

    As I noted before, you CFC's are broken down in the atmosphere and that's the source of the chlorine. You could do a simple experiment at home to show this, but since chlorine gas is extremely toxic I would advise against it.

    BTW, the halide detector you used was looking for the chlorine in the CFC. The hot copper plate causes the CFC to disassociate and the released chlorine is easily detected.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  17. #17
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    Re: Uh oh, that ain't good

    The pool I spoke of is freon, not water, the point being freon falls down, (heavier than air).
    We've all been told how deadly to ozone CFC's are, (after Dupont's patent expired), what is not explained is why only chlorine is found, not CFC's. Seems if all these gasses are rushing to the south pole, not all would be broken down, if the source of chlorine is from CFC's.

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