https://www.google.com.br/amp/s/www..../amp/rcna21683
I wonder if there’ll be enough clean/green energy to power all those cars.
https://www.google.com.br/amp/s/www..../amp/rcna21683
I wonder if there’ll be enough clean/green energy to power all those cars.
Why don't they just ride unicorns?
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Originally Posted by phantomman
Why don't they just ride unicorns?
My opinion, precisely
Jay Inslee is a degenerate & a moral imbecile. Totally typical woke Leftist who thinks he knows better than us "unwashed" how we should live
Obviously being groomed for bigger and better things in Washington DC.
The Left Coast is rapidly becoming the new third world......
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Now... if I were a conspiracy theorist, I might suggest this really isn't about the climate or the environment. Maybe it's just a way of
- Controlling when, how and where we drive
- Monitoring us with built-in tracking devices
- Taxing us on the miles we drive
Not only is there not enough energy on the grid to power everyone's electric vehicle, given that the west coast currently doesn't have enough power to sustain the lights and air-conditioning as it is. Consider also, cold weather can shorten the range of an EV, not to mention the extra wear on a battery.
As for the last item, there is already a tax in some areas on those who own EVs. It's a "road use" tax. Since there's no paying the high gas taxes every time one fuels up, there must be a way to make up the shortfall in revenue.
Yeah. Brilliant plan.
Spoken by one who owns an EV.
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
Nailed it
We're well beyond the theory stage -- this is a practical application of totalitarianism.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
You let people make their own choices. Electric is currently a great option for many people.
Even high-end top-dollar luxury watersports boats like Nautique are now offering electric power.
Almost all super and hyper cars have hybrid power standard, since the performance is almost mind bending. Hell, Formula 1 has been hybrid for several years now. Same with top-level road racing cars like LeMans or IMSA.
Drag Racing eschewed gasoline at its top level over 60 years ago!
The problem with petroleum-based cars is that most people don't understand how it works. Crude oil won't power your car, it's just the jumping off point of an energy conveyance liquid. It takes a lot of electricity to extract the crude, move it to a refinery, turn it into gasoline and then distribute it over hundreds of miles through pipes with losses with high-energy pumps that use thousands of horsepower to move the fluid and overcome the system resistance, then have it blended to retailer's specs, pumped into trucks, driven to the gas station, pumped into a holding tank and then pumped into your car. That's a lot of energy! And the car motor's thermal efficiency is pretty dismal. You use electricity to up the enthalpy over and over over and then burn the result inefficiently.
Next, you need foundries to create the engines running arc furnaces that gobble electricity.
Or - you can skip the whole gas thing and put the electricity directly into the car. Hmm, I'm only a dumbass aerospace engineer, but seems like there's an obvious way to lean the process!
Batteries are a stop gap and will need a lot more engineering to get the replacement costs down, and by that time hydrogen will be way to go. Trust me, the future is hydrogen, it makes so much sense on every level.
Right now, contrary to what you have been made to believe the US is a net exporter of crude and the number one oil producer in the world. So yeah, there's going to be a lot of anti-electric propaganda from some extremely well funded folks who are against the change to electric.
Like in my world of aerospace- the term "adapt or die" has never been more evident. While NASA continues to bumble and stumble to get a larger version of the Apollo capsule into orbit on the SLS, using clean rooms and cubic dollars, and then you look SpaceX who's landing boosters and reusing them and producing Starships at Starbase, moving full-flow staged combustion Raptor engines - which NASA never achieved- around on open flatbeds. And every "traditional" rocket doctor naysayers would have told you that's impossible and a fool's errand. And yet it happened.
All I ask is this: When someone starts talking about how electric cars suck, examine their credentials and determine if they are advancing an agenda before sharing what they claim.
I have no horse in the race but I'm highly trained in propulsion, and from what I understand EV's are still in the early stages of integration into our transportation system, but hold the promise to be highly more efficient than petroleum-based fuels.
Hell, there were folks how said man would never fly and yelled "Get a horse!" to early motorists. How'd that turn out?
Chuck
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
OA, you kind of beat me to it. As are many here, I'm a gear-head AND a happy owner of an all-electric vehicle (EV). Which is why I understand its limitations. But I ogle the supercar makers and their styling, performance and cost. 0-60 in 2.5 seconds? Yikes! By comparison, there is a roller coaster in Hershey, Pennsylvania that goes 0-72 in 2 seconds flat. I watched it launch and just said to myself, "Nope."
I agree that hydrogen is the future. If the technology can be developed to create fusion power, not only will it be clean (the only by-product is water) I think it will displace nearly everything except nuclear (which is still the cleanest, most efficient form of mass energy production). The down side to nuclear is the fear factor, despite its nearly 100% faultless history.
Your description of the process needed to produce fuel from petroleum is enlightening, but contrast that also with the process needed to produce the batteries and infrastructure needed to produce an electric transportation infrastructure. A lot of the sci-fi I used to read suggested the electric grid would be embedded in the highway system itself, and the vehicles would simply leverage that power without the need of batteries. Still, creating such an infrastructure would be costly, time-consuming and disruptive. It could be done, however.
The problem as I see it is that the visionaries and technologists (props to Elon Musk) don't have the final say in implementation unless and until they do it themselves. The bureaucrats and kleptocrats simply add layers of paperwork and corruption which only serves to tangle the issue.
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
You're missing the point. It's not about the efficacy or efficiency of electric vehicles; it's about a representative government vs. a tyrannical government.
Jay Inslee has proven to the citizens of Washington State that he's going to do whatever he can to maintain power & force his will on the people, regardless of what we want.
We have voted & passed $30 car tabs more times than I can remember. But Jay refuses to enact what the people have voted into law.
The democrats in this state are like ticks burrowed into the hide of the public. They know better than we do how we should live, representation be damned. They are going to "save the planet"; so what if they wet their beaks a little in the process?
I'm sure it's only a coincidence that this kind of stuff has ramped up since the implementation of mail-in ballots.
+1000!!!
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
"Tyranny" seems a it severe to me but to each his own.
I look at it this way: Be informed, know which way the wind is blowing and make smart investments. Folks can piss and moan or they can profit from it. Put me in the latter category.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
Some conspiracies aren't just theories.
The Great Reset
The World Government Summit 2022
Some people believe in Star Trek's United Federation of Planets and the utopian vision presented by it. So, why is Star Trek so filled with violence?
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
I used to think EV would be here by now as a preferred power source, but it's limitations far exceed it's value currently.
Back in the day I "built" an EV using plans from Mother Earth news. My uncle came up with the aviation starter motor, and a 100 amp generator. (Yeah I knew the 8D Cat batteries would need help!) I put all of this together in a 65 Nova SS I had been waiting to build into another hot rod. Range was extremely limited, but to work and back was doable on one charge, acceleration was crazy too, but if I wanted to travel more than 20 miles or so I needed to fire up the Briggs to run the generator! I sold it to a fellow more frugal than I, (possibly he had warmer coats?)
Nowadays the limited range of the current EV's make them useless to most where I live. (The nearest major town is 120 mi away, and even dinky cars claiming over 300 mi range make it scary to make a round trip!) The "hybrids" don't do so well here either due to the constant elevation changes, and really don't deliver the savings, especially when the battery needs replacement! I hope they continue development, and someday they will find a storage system that will allow extended range, but for now, generating heat is the best way for me!
(For those claiming CO2 reduction, remember that EV's run on coal! Wind and solar account less than 15% of US energy production, and their intermittent power cannot be depended on!)
Last edited by Bill Moore; 04-01-2022 at 05:47 AM.
More than ever rings true the saying, "We don't get the government we want, we get the government we deserve."
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
It always begs the question...how is all this electricity going to be generated for all these new electric cars? Also, what is going to happen to all these batteries when they need to be replaced - where will they go? And finally, who has cornered the market on rare-earth elements needed to manufacture all these batteries (cough...China...cough)?
We, in Texas, found out the hard way two winters ago what happens when the Energy Councils overly invest in subsidized cheap 'renewable' energy. Thanks, ERCOT, I really loved having to melt snow to flush my toilets. Kind of hard to get wind and solar power to the grid when the turbines freeze and solar panels get covered with snow in a state that doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with real winter weather.
Electric cars, Teslas? Cool stuff. Being forced to have to buy one by government? Not cool.
Kind of sucks that so many people in a state are at the mercy of small urban areas populations voting habits. But I'll save the rant on the Electoral College for another day.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Lol, in my part of the state we didn't have snow to melt to flush the toilets, but even though I had the water to my house shut off to avoid the pipes freezing, I was able to get enough water trickling out of an outside faucet to collect for toilets, hand washing, etc.It always begs the question...how is all this electricity going to be generated for all these new electric cars? Also, what is going to happen to all these batteries when they need to be replaced - where will they go? And finally, who has cornered the market on rare-earth elements needed to manufacture all these batteries (cough...China...cough)?
We, in Texas, found out the hard way two winters ago what happens when the Energy Councils overly invest in subsidized cheap 'renewable' energy. Thanks, ERCOT, I really loved having to melt snow to flush my toilets. Kind of hard to get wind and solar power to the grid when the turbines freeze and solar panels get covered with snow in a state that doesn't have the infrastructure to deal with real winter weather.
Electric cars, Teslas? Cool stuff. Being forced to have to buy one by government? Not cool.
Kind of sucks that so many people in a state are at the mercy of small urban areas populations voting habits. But I'll save the rant on the Electoral College for another day.
You couldn't pay me enough to move to the "people's republic of Washington state" (Or California, New York, etc.)
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
This is what makes it so insidious: you get mail-in ballots in place, make sure your team is doing the counting, & then work on getting the numbers close enough to fudge them over the line without raising too many eyebrows. If you go east over the mountains or heck, just leave the I-5 corridor you'd think you were in another state. There's no way these degenerates have an actual majorityKind of sucks that so many people in a state are at the mercy of small urban areas populations voting habits. But I'll save the rant on the Electoral College for another day.
[It was Joseph Stalin who said that “it’s not the people who vote that count, it’s the people who count the votes.”
[/FONT][/COLOR]I think someone was listening in history class.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
WORD!
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
The irony that this thread is taking place on an internet forum devoted to electrified guitars is not lost on me but, go on.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
Best response yet!!!
I'm sticking to my decision to leave political threads alone. Nobody is going to change a mind here so I'll just pop some corn and watch from the sidelines.
"We catched fish and talked, and we took a swim now and then to keep off sleepiness." Mark Twain
But, but...
Nobody is claiming that electric guitars are saving the world (although a strong argument could be made for it).
And to give equal time...
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
You're either missing the point or are trying to misdirect the conversation. Nobody here hates electricity
Plus, this thread wasn’t meant to be political either. At least I never mean it whether I mention climate facts or energy sources: I merely discuss facts, like if and how it is possible to generate enough clean energy to feed a whole world of cars and what would be done with such an amount of batteries without prejudicing the environment…
In my own view none of this is offensive…
No, but the topic is inextricably intertwined with politics and that's the danger to this forum.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Yep. Because politics is the death of a number of forums. I belong to a couple of forums that have "hidden" sections containing political/flame-war stuff. You have to request access to them, and once you do, you aren't allowed to complain to the board ops if your feelings get hurt.
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
In my experience, politics and religion makes people crazy.
Can we get back to important stuff that actually matters like Indica vs. Sativa?
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
No, no, no, no, I don't smoke it no more
I'm tired of waking up on the floor
No, thank you, please, it only makes me sneeze
Then it makes it hard to find the door
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
Ok, my bad. Will be more careful next time... Hope no one is mad at me.
Peace
They both make terrible tonewoods for playing.
Much better for listening
"Live and learn and flip the burns"
Here is a good article on the elements needed to make good electric car batteries.
In other words, we're destroying the earth to save the climate.
https://fee.org/articles/the-environ...tric-vehicles/
Hmmm, read his article and then read his credentials.
First let's examine his credentials. He has no technical background, he's an "MBA Leadership" person.
Second, he understands naught about how things are made, and certainly has either no training in materials science or if he does chooses to ignore it.
All the elements he talks about ( save for lithium which we have more than we'll ever need and is easy to mine ) are used in the production on internal combustion engines. Look at the ASTM specs for things like Stellite used for valve seats, CD4MCuN or even a simple ASTM A744 300 series steel or any of the other most common metal alloys and you'll find all of them and more including chrome, cobalt, molybnium, lead, sulfur, oxygen, copper, and I can go on, not to mention iron which is the major component of steels and oh, by the way, very bad to the environment to mine. Same with bauxite for aluminum.
So he only made half an argument and left the other inconvenient facts to his thesis out of the article. Not exactly a scholarly or technically sound analysis.
In other words, use his article as input but not as factual output.
Chuck
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
A look at the other articles on that page tend to shrink credibility in my eyes, as well.
"We catched fish and talked, and we took a swim now and then to keep off sleepiness." Mark Twain
The gist of this topic is not the alleged superiority of one technology over another -- it's about freedom. One hundred years from now the Earth will still be here regardless of which road its taken. And there will still be jerk-offs proposing utopian solutions to problems that do not exist.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Wow. Just what I needed. A reminder of why I don't come here.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
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