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Thread: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

  1. #1
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    It's an odd situation. The Sovtek, Electro Harmonix, etc. tubes are manufactured in Russia, but the owner is an American company.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I'm thinking more about food, water, fuel, and ammo......
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I may have to re-install my reloading equipment on my workbench in the garage. I wish New Sensor would re-locate their plant to Poland or somewhere in Eastern Europe.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I think once the dust settles and we start learning more than what the Western State Media is spewing at this time, Putin will pull back and make concessions. This has been brewing for a long time and Russians are drawing their line in the sand.
    But then again, I don't know @#$%, but I do have three reloading presses and a bunch of primers just in case.

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I'm tucking my "comforter" back under my pillow......

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member Sugarcane's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    I'm tucking my "comforter" back under my pillow......



    Where’s a like button when we need one?

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    Where’s a like button when we need one?
    My sentiments exactly!
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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    The best thing about LMGs like the SAW or T75 is when they invariably jam you can use them as a club.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member Sugarcane's Avatar
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    Last edited by Sugarcane; 02-25-2022 at 03:07 PM.

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Since we're going down that road

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I certainly intend NOT to buy anything Russian. When the whole USSR thing fell apart, (thank you president Reagan), Russia can't get over being a power to be reckoned with. Bush, Obama, and now Biden have seen Russia invading former republics, only their belief in strong consequences keeps them in line! (The story is, Trump told Putin if he invaded Ukraine, he would bomb Moscow, is it true, who knows, but he didn't!)

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    Since we're going down that road
    That guy is pretty intense, I'd like to hear him slow down a little bit.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I certainly intend NOT to buy anything Russian. When the whole USSR thing fell apart, (thank you president Reagan), Russia can't get over being a power to be reckoned with. Bush, Obama, and now Biden have seen Russia invading former republics, only their belief in strong consequences keeps them in line! (The story is, Trump told Putin if he invaded Ukraine, he would bomb Moscow, is it true, who knows, but he didn't!)
    Bombing a nuclear superpower seems a bit extreme. Might be some unintended consequences of that. I hope that's not what you're suggesting.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I'm not suggesting anything, the point being whether Putin thought he would be able to do as he wanted without consequences.

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    So far, it looks like he has been.
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    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    What makes me mad is the "news" media saying we will have higher prices for gasoline, heating fuel, food, etc. because of Putin. They fail to mention it was Sleepy Joe who killed the Keystone XL pipeline, put restrictions on domestic drilling and is spending like a drunken sailor, fueling the worst inflation in 40 years. What's happening in Ukraine may make things worse, but is not the root cause of the problems.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse."

    The optimist says, "It certainly can."
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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Do we have to get political? It seems non constructive to me if we start adopting media name calling of the politicians we disagree with? I mean if this is going to be a conservative group, let’s change the name of the forum. I’m not going to start calling Trump names and get into his failures because I’d rather have guitar friends than political enemies. I understand everyone’s frustration. I kind of hope I can get away from Fox and CNN while I’m here.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I didn't realize that we could be forced into a discussion. My computer allows me to plck and choose which discussions I want to read, or respond.

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    You're right, Bill. Carry on.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Sugarcane's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Chill, guys. This thread is about an armed conflict that is happening right now in Europe. It affects the whole world and we can discuss it without going into our own political differences.

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    It is definitely not a clearly defined conflict with obvious moral positions to be taken. I lean toward the conservative side, politically speaking, but a lot of the journalists & commentators I usually listen to are divided.
    On a certain level I find it ironic that so many of the Western Democracies that are wringing their hands & decrying Putin have been chipping away are human rights for well over a decade now. You don't have to look any further than the recent debacle that took place in Canada to see the hypocrisy. Trudeau's comments on the situation in Ukraine showed a stunning lack of self-awareness of the brutality he inflicted on his own citizens less that three weeks ago

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    It is definitely not a clearly defined conflict with obvious moral positions to be taken. I lean toward the conservative side, politically speaking, but a lot of the journalists & commentators I usually listen to are divided.
    On a certain level I find it ironic that so many of the Western Democracies that are wringing their hands & decrying Putin have been chipping away are human rights for well over a decade now. You don't have to look any further than the recent debacle that took place in Canada to see the hypocrisy. Trudeau's comments on the situation in Ukraine showed a stunning lack of self-awareness of the brutality he inflicted on his own citizens less that three weeks ago
    Not only that but we have political prisoners being held without bond in a DC jail, some for almost a year now, just for trespassing or other misdemeanors that the average thug on the street wouldn't even get a fine for. Things that you would not expect to happen outside of Russia or some 3rd world dictatorship.
    I'm no fan of Putin or the devastation that he is causing in Ukraine but I don't think we're being told of all the events or circumstances that provoked him to attack in the first place.

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    Forum Member jmallard's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    I'm tucking my "comforter" back under my pillow......
    I agree. .

    Jerry

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    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Well I learned today that Russia is banning the export of any Russian made tubes. That will probably be the demise of New Sensor's factory in Russia. And possibly the end of reasonably priced tube amps or replacement tubes, as I understand JJ has about a 6 month backlog and I don't know the status of the Chinese tube factory that burned last year. The western democracies should have never allowed themselves to become dependent on suppliers in repressive regimes. If Taiwan falls to the Chinese, the semiconductor industry will be in a world of hurt.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    I have heard that when the rest of the world was adopting SS technology, the Russians stayed with tubes because of them being more able to sustain a EMR pulse. It was said at the time, that their most advanced MIGS had tube radios!

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    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I have heard that when the rest of the world was adopting SS technology, the Russians stayed with tubes because of them being more able to sustain a EMR pulse. It was said at the time, that their most advanced MIGS had tube radios!
    I have heard that also Bill. The news is that is the Russian ban on exports of tubes will last until the end of the year. That would probably make the financial viability of the factory doubtful.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I have heard that when the rest of the world was adopting SS technology, the Russians stayed with tubes because of them being more able to sustain a EMR pulse. It was said at the time, that their most advanced MIGS had tube radios!
    Having had the opportunity to work on such equipment during my career I can confirm that with absolute certainty. We're talking transmitters with motor-driven power supplies, vacuum tubes with solder-in leads, xener diodes galore, etc etc etc. It's one of the reasons the cossacks never got to the moon.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member Sugarcane's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Back to tubes, I just saw a known amp tech (From USA) practically begging for tubes in a social media site. Dude…

  30. #30
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcane View Post
    Back to tubes, I just saw a known amp tech (From USA) practically begging for tubes in a social media site. Dude…
    Well, if an amp tech can't provide tubes for amps he/she is repairing (that need new tubes), then they won't be able to collect any revenue for the work performed, unless a customer is willing to pick up an amp without a complete set of working tubes, and trusts that the tech actually fixed whatever else was wrong with the amp.

    The amp techs that I know are one man shops that rely on cash flow to pay for their living expenses.
    Last edited by Michael Smith; 04-06-2022 at 04:12 PM.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Forum Member Sugarcane's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    Well, if an amp tech can't provide tubes for amps he/she is repairing (that need new tubes), then they won't be able to collect any revenue for the work performed, unless a customer is willing to pick up an amp without a complete set of working tubes, and trusts that the tech actually fixed whatever else was wrong with the amp.

    The amp techs that I know are one man shops that rely on cash flow to pay for their living expenses.
    I know, Michael. The “dude” in my post was about tubes allegedly getting rare and expensive

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    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    don't forget that time is money too for business people. Maybe the guy can get tubes, but it might be months before he gets them. To keep the money flowing, he's hoping some of the people who scarfed up all the tubes in the 'shortage' scare will sell him some NOW, just so he can get his customers' amps back to them and get paid. His margin will be less but more than zero that he gets if the amps sit in his shop untubed.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    To keep the money flowing, he's hoping some of the people who scarfed up all the tubes in the 'shortage' scare will sell him some NOW.
    Many of these "people" are likely amp manufacturers, compelled to stock up on inventory in order to keep their plant doors open.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Many of these "people" are likely amp manufacturers, compelled to stock up on inventory in order to keep their plant doors open.
    I'd be a little surprised if the amp manufacturers were the ones doing the hoarding. IME, the vast majority of industrial manufacturers are so rigid and moribund in their ways that they consistently fail to anticipate that anything could interfere with their SOP that they would indeed close their doors when the excrement hits the air moving device. My brother works in sales to companies, strictly industrial stuff and you'd be surprised at how many of their purchasing managers are utterly clueless about supply chain issues, and instead of planning ahead, run around like chickens with their heads cut off at the last second. Many companies try to operate on just in time techniques, with zero room for discrepancies.

    Purchasing managers almost never operate with 'what if' contingencies, if they ran out of tubes, they'd only get what they need now, not the next week/month/quarter requirements. Many of the VPs of purchasing care more about their bonuses that are tied to spending as little as possible. They don't care if the employees have to be furloughed for a week or month or more. That's somebody else's problem.

    Maybe a boutique builder, with a small staff of well under 50 people, might have the internal organizational flexibility to adapt on the fly, and buy extra tubes they don't need today but will need for the next 3-6 months, IF they have the capital reserves to make that commitment. Chances are they don't. Meanwhile companies that do (have cash reserves) won't, because they want to present a better cash balance to their board of directors and stockholders.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    I'd be a little surprised if the amp manufacturers were the ones doing the hoarding. IME, the vast majority of industrial manufacturers are so rigid and moribund in their ways that they consistently fail to anticipate that anything could interfere with their SOP that they would indeed close their doors when the excrement hits the air moving device. My brother works in sales to companies, strictly industrial stuff and you'd be surprised at how many of their purchasing managers are utterly clueless about supply chain issues, and instead of planning ahead, run around like chickens with their heads cut off at the last second. Many companies try to operate on just in time techniques, with zero room for discrepancies.

    Purchasing managers almost never operate with 'what if' contingencies, if they ran out of tubes, they'd only get what they need now, not the next week/month/quarter requirements. Many of the VPs of purchasing care more about their bonuses that are tied to spending as little as possible. They don't care if the employees have to be furloughed for a week or month or more. That's somebody else's problem.

    Maybe a boutique builder, with a small staff of well under 50 people, might have the internal organizational flexibility to adapt on the fly, and buy extra tubes they don't need today but will need for the next 3-6 months, IF they have the capital reserves to make that commitment. Chances are they don't. Meanwhile companies that do (have cash reserves) won't, because they want to present a better cash balance to their board of directors and stockholders.

    Well, I think any company should be able to use whatever legal means they have at their disposal to make all the money they can, provided they act in an ethical manner. The company isn't there to feed the workers. It's there to feed the pig.

    I'm not much for the socialist view that the company is there to serve the employees and consumers. The company exists to make money. To do so they need to pay a competitive wage and benefits set by the market and offer products in which the customer perceives value.

    Why on earth would I tie up inventory $$$ on tubes - with the tax ramifications that go along with that - for a piece of a dying market based on outdated technology?

    It's very, very, very, very simple: If the demand for EL84s, 6L6s, etc. is there somebody will fill it. The technology and manufacturing for vacuum tubes is well understood and easy to do.

    I'm certain I can start a company and have them made in China for dirt cheap and a modest investment of probably under $250K. But the reality is the demand just isn't there for me to do so. There are several vacuum tube manufactures in China.

    If you guys can show me a business case I'll start a tube company, OK? We'll call it SlandTone Tubes.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  36. #36
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Western Electric is considering the production of common guitar amp tubes in the US. Apparently, they currently only make one expensive, highly specialized tube. If you go to their website, there is a "survey" of which tubes people would like them to produce.
    "The Mornin' Sun is Rising...It's Kissin' the Day" Journey

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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    Western Electric is considering the production of common guitar amp tubes in the US. Apparently, they currently only make one expensive, highly specialized tube. If you go to their website, there is a "survey" of which tubes people would like them to produce.
    Here's a link to the survey. I would encourage everyone to take a few minutes & fill it out:
    https://www.westernelectric.com/expand

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    Forum Member Sugarcane's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    Here's a link to the survey. I would encourage everyone to take a few minutes & fill it out:
    https://www.westernelectric.com/expand

    Done!

  39. #39
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcane View Post
    Done!
    Dittos

    I asked that they add a few tubes to their list......

    GZ34
    5R4GT
    12AT7
    5881
    7027A (for the Ampeg fans)
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Should we be stocking up on Sovtek tubes?

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Dittos

    I asked that they add a few tubes to their list......

    GZ34
    5R4GT
    12AT7
    5881
    7027A (for the Ampeg fans)
    Dude, you left off 7025's!
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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