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Thread: Let's see your amplifiers...

  1. #81
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    The speakers are the original CTS alnicos. The one in the upper right of this picture was reconed earlier this year by a professional shop in Houston according to the prior owner.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  2. #82
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    A beautiful quartet!

    I have one of these installed in my '65 Princeton Reverb, it sounds great.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  3. #83
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    Killer amp to be sure. Looks clean as a whistle. A '71 Super Reverb was my main amp from 1981 to 1999. I only retired it to work on the cabinet, & that's about the time I bought my Bandmaster, so I didn't get back to it.
    The Super was in such bad shape that I had to cradle it in my arms during load-in/load-out. Once after a gig I went to pick it up & the only thing that moved was the handle, the top panel, & the chassis. The power cord, & reverb & speaker wires were just dangling down into the remainder of the cab. I knew it was time to renovate, lol
    Did you ever repair/replace the cabinet? I would probably build a head cabinet just for the chassis, and repair the old cabinet and leave the speakers and reverb tank there, similar to what I did with my Super Twin Reverb (photos earlier in this thread). I think my Super Reverb weighs about 63 pounds, and I don't trust just the handle to carry it up stairs, so when I brought it home I lifted it one stair at a time, all 17 of them, lol.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    I fixed the cab. I built another baffle because the original one had disintegrated, & recovered the box. Because I couldn't source any silver/turquoise grill cloth that suited me & looked authentic, I took the opportunity to revamp it cosmetically: That meant a repro blackface panel, ivory Tolex, & wheat grill cloth. It's missing two speakers because I needed them for the Bandmaster until I could find suitable speakers, but then I just forgot about them & so it sits:

  5. #85
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    That's the nature of Fender's post-1970 furniture. CBS abandoned Leo's tried-and-true cabinetry (finger-joined corners and screw-in baffle board) in favor of cheaper lapped corners and glued-in baffle board. Repairs to the latter are all but impossible. However the original enclosures will endure for several lifetimes if used responsibly and quality repros are available from a variety of vendors. I've built many myself for my clients.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  6. #86
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    COGS, nice job restoring the Super Reverb. It's a shame it has been sitting idle. Aren't there any suitable replacement speakers available for the Bandmaster?
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    I'm sure there are some out there but I haven't thought about it in awhile. My original plan was to get a pair of JBL D110s for the Bandmaster, but hoo boy, the pricetag. I finally settled on just finding some AlNiCo Fenders. At that point, though, the ones from the SR were performing just fine, & I wasn't pressed to get the Super up & running. So for now it is sitting in the garage, much like a broke down truck sitting on some blocks in the yard, lol

  8. #88
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    As much as I love the F-series JBL's, the D110F's are the last 10-inch speakers I'd install in any guitar amp. I tried a pair in a '66 blackface Vibrolux Reverb many years ago and they sounded like someone torturing a smoke detector with an ice pick.

    Why not take a look at something from Weber or a couple of Chicago-made Jensen C10N's?
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  9. #89
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    I'm sure there are some out there but I haven't thought about it in awhile. My original plan was to get a pair of JBL D110s for the Bandmaster, but hoo boy, the pricetag. I finally settled on just finding some AlNiCo Fenders. At that point, though, the ones from the SR were performing just fine, & I wasn't pressed to get the Super up & running. So for now it is sitting in the garage, much like a broke down truck sitting on some blocks in the yard, lol
    It could be a safety hazard sitting out in your garage. You might trip over it and get hurt. As a public service I would be happy to remove this dangerous item from your garage, lol.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    As much as I love the F-series JBL's, the D110F's are the last 10-inch speakers I'd install in any guitar amp. I tried a pair in a '66 blackface Vibrolux Reverb many years ago and they sounded like someone torturing a smoke detector with an ice pick.
    Shatter my dreams, why doncha

    I have to believe you are correct. A D120 in a Deluxe, though... That's a match made in heaven!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    It could be a safety hazard sitting out in your garage. You might trip over it and get hurt. As a public service I would be happy to remove this dangerous item from your garage, lol.
    I couldn't live with myself if I put somebody else in harms way
    Seriously though, this conversation has motivated me to seek a solution. I build cabinets on the side, I should be able to find something around that will work! They will have to go in the B'master so I can return these to the SR

  11. #91
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    @Cogs, I'm wondering if caps degrade over time just sitting with the amp not being played? Thinking of your idle Super Reverb.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  12. #92
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    @Cogs, I'm wondering if caps degrade over time just sitting with the amp not being played? Thinking of your idle Super Reverb.
    Electrolytics age whether energized or not.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  13. #93
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    I have to believe you are correct. A D120 in a Deluxe, though... That's a match made in heaven!
    +1!

    Like finding Shangri-La or the Lost Dutchman Mine.

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  14. #94
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    That's the nature of Fender's post-1970 furniture. CBS abandoned Leo's tried-and-true cabinetry (finger-joined corners and screw-in baffle board) in favor of cheaper lapped corners and glued-in baffle board. Repairs to the latter are all but impossible. However the original enclosures will endure for several lifetimes if used responsibly and quality repros are available from a variety of vendors. I've built many myself for my clients.
    Your knowledge of stuff like this, PM, is one reason I respect you so much.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  15. #95
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    Your knowledge of stuff like this, PM, is one reason I respect you so much.
    Likely the only reason.

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  16. #96
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Likely the only reason.

    Haha. Nope. You’re a good man.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  17. #97
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Can anyone identify this amp? Hints: High gain, (3) 12ax7 tubes, (2) 5881 power tubes, built in the mid 1990's. I have blacked out the country of origin in the first photo.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Sovtek?

  19. #99
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    Sovtek?
    Tube Midget 50H. This thing is very loud! I have only found one schematic for it online, and it's kind of hard to read, but the "high" input has 4 preamp gain stages and the "low" has 3. One of the 12AX7's is the phase inverter. The "high" input is almost unusable if you crank the preamp gain. Perhaps a 12AT7 for V1 would tame it a bit.

    I don't know how much they sold for new, but I think I paid no more than $500 in the early 2000's. It may have been less than that, but it was a cash purchase from a young guy who just had their first baby, so his high volume playing days were over. He had the matching 4 x 12 Sovtek cabinet, but I didn't buy that.

    This thing is heavy for a tiny amp head. As you can see it has a large power and output transformer.

    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  20. #100
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    Perhaps a 12AT7 for V1 would tame it a bit.
    Or a 5751.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  21. #101
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Front...66 Deluxe Reverb, 66 Princeton Reverb, early 68 Vibro Champ
    Back...64 Super Reverb, 65 Twin Reverb, early 68 Pro Reverb, 66 Vibrolux Reverb
    All still retain their original covers and paperwork. They are currently cycling through Allen Amplification in N KY for check-ups

  22. #102
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Long cruise, eh sailor?

    Ahoy Mark, it's been a while. Great family portrait!

    Still got the Stingray?
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  23. #103
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Or a 5751.
    Thanks, I may look into that. After some quick research, I found this: "12AT7 have a gain factor similar to the 5751’s but their plate current is ten times of a normal 5751 tube, and it makes a huge difference in a tone driver position." Quote is from a website called SonoBoom. I'm still reading their reviews of 5751's.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  24. #104
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Ahoy Mark, it's been a while...Still got the Stingray?
    Yeah...I just lost track of you guys. I thought, for some reason, this site went T/U.

  25. #105
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    It's been nip and tuck at times but it seems like some measure of equilibrium has been achieved.

    Time will tell.

    How about a pic or two of your C3?
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  26. #106
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    How about a pic or two of your C3?
    They come and go with regularity. I have found a passion for 1990 ZR1 Corvettes.


  27. #107
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    1990 ZR1 with 44 original miles.
    cars, schmars...it's all about guitars (and amps)😁✌️

  28. #108
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Love those 427's!

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  29. #109
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Did somebody say 427?


    Striving to be ordinary

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  30. #110
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    Did somebody say 427?
    Does that thing use a sextet of EL34's?
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  31. #111
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    Does that thing use a sextet of EL34's?
    Naw......6550's.

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark1969L88 View Post
    Front...66 Deluxe Reverb, 66 Princeton Reverb, early 68 Vibro Champ
    Back...64 Super Reverb, 65 Twin Reverb, early 68 Pro Reverb, 66 Vibrolux Reverb
    All still retain their original covers and paperwork. They are currently cycling through Allen Amplification in N KY for check-ups
    That's quite a collection!
    You can give us a rundown on those guitars, too, if you want to

  33. #113
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    1977 Fender Deluxe Reverb, List price in Dec 1977 was $370. I paid $1,350 in March 2021. The amp had several problems when I did further testing at home.

    1. It broke up at very low volume (between 3 and 4 on the vibrato channel).
    2. Inspection of the interior of the chassis revealed what I believe to be several wiring errors. The seller indicated the amp was last "serviced" a couple of years earlier.

    I drew a detailed schematic of the amp, noting the value of all resistors and capacitors. Based on this, I believe the amp to be the AA1172 circuit, although a couple of the resistors (appeared to be original) differed in value from the schematic. I also noticed the 4 preamp tubes were JJ ECC 803-S. These are "long plate" tubes. The following is from the TubeStore website:

    "The JJ ECC803-S is a warm full sounding tube, with high gain. It's great sounding in hifi amps and guitar amps (guitar players see note below). Note: Because this tube has a long plate structure it is susceptible to excessive microphonics and is therefore not recommended for use in combo amps or high gain stages. For these amps the JJ ECC83-S is a better choice". So I replaced them with ECC83-S tubes.

    Can anyone shed any additional light on the ECC803-S preamp tubes?

    The amp had a Jensen C12Q speaker from 2012 when I purchased it, possibly contributing to the early breakup. I installed a Celestion Vintage 30 (60 Watt), and I get more clean headroom.

    I replaced all of the electrolytic caps, corrected what I believe were the wiring errors, changed a couple of resistors to match the AA1172 schematic, as well as the resistors in the doghouse and bias circuit and the amp is now sounding good.

    The original filter caps all had a date code of 1973, so Fender must have had quite a stock of them on hand.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  34. #114
    Forum Member jrgtr42's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    1977 Fender Deluxe Reverb, List price in Dec 1977 was $370. I paid $1,350 in March 2021. The amp had several problems when I did further testing at home.

    1. It broke up at very low volume (between 3 and 4 on the vibrato channel).
    2. Inspection of the interior of the chassis revealed what I believe to be several wiring errors. The seller indicated the amp was last "serviced" a couple of years earlier.

    I drew a detailed schematic of the amp, noting the value of all resistors and capacitors. Based on this, I believe the amp to be the AA1172 circuit, although a couple of the resistors (appeared to be original) differed in value from the schematic. I also noticed the 4 preamp tubes were JJ ECC 803-S. These are "long plate" tubes. The following is from the TubeStore website:

    "The JJ ECC803-S is a warm full sounding tube, with high gain. It's great sounding in hifi amps and guitar amps (guitar players see note below). Note: Because this tube has a long plate structure it is susceptible to excessive microphonics and is therefore not recommended for use in combo amps or high gain stages. For these amps the JJ ECC83-S is a better choice". So I replaced them with ECC83-S tubes.

    Can anyone shed any additional light on the ECC803-S preamp tubes?

    The amp had a Jensen C12Q speaker from 2012 when I purchased it, possibly contributing to the early breakup. I installed a Celestion Vintage 30 (60 Watt), and I get more clean headroom.

    I replaced all of the electrolytic caps, corrected what I believe were the wiring errors, changed a couple of resistors to match the AA1172 schematic, as well as the resistors in the doghouse and bias circuit and the amp is now sounding good.

    The original filter caps all had a date code of 1973, so Fender must have had quite a stock of them on hand.
    The circuit number should be on the tube chart inside the cab, as well as the stock tubes.
    From the circuit number, you should be able to find the circuit diagrams, online perhaps. If those show what you believe are correct, then I;m guessing that the tech that did the service whenever that was did this thing wrong when he wired it back up.
    That said, speaking for myself as a basement musician, I wouldn't mind an earlier breakup - 3 - 4 is plenty loud for me, and I could clean it up with the volume knob on the guitar if needed. I;m no expert by any stretch, but maybe those were mods to cut back on volume and increase breakup.
    Same with the tubes - if they worked fine, then they work fine. Those warnings are for the long run - and again, if it sounded good to whoever had it before, that's the important part.
    ********************************
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  35. #115
    Forum Member Keefoman1's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    The speakers are the original CTS alnicos. The one in the upper right of this picture was reconed earlier this year by a professional shop in Houston according to the prior owner.
    I got the exact same model:



    A friend of mine gave me this one as he was about to throw it away. The amp was clearly neglected over a long period of time, and hadn't been stored in ideal conditions. There was moist, rust and many signs of quick-fix solutions in the curcuit to make it work. Needless to say, it didn't work when I got it. I even told my friend that the amp would be worth some money, even in the sorry state it was in, and if he had it repaired, he probably would get more for it than the repair / refurbish cost.









    I broke out the amp chassis and shipped it to my amp doctor. He contacted me and recommended it modded to a blackface curcuit as there was som significant work needed anyway. I agreed of course. The amp also needed a new reverb tank and a new footswitch which he ordered for me.

    While the amp was at the doctor's, I took out the speakers, and refurbished them myself. Also original CTS alnicos, as you can see. Dried out and cleaned the cabinet, and the only thing missing was the upper back panel and the amps chassis mount was heavily corroded, so I ordered a new panel and chassis mounts. TAD reverb tank and a new footswitch delivered with the repaired and modded amp. It turned out really great, and is my main amp for gigs.






  36. #116
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrgtr42 View Post
    The circuit number should be on the tube chart inside the cab, as well as the stock tubes.
    From the circuit number, you should be able to find the circuit diagrams, online perhaps. If those show what you believe are correct, then I;m guessing that the tech that did the service whenever that was did this thing wrong when he wired it back up.
    That said, speaking for myself as a basement musician, I wouldn't mind an earlier breakup - 3 - 4 is plenty loud for me, and I could clean it up with the volume knob on the guitar if needed. I;m no expert by any stretch, but maybe those were mods to cut back on volume and increase breakup.
    Same with the tubes - if they worked fine, then they work fine. Those warnings are for the long run - and again, if it sounded good to whoever had it before, that's the important part.
    The tube chart doesn't indicate the circuit revision like earlier Fender tube charts often did. That being said, the old tube charts didn't always accurately reflect the circuit revision of that particular amp, but did show the proper tubes used. My tube chart shows (4) 12ax7's for the preamp, and (2) 12at7's for the reverb driver and phase inverter. The schematic shows the same, but uses 7025's in place of the 12ax7's (low noise versions).

    I'm not sure what type of music the previous owner played, so maybe the early breakup was something she liked. I like the clean headroom of a Deluxe and can put a pedal in front of the signal chain if I want some distortion. Any you're right, 3 or 4 is plenty loud. I often practice by putting an extension speaker in the closet and plugging it into the main speaker output jack.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  37. #117
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefoman1 View Post
    I got the exact same model:


    A friend of mine gave me this one as he was about to throw it away. The amp was clearly neglected over a long period of time, and hadn't been stored in ideal conditions. There was moist, rust and many signs of quick-fix solutions in the curcuit to make it work. Needless to say, it didn't work when I got it. I even told my friend that the amp would be worth some money, even in the sorry state it was in, and if he had it repaired, he probably would get more for it than the repair / refurbish cost.
    I broke out the amp chassis and shipped it to my amp doctor. He contacted me and recommended it modded to a blackface curcuit as there was som significant work needed anyway. I agreed of course. The amp also needed a new reverb tank and a new footswitch which he ordered for me.

    While the amp was at the doctor's, I took out the speakers, and refurbished them myself. Also original CTS alnicos, as you can see. Dried out and cleaned the cabinet, and the only thing missing was the upper back panel and the amps chassis mount was heavily corroded, so I ordered a new panel and chassis mounts. TAD reverb tank and a new footswitch delivered with the repaired and modded amp. It turned out really great, and is my main amp for gigs.
    Yep, same amp! It was definitely worth it to refurbish your amp. Mine came with the original "heavy" cover, and based on the great condition my chassis and speaker baskets were in, I assume the owner kept it mostly at home and kept it covered when not playing it.

    Here are some pics of my chassis after replacing all of the filter caps, cathode bypass caps, bias cap, and some resistors. As you can see from the "doghouse" picture, I was short one resistor when I put together my order, so I reinstalled the original carbon composite 1K 2W resistor. (I measured it and it was still within spec), but will replace it the next time I need to order parts for anything I'm working on.

    I still need to clean some of the old solder flux off of the eyelet board, but I don't have any high percentage isopropyl alcohol on hand currently.
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  38. #118
    Forum Member Keefoman1's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    Yep, same amp! It was definitely worth it to refurbish your amp. Mine came with the original "heavy" cover, and based on the great condition my chassis and speaker baskets were in, I assume the owner kept it mostly at home and kept it covered when not playing it.

    Here are some pics of my chassis after replacing all of the filter caps, cathode bypass caps, bias cap, and some resistors. As you can see from the "doghouse" picture, I was short one resistor when I put together my order, so I reinstalled the original carbon composite 1K 2W resistor. (I measured it and it was still within spec), but will replace it the next time I need to order parts for anything I'm working on.

    I still need to clean some of the old solder flux off of the eyelet board, but I don't have any high percentage isopropyl alcohol on hand currently.
    Everything in the "doghouse" was changed in mine. :)
    I spent about 650 usd (in todays currency) on repairs and parts, and even though the amp is far from mint, I know I could easily get double that if I tried to sell it. That will never happen though...

    I have to say, the CTS Alnicos are truly great speakers!

  39. #119
    Forum Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefoman1 View Post
    Everything in the "doghouse" was changed in mine. :)
    I spent about 650 usd (in todays currency) on repairs and parts, and even though the amp is far from mint, I know I could easily get double that if I tried to sell it. That will never happen though...

    I have to say, the CTS Alnicos are truly great speakers!
    I'm surprised your amp tech didn't change out your cathode bypass caps (the white mallory's) and more importantly the negative bias cap and resistor. (assuming your later photos were "after" the work was done).
    "When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top

  40. #120
    Forum Member Keefoman1's Avatar
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    Re: Let's see your amplifiers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
    I'm surprised your amp tech didn't change out your cathode bypass caps (the white mallory's) and more importantly the negative bias cap and resistor. (assuming your later photos were "after" the work was done).
    I have to admit that I haven't the slightest idea. (Maybe they were?) All I know is that the amp works great although it might need a minor service again soon. Lockdown pt.2 might just be the right opportunity.

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