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Thread: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

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    Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Hi, so before I get the jokes and bashing, I want to verify I am a recording facility owner. NOT a guitarist.

    That said, over the years I have collected some serious old school vintage gear (that's my forte !). So to the point, I have a 1966 Blackface Twin Reverb. Lately I got the idea to want to use the spring reverb *only* in it. Using line signals from my DAW as source and then out the twin's reverb *only* to print to separate "effect only" track back in the daw. (then blend the 2 later).

    Is this possible ? Of course I know I could "reamp" the line signal go to the in's and then mic it or use the external speaker out and pad the hell out of it... BUT that would impregnate the source signal into the effect as well and for this particular idea/thing I do not want that.

    Now the reason I ask is because I see RCA jacks i/o going to/fro the spring tank. So I am thinking, maybe I could just use those as the i/o to/fro my daw if I use the proper gain staging, amp/reamp/padding/preamping/adaters/etc.. ?? I do not see the spring tank hooked up to any power, so I guess it don't need it ? So theoretically speaking if I juice up a signal to be at the same loudness/ohms, etc.. as the fender amp feeds the tank (or if that stage is done after then copy that instead), then I should be able to do this by skipping the fender amp side all together ? Literally use the tank without even plugging the fender in ??

    I wanted to ask here before I blow anything up and get the right way to do this IF possible.

    Thanks !

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    If you need to furnish everything but the ($25?) tank why bother? Just build a 6G15!

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    If you need to furnish everything but the ($25?) tank why bother? Just build a 6G15!
    Hey Bill ! Thanks for chiming in. Honestly I wanted to use the old tank. (got a old JCM 800 I plan on doing same thing with if this works) - I've lost my trust in anything built new. Just to summarize a otherwise 4hr conversation. haha.

    But the real reason is - I have seen the build kits, and you are 100% right, IF I were going to go that route, I'd do that Fender 6G15 kit like you said, or that Tube Spring Reverb kit The Wave I think. But really, I don't want to spend my time doing those things. My time is so limited in life lately that I want to focus/streamline my talents to the things I do best. And tech work is NOT one of them. lol - I'm not young anymore to spread my skills thin across the clock like that.

    Just curious if I can plug directly into them RCA jacks and use the tank by itself or not, and if so does anyone know what signals the in needs and the out back to the daw would need ? I most likely have everything I'll need here, but just need to know the proper levels/impedance/etc the tank would need for its i/o (if those cables even would work like I am thinking.

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    You need a circuit to drive, and recover the signal from the tank. Fender uses a transformer to couple the input, and a higher impedance output sent to amplify the signal.
    Most of our sound gear is 600 ohms, (usually balanced), or 10K ohms, usually called "line level".
    There is nothing "magical" about the tank you have, the "magic" is the total circuit. When I built my "Twin", I had several friends come by, and we did a tank "shootout". I had a late model Belton "9" series, a Mod "4" series, and a 60's Gibbs "4" series. Everyone thought the Mod was the best and assumed it was the old Gibbs, but it was a new tank!

    https://www.amplifiedparts.com/produ...decay-2-spring

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    There is nothing "magical" about the tank you have, the "magic" is the total circuit.
    You know that is a extremely good point. If I do not use the vintage circuitry, then the magic is not there. Forgot to look at it that way.

    I guess it is possible that older springs, real deal metal and them crappy RCA cables could influence the sound. lol, but yea, for the most part that sought after sound is the circuit.

    Quick question, is there a way with the rebuilds to record the effect only with no blended in source signal ? In modern terms it'd be called a "mix" knob = dry<---->100%wett.

    Ideally I like to record my effects on their own tracks, giving freedom to tweak the effect if desired (eq, volume, gate, etc..) without messing with the dry source signal. This I can not do when using the Twin as normal. I was going to test what happens when I try to go directly into the tank though, maybe I will get no source and all effect ?

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb



    Oh, dear. That did not go well
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    Oh, dear. That did not go well
    ?? Not quite understanding what you mean ? What didn't go well ?

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Records View Post
    ?? Not quite understanding what you mean ? What didn't go well ?
    my standard response to "what happens if I plug this gozinta that goezouta?" Like "what happens if I plug this wha pedal backwards?"
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    my standard response to "what happens if I plug this gozinta that goezouta?" Like "what happens if I plug this wha pedal backwards?"
    Haha, Oh yea no I get it. Hence the explosion too ! LOL

    Yea I think in this instance, it should be fine though. Famous last words right ?!?! ha !

    But thats why I wanted to ask y'all here. I mean surely I'm not the only person that wants to try this.

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Picking up on where Bill notes that you need part of the amp’s circuit to drive and recover the reverb, I think as a studio owner and apparently tinkerer ;-) you would be well advised to procure or perhaps build something like a Fender Reverb unit (vintage or the newer reissue stuff). There were some Boss pedals produced in the early 2000s that do a similar thing.

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog View Post
    Picking up on where Bill notes that you need part of the amp’s circuit to drive and recover the reverb, I think as a studio owner and apparently tinkerer ;-) you would be well advised to procure or perhaps build something like a Fender Reverb unit (vintage or the newer reissue stuff). There were some Boss pedals produced in the early 2000s that do a similar thing.
    Hey Dirtdog, thanks for helping out. Ok, so I for sure get the "drive/recover" thing - but what I am asking is, will two separate preamps work ? And/or combo of that and a pad unit ?. Cause I have several things like that of course. I even have a few things that alter the Ω's so I was hoping I could just do that with what I got. Remember, the signal coming out my DAW is a line signal. So that's already super juiced up (driven) compared to a instrument level. And with the gear I got I can get anywhere in-between mic (lowest level I know of) to speaker output levels (highest levels I know of) too. Which IMO covers all possible levels right ?

    What I'm getting at is I get the concept, but need to know the details so I can try it. Its so much easier to at least try that first (if I get the ok from you all that its possible) before I go out and buy something. For now, just wanna use what I got if possible. If not, buy the simple stuff to make it happen (adaptor here and there).

    Plus if I am to be honest, I am just curious. lol What level and Ω's the tank needs on the IN and what level the OUT of the tank spits out. I know that, and I'll be fine. I'll either abandon the idea cause I can't achieve it or if I got the abilities to do it right, I'll try it ! But don't wanna mess with it till I know those things.

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    The link I sent gives the required impedance, 8 ohm input, 2,250 output.
    Some of the early "reverb" recordings were a signal fed to a speaker, picked up by a mic, usually inside a highly reflective enclosure/room. My friend's mother's tile bathroom worked well for his 8 track studio back in the day. (Had to clear it with her first!)
    Your tank is no more than a speaker, (one transducer), and a mic, (the other transducer), connected by springs, (the surface/distance, room). I don't know of any "boxes" you can plug into either end and get the reverb tank to function as it does with dedicated circuitry.
    Last edited by Bill Moore; 02-24-2021 at 03:34 PM.

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    Re: Odd use for my Blackface Twin Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    The link I sent gives the required impedance, 8 ohm input, 2,250 output.
    Some of the early "reverb" recordings were a signal fed to a speaker, picked up by a mic, usually inside a highly reflective enclosure/room. My friend's mother's tile bathroom worked well for his 8 track studio back in the day. (Had to clear it with her first!)
    Your tank is no more than a speaker, (one transducer), and a mic, (the other transducer), connected by springs, (the surface/distance, room). I don't know of any "boxes" you can plug into either end and get the reverb tank to function as it does with dedicated circuitry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    The link I sent gives the required impedance, 8 ohm input, 2,250 output.
    Some of the early "reverb" recordings were a signal fed to a speaker, picked up by a mic, usually inside a highly reflective enclosure/room. My friend's mother's tile bathroom worked well for his 8 track studio back in the day. (Had to clear it with her first!)
    Your tank is no more than a speaker, (one transducer), and a mic, (the other transducer), connected by springs, (the surface/distance, room). I don't know of any "boxes" you can plug into either end and get the reverb tank to function as it does with dedicated circuitry.
    Gotcha, sorry I did look over the link, but I thought it applied only to that new reissue tank.

    8ohm in, 2,250ohm out.. You said mic and speaker -- So a 8ohm mic level input and a 2,250 Speaker level out ?

    Pretty sure any preamp should be able to do that ? No ? Also, what might make the most since, leave the input of the tank plugged in and use the twin as usual (pad the line out of my DAW to a instrument level and go into the Twin's normal input) - Then unplug the output on the tank and instead of having it go to the twin as usual, skip that and have it go to a line pad (brings the level down drastically) and then that to my DAW input.

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