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Thread: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    I'm listening to the Momentary Lapse of Reason album that P Floyd released after they resumed post Roger Waters.

    Waters says it's not a Pink Floyd record. It came out in the late 80s, and the critics almost all agreed that it was a terrible that Dave G and company had brought in songwriters and musicians.

    I've been a bit troubled by that too, but as I listen to it this morning, it hit me that we never criticize musicians for using non-bandmate backing singers or backing orchestras. What's the difference between an outside musician playing a violin or a guitar?

    It is not a "Pink Floyd" album, but it's a damned good album. Ezrin and Gilmour put together a sadly overlooked and wrongly-maligned musical extravaganza.

    Something related but I find worse is the attitude that bands can carry on with non-original member musicians. Chicago and Kiss both have seriously stated that their bands will go on without them.

    Hi, I'm the lead singer and songwriter now of Chicago. I didn't play on any of the original albums, and non of my songs have even charted with Chicago, but I'm the face of Chicago and so are the 20-something year old sessions musicians who do Chicago part time when they're not on tour with Celine Dion.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    BFD. The Wrecking Crew, The Swampers, The Funk Brothers, and others played on so many hit records back in the day we've lost count. The "Original" members of bands often stood by and watched while serious players laid down the instrumentals.


    i wonder now if that's why music today lacks the sound that it used to. Anyone can record, punch in and out, and lay down multiple tracks. There are no more major studios with house bands. It's watered down the talent level.

    YMMV,

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member blackonblack's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    I don’t mind at all. Division Bell is a great album.
    Polly, David’s partner, writes a lot of the lyrics
    Mark

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    Watered down talent, for sure.

    I'd say we have more technically advanced players than ever before. But something is missing. I don't blame the players, but something about popular music needs a bit of imperfection to it, bit of idiosyncratic soul to it.

    We've been talking about Keef on another thread. Keef would fail a lot of guitar classes at a music institution. I've played with guitarists who could put Keef to shame even if they had to play with the pukyshitz flu. Not a one of them could make the guitar their own like Keef.

    There is an interesting difference between rock and orchestral music, or at least in the way we view it. In rock, we expect original band members. Chicago plays better than they ever have, but without Cetera and Kath, it's not Chicago to me. On the other hand, I don't hear any of Beethoven's players these days, nor do I care because any violinist in any city will play the notes so similarly to the way they were played then. In rock, we expect the songs and playing to be original and the playing unique; with classical, we expect the music to be original, but the players should stick to the script, no room for full-out creativity.

    I've always loved bands that mix pop and rock with classical orchestration, not as a backing, but rather when the guitars and the orchestral instruments interact and are equally important to the song.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    Gilmour without Waters and Waters without Gilmour have technically great stuff, but both situationd make me yawn.

    Gilmour is an outstanding player and I love to ser him play either Classic PF stuff or stuff like barn Sessions, and Waters is a hell of a songwriter. But one without the others in band situationd até just boring to me. YMMV

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    Forum Member jrgtr42's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    Gilmour without Waters and Waters without Gilmour have technically great stuff, but both situationd make me yawn.

    Gilmour is an outstanding player and I love to ser him play either Classic PF stuff or stuff like barn Sessions, and Waters is a hell of a songwriter. But one without the others in band situationd até just boring to me. YMMV
    100% agreed - Pink Floyd is absolutely a case where the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts.
    I'm not saying that Momentary Lapse or Division Bell aren't great albums if held on their own, but they don't hold a candle to the classic era - Meddle, Dark Side, Wish, Animals. Even The Wall, I don't like quite as much, it's too much a Waters album, with the rest just as backing musicians. and Final Cut even more so.
    I saw PF on the Pulse tour, and |I've seen Waters several times, but the newer stuff just doesn't have the oomph of the old.
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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    Ummagumma
    Striving to be ordinary

    Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!

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    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    I saw PF during the Division Bell tour. I don't know how they managed it but they had an absolutely killer sound in the old Foxboro Stadium. By far the best I've heard in a large venue. They played the entire DB album the first set and then DSOTM for the second set. At the time I think it was the most I've ever paid for a ticket (75? 85?) and worth every penny, even though we were but 3 or 4 rows from the top, at least we were near the stage end.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    Pink Floyd is a sad miss for me.

    I have tickets for Roger Waters when he reschedules his tour, good seats too, but I don't think I'll ever want to go into a crowd again. Never liked concert crowds anyway.

    I love The Division Bell. I think the songs are some of the strongest Gilmour ever wrote (along with his lyricist wife, who should not be discounted; she is a talented and known writer). No, it's not Animals or DSOTM--but those albums weren't Pipers or Saucer Full of Secrets.

    I'm a big fan of Syd Barrett and really dig his playing and singing. But there's something in every configuration of singers and players that I like. Without Syd and without mentioning the masterpiece DSOTM, my fave Floyd albums are in no order: Meddle, Animals, Final Cut, and The Division Bell.

    As for the sum of the parts, I'd assert that Water's Amused to Death album is equal to his best albums when he led Floyd. In a way, even better because the album is less about his own pain than about that of the powerless and poor. It also points a finger at mindless consumerism, hawkish attitudes, etc., government over-reach, and our own complicity.

    I'd rather not get into his politics here if we can avoid it.

    Musically, Waters is a medium level player--guitar or bass. (not mediocre--you come up with a lick as good as "Money"). But he's great with building songs, and whether you agree with him, the lyrics on Amused to Death are smart and still musical. Jeff Beck's guitar work on it kind of makes the absence of Gilmour not so tragic.

    I liked Gilmour's Rattle That Lock better than his other solo albums, think the songwriting is better, but I don't think Dave has yet to reach the heights in his solo career--The Division Bell was really the best album he totally helmed, solo or with PF (I'm thinking only of what they did after Waters left).
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member jrgtr42's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts about P Floyd after Waters

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    I saw PF during the Division Bell tour. I don't know how they managed it but they had an absolutely killer sound in the old Foxboro Stadium. By far the best I've heard in a large venue. They played the entire DB album the first set and then DSOTM for the second set. At the time I think it was the most I've ever paid for a ticket (75? 85?) and worth every penny, even though we were but 3 or 4 rows from the top, at least we were near the stage end.
    I was there at Foxboro for that tour - but not that show. They played 3 nights, IIRC. I was there the third, I think. |It was misting all day so they weren't able to fly the blimp - but the lasers and the giant disco ball looked incredible.
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