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Thread: ‘72 Garcia tone

  1. #1
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    ‘72 Garcia tone

    Since I know there are some other Dead fans in here, I’ll comment.

    Of course I do love the tone Jerry Garcia got from Tiger and his other preferred guitars but everytime I listen to the 1972 gigs or rewatch the Sunshine Daydream movie I can’t help but think his tone with a strat was just IMMACULATE.

    I wish he had played and recorded more with one.

  2. #2
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    I must confess I'm ignorant about this era of the Dead's history as I was out of the country from late '69 until the fall of '73. But I enjoyed Garcia's playing regardless. I recollect seeing Jerry and the boys at an outdoor concert in Golden Gate Park in the summer of '67, along with Jeff/Plane, Quicksilver, and the Chambers Brothers. A great show (free no less!) with Garcia playing a Guild Blues Bird through a pair of Twins and a big Standel rig. Awesome tone and plenty loud!
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    You said, "Quicksilver."

    One of my all-time favorite bands! Dual lead guitars, and John Cipollina using metal finger picks and a Leslie, Gary Duncan with his jazz riffs... ah, I've got to go put on an album now!

  4. #4
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Thank the Lord, it took Roger coming backfires someone to finally reply!

    Thing is, Rog, Jerry knew how to use a strat!

  5. #5
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    You said, "Quicksilver."
    Years ago when we still included a few "summer of love" tunes in our repertoire, QMS's "Pride Of Man" and "Dino's Song" were always at the top of that sub-list. John Cippolina was quite the innovator back in the day with riffs and fills that nobody had ever thought of yet. Tragic that he was taken so prematurely, just as with Paul Kantner and Randy California......

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Rog is giving this forum the shot it needs.

    As a recent convert to the Dead, I've got to look up this 72 recording. Is there a youtube video?
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  7. #7
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    Rog is giving this forum the shot it needs.

    As a recent convert to the Dead, I've got to look up this 72 recording. Is there a youtube video?

    Yes, look up Grateful Dead Sunshine Daydream. There are some videos but listening on YouTube ain’t very good for evaluating tone. Try archive.org and you’ll find a lot of Dead contents.

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    Yes, look up Grateful Dead Sunshine Daydream. There are some videos but listening on YouTube ain’t very good for evaluating tone. Try archive.org and you’ll find a lot of Dead contents.
    Will do.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Years ago when we still included a few "summer of love" tunes in our repertoire, QMS's "Pride Of Man" and "Dino's Song" were always at the top of that sub-list. John Cippolina was quite the innovator back in the day with riffs and fills that nobody had ever thought of yet. Tragic that he was taken so prematurely, just as with Paul Kantner and Randy California......

    Those are the same two songs I have in my rotating repertoire! I knew I was in the right place!

    And then you had to add Randy California! Man, Spirit is my favorite band of all time! I have a t-shirt he and Ed Cassidy autographed for me back in 1993 that I've never worn!

  10. #10
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Keep some cedar chips in close proximity to that T-shirt lest moths have their way with it.

    Otherwise they might drive you to the point of
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member vinyl's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    Since I know there are some other Dead fans in here, I’ll comment.

    Of course I do love the tone Jerry Garcia got from Tiger and his other preferred guitars but everytime I listen to the 1972 gigs or rewatch the Sunshine Daydream movie I can’t help but think his tone with a strat was just IMMACULATE.

    I wish he had played and recorded more with one.
    I would just mention that in between Tiger and Alligator (the strat) he played a Travis Bean guitar. Regardless of whatever guitar he played, it was the way way he played. Sorry for the awkward first post, but IMO, the truly great guitar players have an un-mistakenable
    "style" of playing that makes them almost instantly recognizable.

    Cheers,
    vinyl

  12. #12
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    I would just mention that in between Tiger and Alligator (the strat) he played a Travis Bean guitar. Regardless of whatever guitar he played, it was the way way he played. Sorry for the awkward first post, but IMO, the truly great guitar players have an un-mistakenable
    "style" of playing that makes them almost instantly recognizable.
    Agree. I don't care what kind of guitar Carlos Santana plays. It's Santana clear as a bell. Clapton, much the same. And so on...

  13. #13
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    I would just mention that in between Tiger and Alligator (the strat) he played a Travis Bean guitar. Regardless of whatever guitar he played, it was the way way he played. Sorry for the awkward first post, but IMO, the truly great guitar players have an un-mistakenable
    "style" of playing that makes them almost instantly recognizable.

    Cheers,
    vinyl

    I respectfully disagree here. Garcia's tone is particular to each phase, accordind to the guitars he played and the gear he used... And yes, we are aware of the other guitars he played, but his strat tone is very distinct.

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    Forum Member vinyl's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    I respectfully disagree here. Garcia's tone is particular to each phase, accordind to the guitars he played and the gear he used... And yes, we are aware of the other guitars he played, but his strat tone is very distinct.
    I agree that the "strat era" was some of his best stuff, but apparently he was not satisfied, and went on to multiple options. P90 style pickups on the Travis bean, humbuckers on the later "custom guitars".
    Who knows what he was thinking, or wanted?
    What amps was he using? Were the recordings digital or analog?
    I'm not about starting a digital or analog debate or god forbid a "tonewood" argument. My preference is Fender. It's an opinion. Granted, I prefer the vintage stuff. Pretty much why I followed Roger here from Fender's corporate forum.
    We can argue "tone" here ad infinitum. Not really interested in that.
    Cheers, and thanks for the welcome.
    Bill

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    I agree that the "strat era" was some of his best stuff, but apparently he was not satisfied, and went on to multiple options. P90 style pickups on the Travis bean, humbuckers on the later "custom guitars".
    Who knows what he was thinking, or wanted?
    What amps was he using? Were the recordings digital or analog?
    I'm not about starting a digital or analog debate or god forbid a "tonewood" argument. My preference is Fender. It's an opinion. Granted, I prefer the vintage stuff. Pretty much why I followed Roger here from Fender's corporate forum.
    We can argue "tone" here ad infinitum. Not really interested in that.
    Cheers, and thanks for the welcome.
    Bill
    There are so many variables. One is style and one is tone. They intermingle and affect each other, but they're separate at the same time, one from the guitarist, one from the guitar. So you guys are really on the page together.

    Glad to see you here, vinyl. You're welcome on this forum.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    I agree that the "strat era" was some of his best stuff, but apparently he was not satisfied, and went on to multiple options. P90 style pickups on the Travis bean, humbuckers on the later "custom guitars".
    Who knows what he was thinking, or wanted?
    What amps was he using? Were the recordings digital or analog?
    I'm not about starting a digital or analog debate or god forbid a "tonewood" argument. My preference is Fender. It's an opinion. Granted, I prefer the vintage stuff. Pretty much why I followed Roger here from Fender's corporate forum.
    We can argue "tone" here ad infinitum. Not really interested in that.
    Cheers, and thanks for the welcome.
    Bill


    So, I was a bit shortsighted, admidtedly, I'm the newbie here., I apologize for not checking some of the other posts.

    My Sincere Apologies,
    vinyl (Bill)

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    There are so many variables. One is style and one is tone.
    A third significant parameter to consider is ease of play -- frankly, the Strat just fits my body more comfortably than any other guitar I have ever played. Not that I find a Tele, an LP, or an ES-3XX difficult, just that when I have to play four sets in an evening, the Strat leaves me less fatigued than the others.

    Just a personal observation, not meant to diss the opinons of anyone else.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  18. #18
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    So, I was a bit shortsighted, admidtedly, I'm the newbie here., I apologize for not checking some of the other posts.

    My Sincere Apologies,
    vinyl (Bill)

    No need to apologize, we were discussing Dead tone, which is always a good chat!

    Indeed, you are entirely welcome to share your thoughts here and though sometimes members disagree, your opinion will be appreciated.

    Stay tuned!

  19. #19
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    A third significant parameter to consider is ease of play -- frankly, the Strat just fits my body more comfortably than any other guitar I have ever played. Not that I find a Tele, an LP, or an ES-3XX difficult, just that when I have to play four sets in an evening, the Strat leaves me less fatigued than the others.

    Just a personal observation, not meant to diss the opinons of anyone else.
    The strat is such a magnificent instrument. In my case, it is the least comfortable of all models I've tried, the SG and the solid body Rickenbacker being much less tendonitis-inducing. But the tone I get from my strat and my love for its aesthetics just don't leave me a choice, it's my favorite guitar.

  20. #20
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Jerry's main amp were fenders at the beginning, then his later rigs were mostly the preamp from a Twin into power amps like Macintosh and the fabled wall of sound in the early '70s. Was it during the '72 tour I don't know. Mostly it was very clean at the amp and he got his drive from pedals.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

  21. #21
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Four sets a night. Whew!

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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    This is not from '72, nor is it a Stratocaster, but this version of Might As Well is smokin'.
    Jerry is tearing it up!
    Last edited by Cogs; 03-24-2020 at 04:08 PM.

  23. #23
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    This is not from '72, nor is it a Stratocaster, but this version of Might As Well is smokin'
    Jerry is tearing it up!

    Been missing your posts, brother. Good to see you.

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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Well I've been able to free up some time recently
    lol

  25. #25
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    Well I've been able to free up some time recently
    lol

    Good for us. What have you been playing? I mean guitars.

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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    For probably the last year or more I've stuck with a couple Telecasters I've built. I really like the raw tone of a Tele.
    Those have been plugged into a couple of Vox AC10C1s. I think Teles & Voxes are a great pairing. As classic as a Strat & a Marshall, or a Les Paul & a Super Reverb
    Jmo

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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    A third significant parameter to consider is ease of play -- frankly, the Strat just fits my body more comfortably than any other guitar I have ever played. Not that I find a Tele, an LP, or an ES-3XX difficult, just that when I have to play four sets in an evening, the Strat leaves me less fatigued than the others.

    Just a personal observation, not meant to diss the opinons of anyone else.
    Purportedly, the last custom guitar Jerry played weighed 16 lbs. That's just the internet, and I don't take much stock in that. Might be true, or might not

    Admittedly, I became a fan of Jerry. He "introduced" me to bluegrass, David Grisman, Vassar Clements, and even Dolly Parton and Irving Berlin. Ultimately I became a fan of George Barnes, and Tony Rice.

    The great players introduce us to our musical journeys. Whatever they are.

    JMO, and regards,
    vinyl

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    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    I respectfully disagree here. Garcia's tone is particular to each phase, accordind to the guitars he played and the gear he used... And yes, we are aware of the other guitars he played, but his strat tone is very distinct.
    Jerry played a lot of different instruments, but a vintage wind strat on the middle pickup, is the quintessential "Sound of Jerry," as far as I'm concerned.
    Several guitars in different colors
    Things to make them fuzzy
    Things to make them louder
    orange picks

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    Forum Member Frat Rettle's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n View Post
    Jerry played a lot of different instruments, but a vintage wind strat on the middle pickup, is the quintessential "Sound of Jerry," as far as I'm concerned.
    Welcome back Kap'n.
    I have decided to be happy because it's good for my health.

  30. #30
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n View Post
    Jerry played a lot of different instruments, but a vintage wind strat on the middle pickup, is the quintessential "Sound of Jerry," as far as I'm concerned.

    Welcome back, Kap'n! good to see you!!

    As a Dead fan, of course I love all of Jerry's work but man, when he played that strat...

  31. #31
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    I was never a Dead fan, per se. I liked their stuff but never went out of my way to listen to it. I have two Dead albums, Aoxomoxoa and Live Dead (I don't own it, but I think Europe '72 is my favorite). I also have the Garcia/Saunder/Kahn/Vitt Live At Keystone album.

    But my real intention for posting is that Garcia had one super-major influence on me: I learned how to "ring" a note (on acoustic, which I was playing at the time) like he did. I didn't/don't use a plectrum, so I used the tip of my index finger nail to strike the string hard and quick, which gave me that "ring."

    Thanks, Jerry.

  32. #32
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Hey Kap'n, long time. Great to see you here.


    Thing you gotta remember about Jerry is that he was essentially a bluegrass picker who played in an electric band. His picking technique has a lot to do with it. It's not uncommon to hear some tuning issues on his live performances but his rhythm is usually spot on. In some aspects I think his playing is banjo-esque.

    As far as the quintessential Jerry sound, I'd have to go with Europe '72. To my ears the Tennessee Jed solo off of that collection pretty much sums up Jerry.

    That said, the much later Touch of Grey solo is iconic and such a masterpiece that stands on it own. Had he recorded noting else, it would still be one for the ages and he'd be famous for it. It's now a right of passage for bluegrass players to learn and perform that solo. It's the perfect example of modality and how to apply it.

    IMHO,

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  33. #33
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Has anyone listened to the Dead's self-titled debut album? It features their first regional hit "The Golden Road (To Unlimited Devotion)", a killer version of "Morning Dew", plus several blues standards and a couple of psychedelic classics from the days of "underground radio". Solid guitar work all around and well worth a listen if you can find it.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  34. #34
    Forum Member Sérgio's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Has anyone listened to the Dead's self-titled debut album? It features their first regional hit "The Golden Road (To Unlimited Devotion)", a killer version of "Morning Dew", plus several blues standards and a couple of psychedelic classics from the days of "underground radio". Solid guitar work all around and well worth a listen if you can find it.

    I like their studio albums but some of their live performances are what amazes me the most.

  35. #35
    Forum Member vinyl's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    Jerry's main amp were fenders at the beginning, then his later rigs were mostly the preamp from a Twin into power amps like Macintosh and the fabled wall of sound in the early '70s. Was it during the '72 tour I don't know. Mostly it was very clean at the amp and he got his drive from pedals.
    "The Wall of Sound" was very interesting technologically during the time, and also very expensive.

    I never got to see it in person, but I would have liked to. Four semis and a crew of 21. 28,800 RMS watts, powered by McIntosh amps. Mostly JBL speakers, and Electrovoice tweeters. The most interesting thing was everything was behind the band, and they used pairs of out of phase mikes to cancel feedback.

    Living in D.C. at the time (late 72) I got to see them at American University with The New Riders for free. Later I saw them at RFK Stadium with The Alman Brothers and Wet Willie. Still later I saw them in Baltimore.

    Some performances were "better" than others, but I don't regret seeing any of them, regardless of if I paid or not. Also if my experience was "chemically induced" or not.

    Stay well everyone,
    Bill

  36. #36
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    Also if my experience was "chemically induced" or not.
    Ah yes......the days of illicit "herbal analgesics".

    Venues in SF pioneered the phenomena -- the moment one entered the door at Winterland, the Fillmore, or the Avalon Ball Room the aura was instantaneous and permeating. You needn't even bring your stash with you since the contact high was more than ample to keep you buzzed for hours.

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  37. #37
    Forum Member vinyl's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Ah yes......the days of illicit "herbal analgesics".

    Venues in SF pioneered the phenomena -- the moment one entered the door at Winterland, the Fillmore, or the Avalon Ball Room the aura was instantaneous and permeating. You needn't even bring your stash with you since the contact high was more than ample to keep you buzzed for hours.

    If I implied anything "herbal" in my previous post. my apologies. That was not my intention.
    Not my best moments, I'll freely admit it.

    What I had in mind were the terms "window pane" or "blotter".

    Not disagreeing with Roger, just trying to "clarify". I gave it all up shortly after that

    Not much different from a bottle of Mezcal, and a night of darts.

    Cheers,

  38. #38
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    Quote Originally Posted by vinyl View Post
    If I implied anything "herbal" in my previous post. my apologies. That was not my intention.
    Not my best moments, I'll freely admit it.

    What I had in mind were the terms "window pane" or "blotter".

    Not disagreeing with Roger, just trying to "clarify". I gave it all up shortly after that

    Not much different from a bottle of Mezcal, and a night of darts.

    Cheers,
    Ah, concoctions courtesy Augustus Owsley Stanley III...

  39. #39
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    I never got to do any of those classic Owsley Stanley concoctions, only pale imitations and never at shows. I had a bad experience and that was enough for me. Just natural stuff for me, thanks.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

  40. #40
    Forum Member jrgtr42's Avatar
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    Re: ‘72 Garcia tone

    My brother saw The Dead at the old Boston Garden - IIRC, that was the last show therebefore they tore it down. He was at midcourt, eye level with Jerry's guitar. Said it was great.
    My parents were at the same show - as chauffeurs and my dad was a deadhead from way back - not to the extent of following them, but deep appreciation.
    They said the clouds up there were so thick they had trouble seeing the stage.
    ********************************
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