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Thread: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    I really like my guitar instructor. He's a terrific player, knowledgeable beyond belief, and generally an all-around good guy.

    But I'm getting tired of taking lessons. I feel like I need a break. I go every Monday, and really enjoy the time, and I am learning, but I find when I go home, I'm not practicing the lessons all week. Instead, I'm embarking on new themes, riffs, patterns, rhythms, etc. This was the goal of taking lessons, and I feel I've achieved that. There's still so much to learn, but I'm thinking of asking for a break today.

    Anyone else had this experience? How did you handle it?

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    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    it's ok to stop and better to be honest with both him and yourself. Leave the door open so you might be able to resume at some point in the future if you have the desire and he has the available lesson time.
    "Live and learn and flip the burns"

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    I tried taking electric guitar lessons 3 times. It took me about 2 classes to quit, each time.

    If you already play the instrument, know basic chords and are able to play what you like, just play the guitar.

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    I tried taking electric guitar lessons 3 times. It took me about 2 classes to quit, each time.

    If you already play the instrument, know basic chords and are able to play what you like, just play the guitar.
    Well see, Sérgio, here's the problem: I get stuck in a rut. These lessons have helped pull me out, but I find it difficult to sit and practice the "lesson plan." I always find myself stretching out a bit -- I find something in a scale, or a lesson that inspires me (I built an entire song based on the chords of the Am scale, for example). I also like talking about certain structures, like the blues scale.

    I have a lesson coming up in an hour. I'm going to talk with my instructor and see if we can't find some common ground. I'm thinking a "summer vacation" of sorts. Given that I'm his only student presently, I don't think it would be a problem to resume at a later date. Unless he decides that giving lessons isn't worthwhile for him.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Do the following:

    Pretend you're a working musician. Have someone prepare a list of 40 songs for you and give yourself two weeks to be ready to play them live. Make sure it's not the same stupid three chords over and over.

    I or others here can give you setlists if that will help.

    Your job for tonight, learn Jet from Wings and Big Shot by Billy Joel. Both are easy and fun to learn and play, both have guitar hook, both use the full chord scales. Be ready to go over them with the band on Thursday.

    If you can master these two simple songs stop the lessons. If you can't have you instructor show you how to take them apart and learn the different parts. Understand the dynamics. Learn the music side of things as much or more than manipulating the guitar, because that's when the fun really starts.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Do the following:

    Pretend you're a working musician. Have someone prepare a list of 40 songs for you and give yourself two weeks to be ready to play them live. Make sure it's not the same stupid three chords over and over.

    I or others here can give you setlists if that will help.

    Your job for tonight, learn Jet from Wings and Big Shot by Billy Joel. Both are easy and fun to learn and play, both have guitar hook, both use the full chord scales. Be ready to go over them with the band on Thursday.

    If you can master these two simple songs stop the lessons. If you can't have you instructor show you how to take them apart and learn the different parts. Understand the dynamics. Learn the music side of things as much or more than manipulating the guitar, because that's when the fun really starts.

    Chuck
    great!

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Do the following:

    Pretend you're a working musician. Have someone prepare a list of 40 songs for you and give yourself two weeks to be ready to play them live. Make sure it's not the same stupid three chords over and over.

    I or others here can give you setlists if that will help.

    Your job for tonight, learn Jet from Wings and Big Shot by Billy Joel. Both are easy and fun to learn and play, both have guitar hook, both use the full chord scales. Be ready to go over them with the band on Thursday.

    If you can master these two simple songs stop the lessons. If you can't have you instructor show you how to take them apart and learn the different parts. Understand the dynamics. Learn the music side of things as much or more than manipulating the guitar, because that's when the fun really starts.

    Chuck
    I appreciate the suggestion(s), Chuck. What if I don't like the songs? Oh, I know, I know, a working musician can't afford to not like the songs!

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    I appreciate the suggestion(s), Chuck. What if I don't like the songs? Oh, I know, I know, a working musician can't afford to not like the songs!

    The idea is to put together a setlist of songs you like, in the first place

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    The idea is to put together a setlist of songs you like, in the first place
    Oh, that I have. Not 40 (I'm not sure my brain can hold 40 songs at one time!). I've kept a book of favorites since I was in college. Currently, I have about six on rotation that I'm playing. I've added a few more recently. My purpose in taking lessons is to help me stretch my capabilities. And I am.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Get out of your comfort zone. Play new music that's not the same chords over and over.

    Also, play along with recordings. Learn the art of coming in an out at the right places, and get your timing down dead perfect.

    Now, learn those songs I asked you to. You'll soon find the reason why I chose them after you do. You can thank me later.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Get out of your comfort zone. Play new music that's not the same chords over and over.

    Also, play along with recordings. Learn the art of coming in an out at the right places, and get your timing down dead perfect.

    Now, learn those songs I asked you to. You'll soon find the reason why I chose them after you do. You can thank me later.
    Well, sure. I'm not argumentative, and why not? So, I looked up Jet on Ultimate Guitar (https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab..._chords_279935). That's the one, right?

    Incidentally, after my lesson on Monday, I sat down and created a song based on chords found in the G Mixolydian mode (B°7, E7, A-7, D-7, G7, Cmaj7). Fun!

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    Well, sure. I'm not argumentative, and why not? So, I looked up Jet on Ultimate Guitar (https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab..._chords_279935). That's the one, right?

    Incidentally, after my lesson on Monday, I sat down and created a song based on chords found in the G Mixolydian mode (B°7, E7, A-7, D-7, G7, Cmaj7). Fun!
    So using your ears, does that tab for the intro sound right?

    Hint: C#m

    Also, there are no chords in the Mixolydian mode. It's a scale. 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    So using your ears, does that tab for the intro sound right?

    Hint: C#m

    Also, there are no chords in the Mixolydian mode. It's a scale. 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7
    Let me reword that: I worked out a piece using chords that the G Mixolydian scale could be played over.

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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    I thought Mixolydian was for shingles...

    Damn! I cayant keep up with all these new drugs...

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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    So using your ears, does that tab for the intro sound right?

    Hint: C#m

    Also, there are no chords in the Mixolydian mode. It's a scale. 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7
    Technically, it's a whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step. It's based on the dominant note of the Ionian mode.

    Or at least I think so.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    You're kiddin' me, right?
    Kenny, based upon my training and understanding, the mode is defined by it's intervals. In the Mixolydian the whole step to the 7th degree is replaced with a half-step. One can construct chords using the intervals of a Mixolydian scale, but in the key of G. for example, If you play a G major chord, the intervals remain the same regardless of the melodic scale or mode. For example a G7 chord while having a b7, is still a G7 regardless of what the melody does modally.

    The sololist may choose to play over G7 using F instead of the "normal" F#, thus utilizing the Mixolydian mode, but the intervals and nomenclature of the underlying chords is unchanged, since they are established by the notation next to the cleff.

    That's my understanding, but I'm open to alternative interpretations.


    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    Technically, it's a whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step. It's based on the dominant note of the Ionian mode.

    Or at least I think so.

    OldStrummer,

    Rule number one for pop music is don't over think it. It just is what it is. McCartney can't read music and isn't trained, so whatever he likes is what he likes.

    So, what I'm hoping you'll do with Jet is use your ears to dissect the opening chords. It's not only important to know what chords to play, but where on the neck to play them. The fun of Jet is in the Bm, C#m, and D chords. Play them at the second, 4th and fifth frets respectively, then on the C#m7 at the end of lick, you'll hear a high B played on the sixth string. The chord will be x46457.

    Next it goes into a simple A power chord on the second fret but, the "Sargent Major" gets fun. You barre the A on the second and then while holding it, hammer on Bm7. Classic rock and roll move. You need to learn it. The the "Ah Mater" you need to go find the fill ( hint, think "D") and the same thing with "Want Jet to always love me" part which is a walkup.

    These are the moves that will make you a better player, rather than just strumming chords or noodling scales.

    Get the rhythm and fills nailed. Don' worry about noodling.

    Truth be told, when you play in a good band the times you get to take a "do your own thing" solo are actually the relaxing times when you can have a little fun. The rest of the time you need to be working.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Thanks, Chuck. That's very helpful, and I appreciate you taking the time to post it. I will work on this as you suggest (as well as the practice stuff my teacher has me doing). I'm always looking to improve my playing.

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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    I've never taken formal lessons from a teacher in person. Never someone who has a lesson plan laid out. Everything I have learned I searched for, found information about, and then studied it because I was eager to learn it. Even though I didn't learn to play until I was, 30 I have had a life long interest and love for the guitar and the people who play. My most early memory of hearing and loving distorted guitar starts around 1968 and 69. Mostly though lead guitarists of the late 60's forward. What I wanted to learn most was doing what appeared those guitarist were doing and that's picking up a guitar and being able to weave a meaningful lead through any song in any key from one end of the guitar's neck to the other. That's the fun for me. When I write and record my tunes that's what I enjoy. Not writing songs with words because the guitar is singing the words in my mind. My favorite study are jam tracks and I have a lot in different styles, and keys. After looking to see which key the track was in I would then put them on random play and make myself guess where to start playing out so as not to sound out of key. It never gets old to me and is always fun.

    Additionally, I am a long reader of lots of guitar magazines. When I finish with them I cut out the tabs and stick them in a binder. If I hear a song with a interesting guitar piece I'll find a tab, test it to be correct, and put it in one of my binders and learn from it later. I keep tab binders in alphabetical band order with a up to date table of contents on my computer. I've got a book on different tunings and have learned pieces in Drop D, Open E, G, A etc., slide and in different tunings. 12 string, 8 string, and bass guitar. I do it on a budget, a low one, and it's all things I want to learn and it's always fun.

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Mike, your post reminded me of the old gag, "How do you stop a guitarist from playing? Put sheet music in front of him!"

    Like you, I am/was entirely self taught for the firs 50 years of my playing. About a year ago or so, I kept thinking to myself, "I don't know what I don't know." So I figured I'd take lessons.

    Currently, I'm the only student my teacher has, and he knows he's not teaching someone with no knowledge of the instrument. So he gives me a lot of leeway. There is a lesson plan, but in addition to scales and etudes, there are duets, and yes, I have to read the music!

    Reading the music is a real challenge for me. Not because I can't read music, but because like you, I'm used to just playing riffs, chords, rhythms, and solos. Even after a year, I still don't have every note on the fretboard memorized. Which I think I need to do. That also hampers my ability to take a chord and modify it (a seventh to a ninth, for a simple example). But I'm getting better. And I've been able to expand my knowledge of chord forms and inversions, which helps me use more of the fingerboard.

    All in all, I'm glad I'm taking lessons. I sometimes don't want to practice the stuff in the lesson plan, but ultimately, it's making me a better player.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Did you work on Big Shot yet? You need to learn the first 4 bars. Then we'll go over what you learned and why it's so important.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Did you work on Big Shot yet? You need to learn the first 4 bars. Then we'll go over what you learned and why it's so important.
    Not yet. I just looked at the chording on Ultimate Guitar. I will also need to listen to it on YouTube, as I only know the song in passing.

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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    I just said I've never taken formal lessons. I never said I couldn't read sheet music for the guitar. I've studied theory and have practiced it. Just never took a lesson.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    Mike, your post reminded me of the old gag, "How do you stop a guitarist from playing? Put sheet music in front of him!"

    Like you, I am/was entirely self taught for the firs 50 years of my playing. About a year ago or so, I kept thinking to myself, "I don't know what I don't know." So I figured I'd take lessons.

    Currently, I'm the only student my teacher has, and he knows he's not teaching someone with no knowledge of the instrument. So he gives me a lot of leeway. There is a lesson plan, but in addition to scales and etudes, there are duets, and yes, I have to read the music!

    Reading the music is a real challenge for me. Not because I can't read music, but because like you, I'm used to just playing riffs, chords, rhythms, and solos. Even after a year, I still don't have every note on the fretboard memorized. Which I think I need to do. That also hampers my ability to take a chord and modify it (a seventh to a ninth, for a simple example). But I'm getting better. And I've been able to expand my knowledge of chord forms and inversions, which helps me use more of the fingerboard.

    All in all, I'm glad I'm taking lessons. I sometimes don't want to practice the stuff in the lesson plan, but ultimately, it's making me a better player.

  24. #24
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesr1963 View Post
    I just said I've never taken formal lessons. I never said I couldn't read sheet music for the guitar. I've studied theory and have practiced it. Just never took a lesson.

    I'm sorry if I implied you couldn't read music. I was trying to inject some humor into the conversation. In my case, I learned to read music when I was a kid learning piano, and then had to apply that knowledge to the music theory courses I took in college. But I never transported that to guitar. I taught myself, and pretty much stuck to playing chords and singing along to the "hits" of the day. As I matured, I started to experiment with newer chords and rhythms, but never undertook the guitar as a solo instrument. My instructor studied guitar through his Masters program (he's got his M.M. in Jazz Studies from the University of the Arts, Pennsylvania). He also studied classical guitar at Rowan University. The guitar is the basis for his entire education! He knows more about the guitar and playing it than I ever will!

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    Not yet. I just looked at the chording on Ultimate Guitar. I will also need to listen to it on YouTube, as I only know the song in passing.
    Strummer, Chords are free. :) Concentrate on learning the moves in the song. If you study the chords you'll end up strumming it, which ain't how it's played. Like I said, I chose these two songs on purpose. Dig the opening lick and the syncopation, then the slide into the power chords. That's the stuff you need to know.

    What I want you to work on is to move away from strumming progressions and then using some scale for a solo and towards working the song from "the inside out", applying the structure to what your doing, and then also realizing that in most pop or rock you seldom play all six strings on a chord. You are usually only using three or four.

    Both of the songs I chose for a reason - they are a bit cheezey but they are catalogs of classic guitar hero moves. Single notes, power chords, I -IV intervals, etc. And play along with the recording, don't practice them in a vacuum. You really should never practice without something to keep you on time.

    We'll have you doing Steely Dan or Little Texas stuff in no time!
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member Laker's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    I think that lessons can only take you so far. Once you have an understanding of chords and the neck of the guitar it becomes more like absorbing rhythmic feel and observing how accomplished players do what they do.

    The Stevie Rae And Lonnie Mack’s of the world didn’t spend time taking lessons (IMHO) they learned the basics and then absorbed the “feel” of the music around them.

  27. #27
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm Getting Tired of Taking Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Laker View Post
    I think that lessons can only take you so far. Once you have an understanding of chords and the neck of the guitar it becomes more like absorbing rhythmic feel and observing how accomplished players do what they do.

    The Stevie Rae And Lonnie Mack’s of the world didn’t spend time taking lessons (IMHO) they learned the basics and then absorbed the “feel” of the music around them.
    That may be true, but it limited them severely. Neither one ever really got away from the blues scale and while they are instantly recognizable they never stray very far from formulaic (IMHO). Even SRV's stuff with Bowie never really felt "right" to me.

    Contrast that with a guitar player such as say, Jay Graydon, who knows his theory dead-nuts, and what they're able to do on-command in the studio. That's the difference. SRV "wrote" Pride and Joy where Jay wrote "Turn Your Love Around". I'd say there's a huge gap between the two - and the $$$ made shows the difference.

    The other thing, Lonnie had chops, but when I think of SRV, I think of master showman but not guitar virtuoso. He didn't play anything that the average working guitar player can't play. He just sold the hell out of it. It was all recycled Albert King that at that point, was new to most people.

    Please feel free to offer alternative viewpoints to anything above.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Closure

    Well, there is a lot of irony in this post.

    I had my lesson yesterday and my instructor told me he was ending his teaching. My last lesson will be next Monday.

    His goal had been to build up a practice ("something I can do when I retire") but I had been his only student. He'd had several "tire-kickers" but they were either not willing to do the work or commit to the time.

    We may resume private lessons at some time in the future. For the time being, we'll wrap it up next week and I'll take what I've learned and move one.

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