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Thread: About strat dissing

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    About strat dissing

    I often see people kinda diss stratocasters for being bolt-ons and having prett much everything loaded into a plastic pickguard. It always sounds very funny, the strat being one of the most successful desings in the history of musical instruments (no wonder they are still being played all around, being essentially the same instrument and still look futuristic and cool in 2019).

    Among the pearls of popular wisdom is the misconception that "if the neck is screwed in place by four screws, any neck will fit" and "how can a kit guitar (wtf?!) be masterbuilt or premium?

    Well, no need for Ouija boards to figure that Strat necks (or at least American made strat necks, which are finished by hand and adjusted to the strat they'll equip) aren't as interchangeable as people usually deem them.

    As na example, John Mayer's main strat for 10 years was a John Cruz black strat. After lots of road wear, the neck got twisted, compromising a proper setup. John had Cruz make him a perfect replica neck, and yet he hated it. It just didn't feel like the old one, though it was made by the very same máster luthier as a 100% identical replica. He then put the old neck back on the guitar and still plays it as it is.

    You can listen to a short version of the story here, at 0:41

    Last edited by S. Cane; 03-02-2019 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Damn, the OP got cropped due to some error. Now it's whole.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    I often see people kinda diss stratocasters for being bolt-ons and having prett much everything loaded into a plastic pickguard. It always sounds very funny, the strat being one of the most successful desings in the history of musical instruments (no wonder they are still being played all around, being essentially the same instrument and still look futuristic and cool in 2019).

    Among the pearls of popular wisdom is the misconception that "if the neck is screwed in place by four screws, any neck will fit" and "how can a kit guitar (wtf?!) be masterbuilt or premium?

    Well, no need for Ouija boards to figure that Strat necks (or at least American made strat necks, which are finished by hand and adjusted to the strat they'll equip) aren't '

    Sergio, if you're ever in Corona go to the factory. Nothing on the USA standards is custom fit. Parts are kitted from bins. The whole idea of the Strat was that in a time when guitars were hand-built by craftsmen, to have something cheap that would be easily mass-produced. From dunking the bodies into barrels of filler to the funky belt-sander jig to mass produce the necks they are designed first to be manufactured and second to be played.

    Now, before everyone's panties bunch up. A Panoz or Ferrari is a thing of beauty, but a Mustang will run right with them. It doesn't diminish the Fender's usefulness that it's cheap. It just works and that's what matters. Will it ever have the sexy heft of a LP Standard - no, but for what it is it's perfect.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Sergio, if you're ever in Corona go to the factory. Nothing on the USA standards is custom fit. Parts are kitted from bins. The whole idea of the Strat was that in a time when guitars were hand-built by craftsmen, to have something cheap that would be easily mass-produced. From dunking the bodies into barrels of filler to the funky belt-sander jig to mass produce the necks they are designed first to be manufactured and second to be played.

    Now, before everyone's panties bunch up. A Panoz or Ferrari is a thing of beauty, but a Mustang will run right with them. It doesn't diminish the Fender's usefulness that it's cheap. It just works and that's what matters. Will it ever have the sexy heft of a LP Standard - no, but for what it is it's perfect.

    I’ve had info from Fender’s staff that a lot of the work in the Corona plant, including the neck fitting, is done (or at least finished) by hand. Actually, the US standards were advertised as “a handmade original” for quite some time. We know that a lot of the work is machined, but from what I've been told while talking to the company when I needed to, and by what I've seen, I can bet they’re at least revised and polished up by hand.

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    My OP was cropped when I first posted it. Some error. Just edited it and put the video and the Mayer/John Cruz stuff.

    P.S. Chuck, I'm not trying to compare strats to other pricier guitars, pricewise or playwise. I'm just stating that people often think that strats are entirely modular and replaceable in their parts, but this is not ENTIRELY true. Each good strat is unique.

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    Re: About strat dissing

    I've had this one since the early 80's and I am extremely proud to be the owner of one of the most reviled Strats ever produced by Fender. It's the infamous 83 "Revised Edition". Two knobs, Free Flyte top loading bridge and output jack on the pick guard. Ebay sellers have taken to calling it the "Dan Smith Era Strat" and all you have to do to send purists into a raging fit is to say that name. You'd think with all of the disrespect this old thing gets I would have ditched it a long time ago and I guess I would have if it didn't sound and play so dog gone fine. Pay no attention to anyone or anything but your ears and fingers.

    Last edited by BEACHBUM; 03-03-2019 at 07:45 AM.

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    Forum Member Old Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Got my first Strat in '64. It was a slightly used 1962 model burst with rosewood. Another kid was selling it to raise money for a car. He was 14, and in those days you could get a license to drive during the day to work or school. Later that year I bought a new '64 SG Spl. Sold the Strat a couple years later at a profit. Since then, Strats have come and gone so often I lost count, but I'm seldom without one. Best part is that they're everywhere! Standards, MIM, MIJ, high dollar customs, Squiers, you name it. Most easily modified guitar made. Bull strong, solid, and reliable.

    To cuss and fuss about a Fender Stratocaster is a waste of time and effort. And the fancy pants Whoopy Boys and their high dollar custom whatevers can just go away. A Strat is THE most recognized guitar on the planet. And to anyone with genuine functional brain cells knows why too.
    I forgot what I was going to say...

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    Re: About strat dissing

    I play Fenders because I like the feel and the sound of them. But I wouldn't sneer at custom shop guitars, Les Pauls, PRSes. Like the Strat, they have their respectable place in the history of the guitar.

    There is truth to what OA wrote about the bins of necks and the machine cut bodies. That doesn't take anything away from the Strat, which does its thing like no other guitar. And is it possible that the reason you have stand out Strats from any year is that the right combo of neck and body find each other in the factory? Right combo of woods?
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Re: About strat dissing

    So a Warmouth neck is outta de question?

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    There is *some* truth. Like I said, I have talked (via email) to Fender and they told me that American strats are indeed finished by hand.

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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    So a Warmouth neck is outta de question?

    Not if that’s what YOU like. My point is not about being a purist. All I’m saying is: even if you swap “identical” necks, the guitar might change. They leave the factory with neck and body correctly adjusted.

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    Re: About strat dissing

    R
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    Hand-built by craftsmen? Really? When was that???
    When we were installing a pickguard on my '59 ES-225 my friend looked inside the guitar and said "did cavemen build this???"

    Other than installing a fiberboard or paper shim in the old days or adjusting the microtilt screw nowadays, regular Strat necks were never hand fitted. Like Chuck said, each part randomly comes out of a bin. If any hand fitting is done at all, it's only on the high end Masterbuilt type guitars.

    I'm not putting down Strats, I love them!

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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    Hand-built by craftsmen? Really? When was that???
    In all seriousness, there are still craftsmen hand-making guitars today! This classical guitar was hand-made by James D. Fellows in 1977. It was his seventh guitar. He's now made a total of 32 guitars.

    A friend of mine found it in his basement. It was purchased from Fellows by his sister while she was in college. She thought she'd learn how to play guitar. She never did so he stored it away. It finally became time to give it a good home, so he gave it to me. I posted online about it, and lo and behold, I was contacted by Fellows, who told me its provenance. It's in fabulous shape, and only needed a new set of (nylon) strings!


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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    When we were installing a pickguard on my '59 ES-225 my friend looked inside the guitar and said "did cavemen build this???"

    Other than installing a fiberboard or paper shim in the old days or adjusting the microtilt screw nowadays, regular Strat necks were never hand fitted. Like Chuck said, each part randomly comes out of a bin. If any hand fitting is done at all, it's only on the high end Masterbuilt type guitars.

    I'm not putting down Strats, I love them!

    They’re not hand made, and they do come out of a bin, but they do check if the fit is ok and do whatever it takes to leave it good,with no gap or whatever.

    Pick 5 squiers, 5 mim Standard strats and 5 US strats and check their neck pockets.

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    When I fasten on a strap, plug in to an amp, and strike the first chord, none of the manufacturing details means a whit to me. Every one of my Strats, from my 50th Anniversary MIM to my Custom Shop Robin Trower model have the ability to transport me to heaven.

    And that's all I care about.

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    Re: About strat dissing

    I have some odd ball and (kinda) rare-- or hard to find anyway GIBSONS---1970 Les Paul Recording-- A Blueshawk-- a Sonex 180 (bolt neck FYI) and USA Epiphone JR DC one of the last made in the Kalamazoo plant -- Gibbo headstock Epi screen print-- not to mention a 2015 LP Jr and a 2017 SG SPecial w/ mini hums.......and-- its funny
    I JUST emailed a friend not ten minutes ago and said
    "is it odd I have some VERY nice Gibsons to chose from and the guitar I grab to NOODLE on and relax at night or on the weekend or when I have 5 free minutes------ a used second hand store SUB 250.00 Fender -- bone stock Mexican STRAT!?"

    they can "hate" all they want-- but -- if I had to have "just one" itd be this strat --- its perfect its simple-- it can be fixed --repaired or replaced for little $ -- and.....like a HAMMER-- it JUST FOOGIN WORKS

    I FOUGHT the Strat for years-- maligned-- hated-- ridiculed them-- BITCHED about the "volumeknob" placement--(but still BOUGHT THEM ) never really "got it" till I picked this one up and it was just MEANT to be mine....

    This is a good pic cant see the bangs and dents in the body -- that is her USA MADE PEavey Tele cousin behind her--
    [IMG][/IMG]

    not sure to this day WTF the P.O. had on the 11th fret I have tried EVERYTHING to get the discoloration out--- oh well I can pick it out of a line up from 25 feet away--- :)

    absolutely LOVE this thing
    The only time you really live fully is from thirty to sixty. The young are slaves to dreams; the old servants of regrets. Only the middle-aged have all their five senses in the keeping of their wits.
    T. Roosevelt

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    VK,

    One of the best Strats I ever heard was a Mexican Strat. Granted, the guy had made a pup swap, but everything else was stock.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Re: About strat dissing

    Ha -- well I have been affraid to open it up and look under its frock--- but I dont THINK these are stock MIM pups----but who knows -- it sounds great feels even better-- I could care less if it had 9.00 fake china pups in it-- ot holds tune better than any trem guitar I have--- HELL holds tune better than a couple GIBSONS I have!!!!!

    When I bought it-- I was totally testing vintage --(IMHO) high dollar Strats-- Ive tried for years (my "volumeknob" screen name is because I HATE the placement of the volume knob on strats---- wellI DID-- anyway--I played some VERY high end and very middle $$ American strats a local guitar shop Jimmys Vintage music---nothing appealed to me-- I was there --- to buy -- IF I found the one---

    I was visitng with the owners brotehr "BS"ing about how funny oit is the OLD "Bullet" strats and Teles everyone HATED as cheap CHina JUNK back in the "day" are now fetching "crazy money" --- I was just going to leave as I had played (I thought) everything in the store when my leg hit a white MIM strat I had MISSED------

    took 15 seconds -- pciking it up and struming a single cord----- this-- this dinged-- and slightly battered strat--- ws IT -- the ONE---I dickered on the price (Its expected at Jimmys) and I walked out with a MIM strat for UNDER 250.00 !!!

    and -- it is perfect--- the neck the pups-- the action the (FIVE) trem springs-- the FAT trem block -- the way it WIGGLES in your grasp when you hit certain notes--- I was chosen that day--- by her --- and I am happy as all get out to play hr every day! I cant say that about my 1970 ALL ORIGINAL Les Paul Recording guitar that tips the scales at WAAAAAAAY ove rthe Strats $$$ buy in........I can tell you this-- if I had to pick only 1 it would be a damn hard decision---- I have been a Gibson guy since the 70's -- well

    I got the Mesa warmed up-- time to grab the strat ;)
    The only time you really live fully is from thirty to sixty. The young are slaves to dreams; the old servants of regrets. Only the middle-aged have all their five senses in the keeping of their wits.
    T. Roosevelt

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    So, volumeknob, are you saying you don’t like your Strat? Haha
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Volumeknob's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    That is EXACTLY what I am saying----- I dont like it one bit --- I FOOGIN LOVE IT!!!!!!
    The only time you really live fully is from thirty to sixty. The young are slaves to dreams; the old servants of regrets. Only the middle-aged have all their five senses in the keeping of their wits.
    T. Roosevelt

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    Hand-built by craftsmen? Really? When was that???
    Kenny, I consider that the time before a solid-body guitar was available. You didn't need highly skilled luthiers once the tooling was there, but still the hollow bodies of the day were all built pretty much by hand.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    I often see people kinda diss stratocasters for being bolt-ons and having prett much everything loaded into a plastic pickguard. It always sounds very funny, the strat being one of the most successful desings in the history of musical instruments (no wonder they are still being played all around, being essentially the same instrument and still look futuristic and cool in 2019).

    Among the pearls of popular wisdom is the misconception that "if the neck is screwed in place by four screws, any neck will fit" and "how can a kit guitar (wtf?!) be masterbuilt or premium?

    Well, no need for Ouija boards to figure that Strat necks (or at least American made strat necks, which are finished by hand and adjusted to the strat they'll equip) aren't as interchangeable as people usually deem them.

    As na example, John Mayer's main strat for 10 years was a John Cruz black strat. After lots of road wear, the neck got twisted, compromising a proper setup. John had Cruz make him a perfect replica neck, and yet he hated it. It just didn't feel like the old one, though it was made by the very same máster luthier as a 100% identical replica. He then put the old neck back on the guitar and still plays it as it is.

    You can listen to a short version of the story here, at 0:41

    My view is with luck a few gems will always come out that will be a perfect match of materials. With 4 bolts it 'is' by definition interchangeable. Were I to remove the neck on mine and replace it, not like it and put the original back on I suspect no change in tone or anything else would happen. Are you proposing that is incorrect?

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    Forum Member Old Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Let's face it. The fifties was the dawn of the Second Industrial Revolution in this country. Polishing up after World War I I, we had begun to produce things again just for us, and not for the world at war. Musical instruments, automobiles, homes, all being mass-produced for consumers in this country. Now here's my point exactly. The Stratocaster, as with the Telecaster, both made with the concept of mass production for a reasonable price. Is there anything wrong with that? Of course not. It is what it is. In many forms, it was an affordable musical instrument that in the hands of a novice or a pro, provided an excellent base for producing good music. And also during the fifties began the modification syndrome that has overwhelmed us today. We used to be happy with what the factory gave us. But during the fifties, and moving forward in time, this business of modification has become a separate industry unto itself. Look how many companies sprang up to produce modified parts for everything. Houses, firearms, musical instruments, automobiles, and the list goes on into Infinity. We live in a world of modification now, so why not the Stratocaster with its bolt on neck and plastic pickguard housing the pickups and electronics for the instrument. What better platform for you to modify your guitar? I rest my case and now step down off of my little soapbox y'all have a wonderful day.
    I forgot what I was going to say...

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    Forum Member Volumeknob's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    My view is with luck a few gems will always come out that will be a perfect match of materials. With 4 bolts it 'is' by definition interchangeable. Were I to remove the neck on mine and replace it, not like it and put the original back on I suspect no change in tone or anything else would happen. Are you proposing that is incorrect?
    Ive done that very thing -- tone was not altered FEEL was -- playability was -- frets and nuts and tuners were --- but the overall tone was not .
    The only time you really live fully is from thirty to sixty. The young are slaves to dreams; the old servants of regrets. Only the middle-aged have all their five senses in the keeping of their wits.
    T. Roosevelt

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    Re: About strat dissing

    And P.S. - I do not consider this a diss. Actually it is a strength of sorts. On any of my Pauls if I don't like the neck it's 'tough toenails'. I hate my R0 neck. I'm only keeping it because it sounds good and it's the only R0 I have. R0 necks and me don't get along. But maybe someday I'll like it. I still have to get the wax Mr. Angler recommended. I love the neck other than the splinters.

  26. #26
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    And P.S. - I do not consider this a diss. Actually it is a strength of sorts. On any of my Pauls if I don't like the neck it's 'tough toenails'. I hate my R0 neck. I'm only keeping it because it sounds good and it's the only R0 I have. R0 necks and me don't get along. But maybe someday I'll like it. I still have to get the wax Mr. Angler recommended. I love the neck other than the splinters.
    Couldn't you get it sanded and refinished? I know that's a lot of stuff to do on an interchangeable neck, but if you think the neck is special because of the way it plays for you, it might be something to think about.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Re: About strat dissing

    I could sand and refinish it, no need to send it out. I have refinished countless fiddles over the years.

    I asked this on a different thread and the consensus was to wax it instead.

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    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by Volumeknob View Post
    Ive done that very thing -- tone was not altered FEEL was -- playability was -- frets and nuts and tuners were --- but the overall tone was not .

    Exactly. The new neck most of the times will feel and play different, not only because it’s new. The fit won’t be quite the same. This is especially true if the guitar was assembled and adjusted by hand like I said.

    JM’s strat had a replica neck made by the same master luthier, with the “same” wear and tear, and the owner hated it.

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    Re: About strat dissing

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    Hand-built by craftsmen? Really? When was that???
    Fender Custom Shop is where they are hand built

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