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Thread: Too Many Notes

  1. #1
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Too Many Notes

    This weekend, I pulled out the Les Paul, put Wings Over America on the player, and started to play along.

    It gave me a new appreciation for the way Paul McCartney arranged his songs. I played along with the first album side, the rocky bits, and realized that the rhythm guitar plays very sparingly. At first, I was playing power chords and fills, but it was too much. So by the second song, I backed off from playing "too many notes" and played economically.

    That reinforced what I already new. I always tried to impress this upon my last band, but everybody went full-force 99% of the time and had no sense of dynamics. If my new band takes off, I'm going to make sure that the players appreciate this point. Sometimes, as we know, less is more.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  2. #2
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Less is indeed more.

    And me, I've learned that while dealing with my own limitations as a soloist.

    When we ditched the other guitar player (I played rhythm, he played lead) the rest of the band didn't want anyone else to fill, so they said they wanted me to be the only guitarist. Then I had to roll up my sleeves and do the entire job. Since I am no jam guitarist, I can't improvise anything and used to be a classical player, I had to impress my own style into the soloing I had to do.

    For instance, when I play Smoke on the Water I don't solo like Blackmore, I make my own arrangements within the key and play something that sounds a bit more like Gilmour, whose style is easier for me to use.

    And you know, in the end I like what I do.

  3. #3

    Re: Too Many Notes

    I don't know if this has any relevance here but I've been listening to and playing a good deal of King Crimson and Santana lately and I'm finding it incredible how minimal yet masterful some of the most emotionally compelling parts of certain songs truly are. There are occasions where my brain and my fingers get caught up in the moment and overcompensate. In some of these instances I find myself dissecting the parts and realizing there are fewer notes, more subtlety, etc. I guess that it's easy for me at times, to get overwhelmed by the overall dynamics and lose touch with the simplicity of what's actually there.

    I apologize if this isn't along the lines of what you're speaking about, Willie but just from what you've said, it would make me quite intrigued to check out your band if I happened to have the opportunity. I played for a few years with another guitarist that over-shot everything... dominating, over-saturating, and ultimately alienating himself from the rest of the band. He was fun to jam with in the living-room... however not so much on stage. He was a good friend and he sang much better than I did which was the main reason why I continued playing with him, but he really inhibited any real progression of the band itself.

  4. #4
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter View Post
    I played for a few years with another guitarist that over-shot everything... dominating, over-saturating, and ultimately alienating himself from the rest of the band. He was fun to jam with in the living-room... however not so much on stage. He was a good friend and he sang much better than I did which was the main reason why I continued playing with him, but he really inhibited any real progression of the band itself.

    That made me wonder if you played with my former lead player

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    HPD, that's exactly what I was talking about. Your comments are interesting and totally relevant.

    I forgot who on here was saying something semi-recently about how he often times plays three note chords and that's all he needed for his band. That's stuck with me as a great approach to playing in a band.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter View Post
    I don't know if this has any relevance here but I've been listening to and playing a good deal of King Crimson and Santana lately and I'm finding it incredible how minimal yet masterful some of the most emotionally compelling parts of certain songs truly are.
    This is one of the reasons I like listening to Robin Trower. I find he can put more pure emotion into a single note than can many a shredder/fire-starter guitarist.

  7. #7
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    For instance, when I play Smoke on the Water I don't solo like Blackmore, I make my own arrangements within the key and play something that sounds a bit more like Gilmour, whose style is easier for me to use.

    And you know, in the end I like what I do.
    Blackmore is great, but I prefer Gilmour's style. He's not fast, and he rarely over-plays. I like guitarists and bands who play for the song, going where the song needs him/her to go rather than going for solo glory.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  8. #8
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Warren Haynes doesn't need to shred to play something as cool as this:

    https://youtu.be/X0oBuFUzFcg

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    Forum Member Laker's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    It probably doesn't mean squat here since most of my posts are ignored, but I'm in the middle of learning an entire rehearsed four hour show to be able to play without mistake in six weeks. At this point I've got about 25% totally under control...life goes on.

  10. #10

    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by OldStrummer View Post
    This is one of the reasons I like listening to Robin Trower. I find he can put more pure emotion into a single note than can many a shredder/fire-starter guitarist.
    Echoes and Shine On You Crazy Diamond are like that for me. There's still a good deal of Trowers work that to this day, leaves me trying to catch up and sort things out lol.

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    Forum Member CoyotesGator's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Laker View Post
    It probably doesn't mean squat here since most of my posts are ignored, but I'm in the middle of learning an entire rehearsed four hour show to be able to play without mistake in six weeks. At this point I've got about 25% totally under control...life goes on.
    Never ignored by me my fellow four string. Four hours mistake free? I can’t do that. There will always be spots I look back on where I could have done a better job. Would anyone else notice?
    Maybe another bassist, a really good one hopefully. Always play with the intention of perfection,
    life goes on.

    trop de notes, mon cher Mozart.

    To play many notes is acceptable, to play them wrongly, well...

    I prefer to play only what is required, sometimes I get excited.
    What happend?
    Who let the magic smoke out?

  12. #12
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Laker View Post
    It probably doesn't mean squat here since most of my posts are ignored, but I'm in the middle of learning an entire rehearsed four hour show to be able to play without mistake in six weeks. At this point I've got about 25% totally under control...life goes on.
    Not ignored by me! There may be some topics on which I have no knowledge, expertise, or opinion, but I read every post that appears. That means yours, too.

  13. #13
    Forum Member melody's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    I love to sit back in the mix play three note rhythm parts for whatever song make it as simple as possible. I For me its a lot of fun to let the other musicians keys, guitarist, bass whoever do what they do to just go with it. It adds so much with so little most have a hard time understanding .. Less is more..

  14. #14
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Melody, right on!

    Coyotegator, I was thinking of Amadeus when I titled the thread. I need to watch that again.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  15. #15
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Laker, I always enjoy your input, even when I don’t reply.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  16. #16

    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by CoyotesGator View Post
    Never ignored by me my fellow four string. Four hours mistake free? I can’t do that. There will always be spots I look back on where I could have done a better job. Would anyone else notice?
    Maybe another bassist, a really good one hopefully. Always play with the intention of perfection,
    life goes on.

    trop de notes, mon cher Mozart.

    To play many notes is acceptable, to play them wrongly, well...

    I prefer to play only what is required, sometimes I get excited.
    Same... If I can go an entire song without missing a note, I'm doing good! Several hours worth of any songs, even just backing tracks... not likely lol.

    I recently learned KC's Starless and boy oh boy that's a song that even the slightest mistake stands out like a sore thumb... No where to hide lol.

    Sometimes for me, it's just a matter of trying to separate the rhythm from the lead and sometime's even from the bass or synth. When you grow up with some of these songs and know them backwards and forwards, it can be difficult to re-learn just one part.

  17. #17
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Laker View Post
    It probably doesn't mean squat here since most of my posts are ignored, but I'm in the middle of learning an entire rehearsed four hour show to be able to play without mistake in six weeks. At this point I've got about 25% totally under control...life goes on.

    I like your posts too

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    Re: Too Many Notes

    ^^+27.7316! ^^

  19. #19
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Laker View Post
    It probably doesn't mean squat here since most of my posts are ignored, but I'm in the middle of learning an entire rehearsed four hour show to be able to play without mistake in six weeks. At this point I've got about 25% totally under control...life goes on.
    By the way I know you do gig/jam, so why don't you check in the TFF Bands thread I just created?

  20. #20
    Forum Member Frat Rettle's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Laker, I enjoy your contributions.

    Take care, stay well.
    I have decided to be happy because it's good for my health.

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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Too many notes reminds me of Stevie-Ray Vs. B.B. The Master B does more with one. Though I do loves me some Stevie... Try this guy for size:



    I think I'm just gonna mail him my basses...

  22. #22
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    looks like he already has a B&G bass, I'll take yours if he doesn't need it

    that was good and I liked that he didn't get all slappy and poppy. Not that they aren't legit techniques but some guys make that their only thing they do and I get tired of that about halfway through the second verse of the first song they play.

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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Jes' Classsss!

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Seems to me "Too many" isn't a constant but a variable. It totally depends on context and where you're driving the song to. What might not be enough for Jumping' Jack Flash is way too much for Mustang Sally (when done the groovy, authentic Wilson Pickett way that song is like liquid sex.)

    For solos, I like to build them. Rookie move #1 is to come out of the gate showing everything you've got. You need to build the solo, keep it grabbing the audience's attention as it goes on. I love to play the "Lights" solo form Journey live. It just keeps getting stronger and stronger and getting more and more motion as it goes along. Always a crowd pleaser. We also do some VH and I just love the way EVH builds a solo to a blistering crescendo with the sustains on the tonic as it ends. Robin Ford is another good example.

    Mr Blue Sky needs a Power chord bounce where Pride and Joy uses full barre rakes.

    It's all about listening and adapting.

    One thing I urge newer players or students to do is to learn to play rhythm using rock power chords on the low strings. This frees up all the space in the middle for the vocals and solos and also makes playing super easy. That's why they're the foundation of modern R & R playing.

    Chuck
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    One of the HARDEST things to learn about music!!! I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been through this with others. There has to be space in music, but most people are so worried about playing ALL the notes and licks they know. Just last Saturday I was playing in a guitar circle at a party, one guy was acting as the band leader... Being bossy, acting like he was SO amazing... And he couldn’t play the chords or songs if his life depended on it. All he could do was noodle and wank off the whole time. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I couldn’t care less about WTF he was playing! Guy just couldn’t wait for the verses or choruses to end.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Re: Too Many Notes

    I am also getting very tired of all the people who feel they have to do 20 scales with their voice instead of holding a note.

    If'n ya wanna yodel, yodel ya yo-yo!

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckocaster View Post
    One of the HARDEST things to learn about music!!! I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been through this with others. There has to be space in music, but most people are so worried about playing ALL the notes and licks they know. Just last Saturday I was playing in a guitar circle at a party, one guy was acting as the band leader... Being bossy, acting like he was SO amazing... And he couldn’t play the chords or songs if his life depended on it. All he could do was noodle and wank off the whole time. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I couldn’t care less about WTF he was playing! Guy just couldn’t wait for the verses or choruses to end.
    A guitar circle with a jerk? Sounds like a "circle..." Nah, I won't go there.

  28. #28
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    I am also getting very tired of all the people who feel they have to do 20 scales with their voice instead of holding a note.

    If'n ya wanna yodel, yodel ya yo-yo!
    Totally agree
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  29. #29
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    There are only two constants in being a musician:

    Criticism and Rejection. You must learn to master both.

    Both are your friends. They're benevolent benefactors pointing you to where you need to apply yourself.

    If you can't take either one or both, you are destined to be very unfulfilled as a player.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  30. #30
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckocaster View Post
    One of the HARDEST things to learn about music!!! I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been through this with others. There has to be space in music, but most people are so worried about playing ALL the notes and licks they know. Just last Saturday I was playing in a guitar circle at a party, one guy was acting as the band leader... Being bossy, acting like he was SO amazing... And he couldn’t play the chords or songs if his life depended on it. All he could do was noodle and wank off the whole time. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I couldn’t care less about WTF he was playing! Guy just couldn’t wait for the verses or choruses to end.
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. I know this is blasphemy, but as much as I think SRV was an incredible guitarist, I can't listen to a whole album of his. The constant noodling just gets me. Again, I think he's an incredible guitar player, and what I'm saying is a matter of opinion, not necessarily the only judgement anyone should make about him.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. I know this is blasphemy, but as much as I think SRV was an incredible guitarist, I can't listen to a whole album of his. The constant noodling just gets me. Again, I think he's an incredible guitar player, and what I'm saying is a matter of opinion, not necessarily the only judgement anyone should make about him.
    OMG! That's the way I feel about him! Love his playing, but I need a rest after a couple of songs. I have to keep this real quiet though because there is a statue of him about 15 miles away...

  32. #32
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Too Many Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    OMG! That's the way I feel about him! Love his playing, but I need a rest after a couple of songs. I have to keep this real quiet though because there is a statue of him about 15 miles away...
    shhhhhh quiet voice
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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