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Thread: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

  1. #1
    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I saw an article on Fender's web site stating that since Rosewood has now been placed on the CITES list (endangered species, in short), they will no longer be making guitars with rosewood necks/fingerboards. The guy at the Guitar Center I visited today in Boston showed me a Tele with an all-rosewood neck and headstock and said these guitars were going to be the hottest thing, since people were going to be crawling all over themselves to get one of the "last ones."

    Fender's article says that in their lower end guitars (Standard, Deluxe and Classic) they have transitioned to a wood called pau ferro. Having used ebony in their Jim Root series of guitars, they say the decision to move to ebony in their American Elite series was an easy one.

    Cool.

    Except, I'm curious about this.

    The very first guitar I bought new was an acoustic 12-string. It had an ebony fingerboard, and I loved the way that guitar played! I've always wondered why more guitar makers don't make ebony fingerboards. I figured it was a cost thing, thinking ebony costs more than rosewood. But perhaps I'm wrong.

    My preference for Fender guitars has been maple. But my personal opinion is that when their ebony fingerboards start making it on the scene in numbers, they might be worth checking out. As for rosewood? I have rosewood necks on my Gibson guitars, and they just don't feel as smooth to me as the Fender maple ones.

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Ebony? I thought that was also a CITIES wood. Gibson is getting away from it, apparently only on the top of the line custom shop whatever they're called LPC have it now. Everything else that used to be ebony is now richlite.

    never played a strat with an ebony board, that was always super strat territory

    my first experience with maple was unfortunately my new 1974 Stratocaster and it was a hunk of steaming shit. The poly on the neck was all over the frets, it felt like I was playing on flypaper. My next guitar was an Ibeenhad LP copy and that was vastly more comfortable to play and I didn't get another maple neck guitar until my MIJ late '80s tele which I bought in the early '00s. With a properly finished neck that as smooth and easy to play as any rosewood. I'm still slightly biased to rosewood as it wears better in my opinion.
    Last edited by DanTheBluesMan; 10-24-2017 at 07:38 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I wonder if people might be surprised if they were to do a blindfolded test of different neck-woods? To me it's all about the finishing... not the type of wood. My maple-necked guitars at least seem to have better sustain and in general are a bit brighter ( although so many other factors play into that as well) but my solid rosewood Strat albeit somewhat darker sounding, feels no more or less comfortable than any of my other favorite guitars with assorted neck and fret-board combinations. I have several guitars with maple fret-boards and while they're not my favorites, I don't think that the maple plays into it... rather the guitars in general aren't really my thing.

  4. #4
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I am one of the skeptical ones that don't believe the FB wood affects tone, at least not in a noticeable way.

    Anyway, Pau Ferro is a good tonewood, many luthiers use it in acoustic guitars and it is as good as RW or Ebony. The transition isn't a big deal tonewise, really.

    Now, the purists will whine. That's a fact. Just as they did when Gibson used baked maple on a handful of series of SGs and Les Pauls...

    Me, I wouldn't care. If I bought a Fender with Pau Ferro and liked how it looks and sounds, why not?

    We should be happy that it's still real wood. I think in a couple of decades we'll see mostly processed synthetic materials.

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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I have had Brazilian ringing in my hand when rapped. I believe.

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    Forum Member CoyotesGator's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    I have had Brazilian ringing in my hand when rapped. I believe.

    Hickory was the worst.

    Everytime I had a bad swing and fouled one off.

    I swear on nights when I’m really tired and laying in bed I can feel my elbows still pinging from that last foul ball 30+ years ago.

    Oh, wait, nevermind.
    What happend?
    Who let the magic smoke out?

  7. #7
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I really like ebony fretboards. I have 4 Carvins with them, including a Bolt (superstrat). I like the color and how it gets burnished as it ages. It feels nice, too.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Ebony is great and I've always considered it an upgrade over rosewood. I believe the Strat Ultras were ebony boards. Nice guitars.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member gibsonjunkie's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Most of my acoustics are rosewood or ebony. My newest Gibson (HP665SB) has Richlite - basically a composite that is actually really nice. How it will hold up I don't know but my initial impression is that it will be fine.
    "We catched fish and talked, and we took a swim now and then to keep off sleepiness." Mark Twain

  10. #10

    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie View Post
    Most of my acoustics are rosewood or ebony. My newest Gibson (HP665SB) has Richlite - basically a composite that is actually really nice. How it will hold up I don't know but my initial impression is that it will be fine.
    Richlite is great despite some people's skewed opinions on the material. None of the inherent issues that wood sometimes presents. Feels great/ looks great and very durable.

  11. #11
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter View Post
    Richlite is great despite some people's skewed opinions on the material. None of the inherent issues that wood sometimes presents. Feels great/ looks great and very durable.
    What is Richlite made of again?

  12. #12

    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    This article explains it in detail a lot better than I could...

    From the gibson.com site:

    "For years, fretboards have been made out of wood because frankly, nothing was better. But then 70 years ago, there was a need for a wood replacement in aerospace and other industries where hardness, consistency, and smoothness had to be perfect. A new option called Richlite, which was based on wood products but much stronger and consistent, was developed and quickly became popular for demanding applications.
    Gibson USA has always been about creating a better guitar, and back in the mid- ’90s started looking into whether there might be comparable alternatives to the conventional fretboard. None of them really panned out except for Richlite, which appeared promising. However, the question of whether to use a different fretboard material wasn’t a question to be taken lightly.
    After two decades of research and discussions with guitarists, Gibson determined that Richlite was not only the best alternative to woods like ebony, but was actually superior. Although the downside is that it’s more expensive to make guitars with Richlite fretboards than ebony, there are some very attractive benefits.

    This Richlite fingerboard on the Gibson SG Light 7 has the look and feel of ebony, but offers several advantages.
    Perhaps most importantly, the quality is consistently high—you don’t have to wade through batches of Richlite to find “good” Richlite. Also, many guitar players feel strings bend more smoothly on a Richlite fingerboard, and tonally speaking,
    virtually no one can tell the difference in a blind test. Another little-known advantage is with white guitars. The pigments in rosewood and ebony can “bleed” during the finishing process, and end up coloring the white finish. Richlite won’t do that; it’s also scratch, heat, and stain-resistant, as well as being non-toxic, non-warping, and made in the USA. Finally, neck bow issues are less likely because you don’t have two different wood species expanding and contracting at different rates, and frets don’t loosen due to wood shrinkage.
    Think of it this way: if guitars had always been made with Richlite and someone figured out you could use ebony, it’s doubtful people would want to switch to a material that created problems instead of solved them. The many positive comments on message boards from guitar players who have used both ebony and Richlite confirm that for playability and functionality, Richlite is at least equal to ebony—and many guitarists even prefer it. In a world where ebony is becoming increasingly problematic, that’s good news for those us who love to play guitar."

    http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle...ngerboard.aspx

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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I don't make my FB's out of aluminum or acrylic either...Been looking for a 355 for a while. I want ebony.

  14. #14
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter View Post
    This article explains it in detail a lot better than I could...

    From the gibson.com site:

    "For years, fretboards have been made out of wood because frankly, nothing was better. But then 70 years ago, there was a need for a wood replacement in aerospace and other industries where hardness, consistency, and smoothness had to be perfect. A new option called Richlite, which was based on wood products but much stronger and consistent, was developed and quickly became popular for demanding applications.
    Gibson USA has always been about creating a better guitar, and back in the mid- ’90s started looking into whether there might be comparable alternatives to the conventional fretboard. None of them really panned out except for Richlite, which appeared promising. However, the question of whether to use a different fretboard material wasn’t a question to be taken lightly.
    After two decades of research and discussions with guitarists, Gibson determined that Richlite was not only the best alternative to woods like ebony, but was actually superior. Although the downside is that it’s more expensive to make guitars with Richlite fretboards than ebony, there are some very attractive benefits.

    This Richlite fingerboard on the Gibson SG Light 7 has the look and feel of ebony, but offers several advantages.
    Perhaps most importantly, the quality is consistently high—you don’t have to wade through batches of Richlite to find “good” Richlite. Also, many guitar players feel strings bend more smoothly on a Richlite fingerboard, and tonally speaking,
    virtually no one can tell the difference in a blind test. Another little-known advantage is with white guitars. The pigments in rosewood and ebony can “bleed” during the finishing process, and end up coloring the white finish. Richlite won’t do that; it’s also scratch, heat, and stain-resistant, as well as being non-toxic, non-warping, and made in the USA. Finally, neck bow issues are less likely because you don’t have two different wood species expanding and contracting at different rates, and frets don’t loosen due to wood shrinkage.
    Think of it this way: if guitars had always been made with Richlite and someone figured out you could use ebony, it’s doubtful people would want to switch to a material that created problems instead of solved them. The many positive comments on message boards from guitar players who have used both ebony and Richlite confirm that for playability and functionality, Richlite is at least equal to ebony—and many guitarists even prefer it. In a world where ebony is becoming increasingly problematic, that’s good news for those us who love to play guitar."

    http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle...ngerboard.aspx

    Yeap. Bad for the purists, cool for the guys who are strictly players.

    As for me, I'll buy and play a guitar with Richlite anytime, though I do like the fact that I have a strat made of Alder, Maple and Rosewood to show to my grandsons. I might even let them touch it. On occasion.

  15. #15
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I'm kind of torn about the Richlite. I want a Custom and I naturally want ebony. I've played a '59 triple pickup with PAFs and I've been ruined.

  16. #16
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    I'm actually more curious about the new Pau Ferro fingerboards.

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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    It sounds fine. And it is wood. The pics don't quite catch it below but it has very "digital" looking grain on mine. Kinda like snakeskin. This is a Collings City Limits Deluxe. (edit- this is ziricoat. Feels like ebony, looks like snakeskin, sounds great)



    Last edited by renderit; 10-29-2017 at 08:47 AM.

  18. #18
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    That's Rosewood, right?

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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Nope. I was thinking Pao Ferro, but now I notice that's not right. Now I can't remember what it's called. Let me look it up if I can still find it...

    Leaning towards snakewood...

    Last edited by renderit; 10-27-2017 at 05:21 PM.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Sérgio View Post
    I'm actually more curious about the new Pau Ferro fingerboards.
    I have a Pau Ferro, seems nice. I don't think about when I play so I guess that means it's OK.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  21. #21
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    I have a Pau Ferro, seems nice. I don't think about when I play so I guess that means it's OK.

    Pau Ferro is a very popular tonewood here. My country has a strong acoustic guitar tradition, we've been making them for more than 100 years and people build excellent ones using that wood.

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    Re: Fender Replacing Rosewood With Ebony


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