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Thread: Relics....

  1. #1
    Forum Member GregsGuitars's Avatar
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    Relics....

    I must say that the "newer" reliced guitars just do not float my boat, BUT the Cunetto produced relics for Fenders custom shop back in the day were great guitars. I will never understand why Fender let him go.....What's your opinion?

  2. #2
    Forum Member redisburning's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I think this is the best guitar I've ever owned or played (including PRS, Gibson CS, etc), my 96 1960 relic:


    Untitled by P M, on Flickr

    I have played this guitar every single day since I got it except for a bit of vacation time.

  3. #3
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I say "to each his own".

    Road worn guitars have my unchained love.

    Artificial ones just don't.

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Geez, Kenny, now ya got me wanting one, and I've never wanted one.

    Your collection is sickkkkkkkk!
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I'm with Sérgio on this on, but I'm wavering...


    I played this guitar at a local shop and it was delicious! The price is higher than I've ever paid for a guitar, and if it weren't for the relic-ing, I'd have paid for it happily.


    I still might. I have it bookmarked...


  6. #6
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I don't know enough about CS guitars to know, but do they make non-relics that have the same comfortable feel I always hear about?
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Gravity Jim's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I don't give a flip about relic'ing. You want a guitar meticulously finished in nitro and then battered with chains and belt sander, knock yourself out. I would just feel like a complete dork playing one, but I have friends who get inspired by them.

    I guess as a stage prop, it might mean something, but not to me.

  8. #8
    Forum Member melody's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    4K for a bolt on neck guitar is insane Fender is raping the strat just as Harley did with motorcycles Can the wood, parts and pups be that much better? Hell no! .. I guess as the old saying goes a fool and money... Just like the other old saying : to each ones own...

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    Re: Relics....

    I love them. They play better, they look better, they're just special guitars. Believe me, you play one you'll never want another guitar.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Gravity Jim's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    I love them. They play better, they look better, they're just special guitars. Believe me, you play one you'll never want another guitar.
    Well, I am sorry to say that you're wrong on this one. I've played several, and not one of them could hold a candle to my home-brew Zencaster, which I have spent approx. $1,200 to $1,300 on, including its case. That's the guitar that convinced I didn't ever want another Strat.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Gravity Jim's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by melody View Post
    4K for a bolt on neck guitar is insane Fender is raping the strat just as Harley did with motorcycles Can the wood, parts and pups be that much better? Hell no! .. I guess as the old saying goes a fool and money... Just like the other old saying : to each ones own...
    Agreed. I think I said on another thread the if you spent over $2,000 for a screw-together guitar, you were nuts. Even 2 large is pushing it.

    (Source: my Warmoth Strat, which can't be improved upon and cost well under $1,500.)

  12. #12
    Forum Member Gravity Jim's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Here's the thing:

    A great Strat (let's say) becomes great over times, as it's owner dials in the pickups and vibrato and set-up to his or her own tastes. The result is a guitar you can call "great" because it never lets you down, responds to your picking, sings out no matter where you grab the note or how you treat it afterward (bend, vibrato, whatever).

    When I am playing a guitar like that, I don't think for even one second what the guitar looks like or what I look like playing it. I'm just making music.

    That's why I would feel dumb strapping on a relic. Because when you're into it, the way the guitar looks doesn't matter at all. And the argument that relics are the best guitars... please. The "best" guitars aren't made... they're adjusted over time.

  13. #13
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    Re: Relics....

    Hands down, the best Strat I've ever owned was a '56 Custom shop relic. Kenny's experience was mine as well. Buying a guitar that had been pre-scratched and dinged may seem odd to some, but the minute I held it and played it through a DR, I absolutely had to have it. No Strat I've owned before or since has sounded or felt that good.

    The thing is this: if you found a used, somewhat beat-up, vintage guitar that felt and sounded that amazing to you, you'd buy it (if you had the means) for those two reasons alone. The fact that some previous player was the one who beat it up and not you wouldn't matter a lick. Nor would you have any idea if that previous owner beat it up by rocking out five nights a week for thirty years, or instead if he/she sat at workbench and meticulously created those wear-marks with tools.

    So how is it different that a Fender worker did it? How does knowing for certain that it was done "on purpose" suddenly make you a poser for wanting it? Again, if the guitar speaks to you on the ONLY levels that matter, playability and sound, who the hell cares what it looks like one way or another?

    If a person played a CS Relic and it didn't speak to them, fine. That person, however, is in the VAST minority of players who have tried the CS guitars out, which I can state unequivocally from personally knowing half a hundred players in my area, and having moderated this site for 15 years, and having been a member of a bunch of others. The Fender CS Relic guitars are dynamite.

  14. #14
    Forum Member redisburning's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Own one for a while and really get to know it before you talk **** IMO. Please note that talk **** has a certain threshold of certainty and negativity that has to be met and is not intended to include all forms of criticism.

    If you think your partscaster is great good for you. I've owned a Danocaster and Dan makes some of the most respected from parts guitars out there. That's why his guitars are going above list price secondhand right now. My CS Fender is better IMO, and so someone trying to sell me some "fact" that their home assembled guitar is better than a guitar that sent the work of one of the best guys out there to the chopping block is a joke and a half. Again if that's your opinion that's fine, as long as you state it as such. And feel free to get ignored if your only experience with the guitars you are claiming yours is better than is playing them at a Guitar Center.

    The fact that the guitars bring out the self-victimizing behavior is astonishing to me. A good guitar should be celebrated barring something really awful (like an unethical builder).

  15. #15
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Thanks. I admire many guitars, but there are so many more that are higher on my list. I hate it when my own guitars get dinged and not into the ready made dings in the Relics, but nearly everyone who's played one for any amount of time tells me they play wonderfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    Thanks!

    If you're serious... I'd recommend getting it from Wildwood... Something in specific "reissue"... Like this, 2015 Limited Edition 1955 Stratocaster Relic... To me, the 9.5" fretboard radius and the 6105 fret wire seals the deal...
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Gravity Jim's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    Well Jim, You completely missed the point... Not that this surpises me, but on the off chance that you thought my statements were open for debate??? They're not! I'm really not interested in your opinion on this subject...

    On a side note... I believe that the anti-Custom Shop, anti-Vintage vibe on TFF is what discourages those types of people from contributing here... That's not just my opinion...
    Well, if you don't want your opinions challenged, don't post them online.

    Dont worry about the days to come. I'm sick of this crap from the last few days, so I won't be back.

    And the thing I liked about this forum is that it wasn't overrun with jagoffs who think everything is crap unless it cost 4K and you never heard of it. But hey... you've managed to chase off most of the musicians, so why not? Then it can be just as worthless as every other guitar forum.

  17. #17
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    It's astonishing how this subject can lead to bitter disagreements and make even the most well-meaning forum members get pi$$ed off...

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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravity Jim View Post
    Well, if you don't want your opinions challenged, don't post them online.

    Dont worry about the days to come. I'm sick of this crap from the last few days, so I won't be back.

    And the thing I liked about this forum is that it wasn't overrun with jagoffs who think everything is crap unless it cost 4K and you never heard of it. But hey... you've managed to chase off most of the musicians, so why not? Then it can be just as worthless as every other guitar forum.
    no wait please don't leave

  19. #19
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    We feel fiercely about what we like and don't like--claro!

    But hey guys, there are enough people screaming at each other on social media. Could we return to civil discussion? Find common ground here in our little township?
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  20. #20
    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gravity Jim View Post
    I'm sick of this crap from the last few days, so I won't be back.
    Ummm....did I wander back to TFF at a bad time? No matter, I've been on forums enough to know each one goes through ups and downs...like any family. I ain't scared! Anyhoo...as for the relic'ing thing...I'm kind of with Sergio on this one. I'm not too hip on artificial relic'ing, but I don't look down on those who have or like a relic'ed guitar. I used to be more adamantly opposed to it, but I guess my attitude has softened. It's really none of my business what anyone likes in a guitar. I'm not being asked to pay for it!

  21. #21
    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    All I'm saying is, premium instruments ARE premium instruments...
    I'm inclined to agree with this, which prompts a question. AND, this is meant purely to learn something, not to invigorate an argument.

    Anyway, what does the Custom Shop do to their guitars which makes them better than the rest of the guitars coming out of Fender?

  22. #22
    Forum Member melody's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Got dam some feathers are flying over a guitar with scratches.... People getting butt hurt over others disagreeing with a opinion gee one would think it's R verses D with vagina hat's and signs bitching about who is right.

  23. #23
    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    For one thing, they are built from premium woods and components... I also think that the attention to Quality Assurance is at a higher standard...
    How would you compare that to, say, an American Standard Strat or Tele? I think I have a sense of what you're saying. My son has a MiM Strat from the early 2000's. I have a 2006 USA Diamond Anniversary Strat. Mine is definitely a cut above his. Though, sometimes I play his because it really is a fun guitar to play and it isn't a bad guitar! I understand, though, that the MiMs are much improved today. So, I guess I'm curious as to the level of superiority in quality of the CS Fenders to regular American Fenders.

  24. #24
    Forum Member FrankJohnson's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    For one thing, they are built from premium woods and components... I also think that the attention to Quality Assurance is at a higher standard...
    I will say that you can usually "feel" a difference in the refinement of the finished product. Most seem to have a m ore polished - worn in, cleaner .....just mo better feel to me.

    That said - I played a squier bass last night that felt, sounded, looked on par with any american standard I have ever played. I had trouble believing it.

    I love my road worn Jazz - and it is still my number one! I have never played a custom shop bass - so I can't compare - this is my old chevy truck of basses. looks, feel, sound.......all there in spades for what I Like. anyone who finds a reason to give me crap about it is just showing me who they are and where their head is. at that point - I may feel free to respond accordingly
    Kenny Belmont
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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post
    I've owned a few American Standards over the years, and I still own an American Vintage Series Strat... I don't think that there is anything wrong with American Standards at all... They're just not my cup of tea... I'm not a big fan of the two point modern trem, nor the modern neck profile, but that's just me... The MIM Strats are an absolute bargain...

    The CS guitars have something going on that has to be experienced to be appreciated... They play what you play, or more accurately, the expression or passion of the notes in my mind's ear, flow off this instrument without thinking about it... It gives me what I put into it, the way I expect, without exception... My American Vintage Series Strat is a great guitar, but if you were to play both on the same day, back to back, the difference would be life altering... At least it was for me... And I'm NOT just talking about my Strat... My friends CS Nocaster is the same way... They're just exceptional instruments, plain and simple...
    I get completely what you're saying. I just had my third Strat (and first MIM) adjusted slightly yesterday, and now it plays every bit as nicely as my Artist Series Eric Clapton Strat. But I played a Custom Shop "lightly" reliced Strat at the shop where I had mine adjusted, and it was pure gravy! I'm currently looking at two CS Strats, and it's beginning to feel like one of them is coming home with me...

  26. #26
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I think the issue is that this thread began with a discussion of relic jobs, and then got subtly deviated to custom shop vs main production, and there lies the mine camp.

    My opinion above was just about relicing.

    As for custom shop stuff, well.

    The general principle is "you get what you pay for". Statements like "my Epi beats any Gibson" or "I wouldn't let go of my Squier for any Fender" are BS, indeed.

    Now, when you reach the "standard" line, I think things get a little bit more personal. Custom shop guitars WILL be made of more beautiful wood and have immaculate desing and construction for the people who like them... After all, standard US guitars aren't meant to be budget instruments, as "special" or second line guitars. As for tone, it will depend solely on the customer's taste... Otherwise they wouldn't be called "custom"


    I wouldn't go so far as to say that any custom shop guitar will sound or feel better than a standad American one, 'cause that's up to each player...All in all, regarding general quality, I'm with Kenny. You get what you pay for.
    Last edited by S. Cane; 01-26-2017 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Typos and my rusty English

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    Forum Member FrankJohnson's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyF View Post

    The CS guitars have something going on that has to be experienced to be appreciated... They play what you play, or more accurately, the expression or passion of the notes in my mind's ear, flow off this instrument without thinking about it... It gives me what I put into it, the way I expect, without exception...
    The Phrase "It gives me stuff" comes to mind......
    Kenny Belmont
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  28. #28
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I actually kind of like relics since I don't have to worry about that first scratch, ding, knock whatever. Plus the whole reason why I liked vintage stuff wasn't so much how it looked but how it felt. If a relic can get me that same feeling without the vintage (I mean real old vintage i.e. '50s fenders and gibsons) price tag then I'm happy.

    I had a 2004 custom shop Closet Classic '65 (it might have been called a Time Machine), I don't remember. I thought I had taken a picture of its certificate but I can't find any. It was R21917 just in case anybody out there knows where it is (seafoam green, rosewood fingerboard 6lb 5oz IIRC). Best playing and sounding strat i've ever owned. I can't remember what I had to have that caused me to sell it but I really regret it now.

    On another forum, somebody made a comment about what you've learned through out your years of buying and selling gear. One sentiment was "Don't sell something that's really great thinking you can find another one." That strat was a perfect example of that. I probably can find another equally good but lordy i'll probably going to have to pay through the nose. I got that guitar at a good price and I doubt I'll ever find a deal like that again.

  29. #29
    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    I actually kind of like relics since I don't have to worry about that first scratch, ding, knock whatever. Plus the whole reason why I liked vintage stuff wasn't so much how it looked but how it felt. If a relic can get me that same feeling without the vintage (I mean real old vintage i.e. '50s fenders and gibsons) price tag then I'm happy.
    Those are interesting points...hmm...

  30. #30
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I've got nothing against relics, from my understanding the CS started doing it for big artists so when they built them a guitar to take on tour. That way they could leave their prized pieces at home and take a new guitar out that looked the part. Seems that people now get really worked up over it.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Re: Relics....

    DanTheBluesMan nails a lot of it. For me, I like them & I never thought about why until I was "challenged" for my taste by some knucklehead on the Internet somewhere. I still am not sure why I like them except to say that I like them. It seems kind of dumb to try & psychoanalyze yourself or someone else as to why they prefer something so innocuous as a particular style electric guitar finish!
    One reason I think they appeal to me is that worn, old guitars have been in my hands since I started playing. The very first few electrics I ever owned were already "relic'd" when I got them. I could never afford a new Strat, lol. So I like the familiar feel & look they have. As to the cost, well there you go. I don't want to pay $2K for any guitar, whether it is shiny & new or aged by Tom Murphy Cunetto, lol

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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckocaster View Post
    I've got nothing against relics, from my understanding the CS started doing it for big artists so when they built them a guitar to take on tour. That way they could leave their prized pieces at home and take a new guitar out that looked the part. Seems that people now get really worked up over it.
    I have heard that the practice actually began when someone replaced a neck on an old guitar & rather than refinishing the entire piece to make the whole thing look new, the neck was cosmetically altered to match the old, beat up body.

  33. #33
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    I have heard that the practice actually began when someone replaced a neck on an old guitar & rather than refinishing the entire piece to make the whole thing look new, the neck was cosmetically altered to match the old, beat up body.

    I'm not sure, but I remember having read somewhere (a thread at the Les Paul Forum, IIRC) that it was keith Richards who started it all. He ordered a custom Gibson guitar and disliked the impeccable looks of it, so he returned it and asked the builders to "age" it so it would look like Micawber and his other road worn tools.

    I'll try to look it up and know for sure.

  34. #34
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogs View Post
    The very first few electrics I ever owned were already "relic'd" when I got them. I could never afford a new Strat, lol. So I like the familiar feel & look they have. As to the cost, well there you go. I don't want to pay $2K for any guitar, whether it is shiny & new or aged by Tom Murphy Cunetto, lol
    I did it all bassackwards. I kept buying nothing but new guitars and wondering why I didn't love how they felt. It wasn't until I played some genuine '50s beat up guitars when I found what I like. Except for the price. Then I found relics and they had that same feel and, well, yes still not cheap but a whole lot less expensive than the real thing.

    I'm a slow learner that way, I guess

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    Forum Member OldStrummer's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckocaster View Post
    I've got nothing against relics, from my understanding the CS started doing it for big artists so when they built them a guitar to take on tour. That way they could leave their prized pieces at home and take a new guitar out that looked the part. Seems that people now get really worked up over it.
    As the guy at the guitar shop I went to last night opined, guitar makers are in the business of selling guitars. So, if the buying public wants a guitar that looks like it's been run through the mill, that's what they're going to build.

    There's no accounting for taste.

  36. #36
    Forum Member redisburning's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Fender commissioned Vince Cunetto to relic some guitars for NAMM.

    They weren't meant to be anything real, but dealers were so impressed they insisted they be able to order some.

    Fender outsourced the work to Vince's shop for about 2 years. My guitar's parts were finished in his shop and final assembly was done by Fender CS.

    In 98 Fender brought it all in house.

    My guitar is very light and has a highly figured flame maple neck. Wood selection back then was intentional a the CS made far fewer guitars. The birdseye on the nocasters from that era is Detemple/D'Pergo levels and that is part of why market on them is about 5k.

  37. #37
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    I understand that the feel of relics is something special, but do the "light relics" have the feel without the body dings? Otherwise, I can't understand why Fender wouldn't sell that comfortable feel in a non-relic-d body.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  38. #38
    Forum Member DanTheBluesMan's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    good question. I'm given to understand that the new American Professional series are supposed to have the broken in feeling in the necks but I need to play some to ascertain that. You would think that they would have figured it out a long time ago and rolled those fingerboard edges and filed smooth as a baby's bottom those fret ends but noooooo. Also the back of the necks is critical to the feel and thick goppy finishes just don't cut it with me. Of course, it comes down to money and that extra work would have cut into the bottom line. They figured that probably 80-90 percent of their guitars just sit in their cases and gig bags unplayed anyway so why put all that extra work into every guitar they made.

  39. #39
    Forum Member redisburning's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    I understand that the feel of relics is something special, but do the "light relics" have the feel without the body dings? Otherwise, I can't understand why Fender wouldn't sell that comfortable feel in a non-relic-d body.
    my guitar has the body dings but the neck finish is fully intact. fingerboard is rolled but there is lacquer on the neck.

    every early one I've seen is like that. all of the wear is to the body/parts. I personally prefer it that way and the guitar I have on order is actually poly (Suhr). My Les Paul has the neck finish worn in and it does feel dead on to an old guitar.

    having played vintage strats, well personally yeah I just prefer there to be some finish on the neck.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    good question. I'm given to understand that the new American Professional series are supposed to have the broken in feeling in the necks but I need to play some to ascertain that. You would think that they would have figured it out a long time ago and rolled those fingerboard edges and filed smooth as a baby's bottom those fret ends but noooooo. Also the back of the necks is critical to the feel and thick goppy finishes just don't cut it with me. Of course, it comes down to money and that extra work would have cut into the bottom line. They figured that probably 80-90 percent of their guitars just sit in their cases and gig bags unplayed anyway so why put all that extra work into every guitar they made.
    The old ones came with sharper edges on the fingerboard when they weren't so old though.

    Thick finish is all about money. Tolerances/finishing work are almost always more expensive than materials.

  40. #40
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: Relics....

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheBluesMan View Post
    good question. I'm given to understand that the new American Professional series are supposed to have the broken in feeling in the necks but I need to play some to ascertain that. You would think that they would have figured it out a long time ago and rolled those fingerboard edges and filed smooth as a baby's bottom those fret ends but noooooo. Also the back of the necks is critical to the feel and thick goppy finishes just don't cut it with me. Of course, it comes down to money and that extra work would have cut into the bottom line. They figured that probably 80-90 percent of their guitars just sit in their cases and gig bags unplayed anyway so why put all that extra work into every guitar they made.
    Honestly, the necks on my 2008 and 2011 AmStds play so beautifully. I'm sure there are better necks out there, but these fit my hand perfectly.

    But I am really attracted to the natural finish Tele in the AmPros. Lefties rarely get that option.


    Thanks for the answers, Dan and redisburning
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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