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Thread: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

  1. #1
    Forum Member ajwain's Avatar
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    Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    I know this is a controversial subject, but I genuinely believe now that unplugged acoustic response doesn't appear to make a difference to amplified tone.

    I've been playing guitar for nearly 40 years in gigging bands, recording and in pit bands for amateur theatre and I've been fortunate enough to have owned and played a great number of Stratocasters in that time. I still own an embarrassing number of them, from early Japanese ones to Custom Shop modern and Time Machine models. My oldest one is an original '78 which I've had from new, and I've had the pleasure of playing extensively on an original '63 sunburst, which also has been owned from new by a friend of mine who used to be a pro in the sixties. I guess this background is to illustrate that I'm not totally ignorant on the subject.

    I've just acquired what I believe to be my finest Strat ever (in my opinion), which is a '57 Closet Classic with a lightweight ash body, a chunky handful of a neck and a beautifully subtle crazed lacquer checking on the two-tone sunburst body. I had the opportunity to choose from 20 or so Custom Shop guitars in a variety of levels of relic'ing, and I specifically asked the dealer to select what he thought was the lightest he had, then the best playing, the best sounding etc... each time, comparing them until I found what I felt was the nicest one amongst those I could afford (most of the Master Built's were out of my price range).

    The one I selected is lovely and light, I can honestly say that I've never played a Strat that's more 'alive'; when played acoustically it positively moves the air around it, and the vibrations ring through it from deep inside the body to all the way up the neck. I already have some nice Strats, but this one rings like no other. The feel of the instrument is addictive and I've not been able to put it down.

    Does it sound great? Yes. Does it sound significantly better than any of my other Strats? No. Do any of the ones I own stand out from the rest in terms of the plugged in tone, either clean or overdriven? No. Have I ever known a Strat (including the real vintage ones I've played) which sound head & shoulders better than the ones I'm used to? No.

    Do I believe that the Stratocasters I own are in some way above average in the way they sound? Absolutely not! I chose them because I believed them to be typically 'Stratty', if you know what I mean. I guess that begs the question as to why I need more than one. Well... do they sound different from each other? Yes, subtly. The ones with noiseless pickups sound the most 'different', but then I need to have those to play in orchestra pits with lots of sound and lighting gear in close proximity. They still don't sound like a different ball-park, though.

    So... why does my new, almost perfect Strat have an amazing response acoustically but not blow my mind when I plug in? Does it have poor pickups? Well, no. In fact the pickups are genuine Abby hand-wounds. Not the initialled '69 'supervised' ones, but properly signed and dated Custom Shop fitted ones. Am I playing it through a poor or 'tired' amplifier? Not really. I tried it at the dealer's through a H&K combo alongside the other beautiful guitars that I auditioned. At home, I've played it through a Mesa Boogie and a Fender Tweed Deluxe - sounds I'm used to hearing with my other Stratocasters.

    My only conclusion can be that sadly and with much regret, I have to concede that no matter how great a Strat should sound based on it's build quality and the quality of it's materials, and no matter how 'alive' and resonant it sounds and feels unplugged, at both practice and gig volumes it just sounds like a good Strat. Virtually identical to the 'bitsacaster' that I built from cheap parts I bought on eBay.

    I won't deny that it's a hugely enjoyable guitar to play, and I'm sure you do get a lot of very real value from paying for a premium instrument. The tuning stability is unquestionable, the tremolo performs perfectly and the satisfaction gleaned from playing it with the acoustic vibrations against your chest and your left hand is addictive. Do these things give it a perceptively better voice in my opinion? Not at volume, no. Does the 'Thinskin' nitro finish allow it to breathe more than the thick polyester finish on my '78? Unplugged it does; absolutely! Does it at 100 decibels? Nah!

    I have a pub gig with a 60's covers band next Saturday. If I'm comfortable enough with my new guitar I'll play that for most of the evening, then I'll know if 40 years of what I've hoped was true, is indeed true to my ears, or if it's absolute bullshit!

  2. #2
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    I think about this from time to time and here is my take on it.

    With regard to solid-body electrics, my experience is that a guitar body which resonates a little sounds better than one which doesn't. For this reason, I tend to favour light-bodied guitars over heavier ones because the lighter wood seems to have more resonant qualities. I think of a solid-body not as just a plank of wood with pickups, but as a resonant system which includes the body, neck, pickups and hardware. All of this has an effect on the vibration of the string so that the sound picked up by the magnets is not simply the vibration of the string, but the vibration of the string as modified by all of the other factors.

    I am not sure if this translates into the old idea that if a guitar sounds great acoustically, it will sound great amplified, but I think it points in that direction.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  3. #3
    Forum Member ajwain's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    Thanks for your input. I think we completely agree.
    Obviously, with acoustic guitars it's a different story... the wood, the resonance and response is everything.

    I think all musicians need to feel some feedback from their instrument. It's that interaction which allows a player to use expression and mood in their playing. For solid-body electric guitarists, the feedback is the way the instrument feels in their hands; the way it vibrates when you hit the strings hard, versus how it feels when you caress it. Equally if not more important though, is the way the guitar signal and amp interract - whether the amp cleans up as you play more softly and with less attack/volume. I don't believe that this is affected by the resonance of the wood. Look at Trussart steel guitars, for example. They sound great.

    I know what you mean by lightweight instruments being more likely to yield a better tone, but I believe that this is caused by a complex combination of factors. Lightweight wood is generally selected for high end instruments (not always, but in general terms). This means that it's a greater investment by the player, a better feel (again not exclusively, but statistically so) and these things make a player feel differently, and therefore contribute to the tone. Any improvement in tone though, in my opinion, is as a result of the fingers, not directly the instrument itself.

  4. #4
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    I think it helps, but how much so depends on the pickups. I'm a "whole enchilada" kinda guy, meaning I consider every part important. In much the same way as using all good ingredients to cook a fine meal, I think every guitar has its own "recipe". I won't bore you with old adages or unproven data. Suffice to say though, I think any instrument you play needs to feel and sound good.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

  5. #5
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    My pair of pennies:

    The amplifier is more of an instrument than the guitar is in so many cases. Both of which depend on the hands of the player.

    Case in point, toss someone like John Scofield into a local guitar store and have him play some rack equipment site unseen and he'll still sound like Sco:


    I've also seen Bill Frisell live at the local university, and he just tours with his guitar - playing on whatever amps are available - normally requesting anybody's DRRI if available. And he always sounds amazing.

    There's science, and there's mojo, I guess.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  6. #6
    Forum Member redisburning's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    agree with the premise of the topic, disagree that there aren't some strats which are just heads above all the rest.

    some guitars just have it IME. granted my experience is more limited than many around here.

    I dont buy into older = better or newer = better or expensive = better. To my ears there is a very distinct sound that represents good; a pulsing, warbling sound in amplified sustained notes. It's trivial to find a Les Paul that does it. It's a harder but not overly difficult to find a Tele that does it. But strats are a different story IME. Mid heavy amps like Tweeds and Marshalls played cleanish really accentuate these sounds as well, so they may just be mid-ish overtones.

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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckocaster View Post
    ... I'm a "whole enchilada" kinda guy, meaning I consider every part important. In much the same way as using all good ingredients to cook a fine meal, I think every guitar has its own "recipe". ...
    Spoken like someone who has done more than a few builds over the years.

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    I've had guitars that I thought were dogs but added a different neck at it did a 180.

    Same thing applies to pups, bodies, tuners, tailpieces and such.

    What I haven't been able to do is predict how a build will turn out with any consistency.

    Most of my success has been purely accidental...

  8. #8
    Forum Member ajwain's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    Thanks for your responses and opinions guys. I'm pleased that I'm not the only one who believes that handbuilt and expensive doesn't automatically mean better sounding.

    I played the gig on Saturday, and I'm pleased with my purchase. The tuning stability was true to form, and the body felt light and gratifying to play. I do think the bridge pickup might be a little less harsh and not quite 'at odds' with the other two pickups, but that might be my subconscious telling me that it ought to be(!).

    I'm going to ask for advice in The Pickup Joint as to what bridge pickup to load into a Strat to alleviate my frustrations of constantly having to tweak the tone every time I change pickups. Maybe I just want the impossible, or maybe it's just my playing that needs 'tweaking'.

  9. #9
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    Quote Originally Posted by DanD View Post
    Spoken like someone who has done more than a few builds over the years.

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    I've had guitars that I thought were dogs but added a different neck at it did a 180.

    Same thing applies to pups, bodies, tuners, tailpieces and such.

    What I haven't been able to do is predict how a build will turn out with any consistency.

    Most of my success has been purely accidental...
    Sometimes accidents are what we need most! As crazy as that sounds, it's true. Some people call it "thinking outside the box", or taking a different path. People are afraid to fail but if you never fail, then you never learn. I can't tell you how many times I've built or modded a guitar and I didn't like the results. When that happens you gotta step back and figure out something else to do.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

  10. #10
    Forum Member S. Cane's Avatar
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    Re: Great unplugged resonance does not translate into great amplified tone

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    I think about this from time to time and here is my take on it.

    With regard to solid-body electrics, my experience is that a guitar body which resonates a little sounds better than one which doesn't. For this reason, I tend to favour light-bodied guitars over heavier ones because the lighter wood seems to have more resonant qualities. I think of a solid-body not as just a plank of wood with pickups, but as a resonant system which includes the body, neck, pickups and hardware. All of this has an effect on the vibration of the string so that the sound picked up by the magnets is not simply the vibration of the string, but the vibration of the string as modified by all of the other factors.

    I am not sure if this translates into the old idea that if a guitar sounds great acoustically, it will sound great amplified, but I think it points in that direction.

    Exactly.

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