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Thread: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

  1. #1
    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    In the post below, Phantomman suggested running my Champ into a 2x12 cabinet. This is not the first time I've heard this and seems like a great idea. It's something I'd like to pursue at some point.

    I have some nice 3/4" birch plywood I could use to build a cabinet. I've already built a small cab for another amp and it turned out great.

    But, what are the suggestions here for a good speaker for good Fender sound?

    Jensen 12" speakers come to mind. Getting two 8 ohm speakers and wiring in parallel to present a 4 ohm load to my amp is a very simple affair.

    Any other thoughts?


    http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...5&postcount=27

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    Forum Member Old Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    You put two guitar players in a room and ask them what speakers they like and after three hours you have heard a dozen different makes and types discussed. Add a third guy and there's gonna be a fist fight looming in the future if the "discussion" goes further. You're gonna get LOTS of different answers here.....

    I personally prefer the Jensens today as I did long ago. Affordable, durable, and have wonderful tone and timber. But then what the hell do I know? I'm just an old coot that lives in the woods with dial up internet and is so out of touch with the world that I still think Elvis is alive living in a trailer park in a suburb of Fort Worth.
    I forgot what I was going to say...

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    You know, I think that Eminence makes a fine speaker, a GREAT speaker. The good news about them is that you can usually find them for pittance because everyone wants to "upgrade" to Jensens or whatever. The Fender "Special Design" ones are everywhere.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ranger View Post
    You put two guitar players in a room and ask them what speakers they like and after three hours you have heard a dozen different makes and types discussed. Add a third guy and there's gonna be a fist fight looming in the future if the "discussion" goes further. You're gonna get LOTS of different answers here.....

    I personally prefer the Jensens today as I did long ago. Affordable, durable, and have wonderful tone and timber. But then what the hell do I know? I'm just an old coot that lives in the woods with dial up internet and is so out of touch with the world that I still think Elvis is alive living in a trailer park in a suburb of Fort Worth.
    Ranger just summed it up for me. But I like JBL's too. And Rog prefers vintage speakers, not those modern repros. Now if we can get someone to hold our coats...

    Even though I have played for a very long time, I never paid all that much attention to particular speakers. I played mostly Fender and Marshall and did not go through a whole lot of different amps in my career, maybe a dozen in total, most made before 1970.

    But more recently, I have discovered what everyone else already knew, i.e., that you can make a so-so amp really come to life with the right speaker. Now I have a pair of Webers (one ceramic, one alnico, both vintage style) in my 2x10 Super Reverb. I have a Weber Neomag 10" in my Princeton Reverb. The NeoMags were made to replace JBL D120's (I can sense Rog's blood pressure rising) and I love it. Super clean, sparkly. And, I just bought a D120F that is going into a 1969 Deluxe Reverb I just bought yesterday (see new thread).

    I think Rog is going to be your expert on what to do with that 2x12 Champ. That sounds weird as I type it. A 2x12 Champ. Who knew? But I hear that it sounds awesome.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  5. #5
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ranger View Post
    You put two guitar players in a room and ask them what speakers they like and after three hours you have heard a dozen different makes and types discussed. Add a third guy and there's gonna be a fist fight looming in the future if the "discussion" goes further. You're gonna get LOTS of different answers here.....
    LMFAO!!!

    (and a hearty +1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ranger View Post
    I personally prefer the Jensens today as I did long ago. Affordable, durable, and have wonderful tone and timber. But then what the hell do I know? I'm just an old coot that lives in the woods with dial up internet and is so out of touch with the world that I still think Elvis is alive living in a trailer park in a suburb of Fort Worth.
    Actually, the imported Jensini re-issues bear little sonic relationship to the originals made in Chicago nor will they ever, regardless of allotted break-in time. The only speaker that sounds like a C12Q is an old C12Q. That said, Weber offers several models that will approximate that tone. As well, there are many other contemporary speakers worthy of consideration from WGS, Kendrick, Reverend, and Eminence that will deliver the prototypical Fender vibe.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    At some point old age is going to cause a problem when the lust for old tone (AlNiCo) & the need to shed some weight (Neodymium) collides.

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    At some point old age is going to cause a problem when the lust for old tone (AlNiCo) & the need to shed some weight (Neodymium) collides.
    An inescapable fact of life.

    However, smaller Fender packages with alnico JBL's such as the Deluxe Reverb remain both manageable and toneful.



    These two examples ('78 "Spankmaster" conversion, stock '68 silverface) tip the scales at 51 lbs and 54 lbs respectively. Not too prohibitive in terms of weight.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Well of course if you're gonna go big you might as well make it count, & JBLs are worth it.
    One of my goals is to mount a couple of D-110s in my Bandmaster combo

  9. #9
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    To be brutally honest, I once installed a brand-new pair of JBL ten's in a blackface Vibrolux Reverb I received in a trade.

    It was the most colossal mistake I ever made.



    I'd always been a fan of the D-series 12's and 15's and had figured that the 10's would make that amp sing. It had come to me with an original pair of Jensens but long-term storage in a basement had provided sustenance for indigenous rats who'd eaten the speaker cones away right down to the baskets.

    The replacement JBL's sounded like the proverbial smoke detector being tortured with an ice pick -- shrill, brash, metallic, totally void of musical content. With a Les Paul and the amp's treble tone control set to "1" it was somewhat usable but with a Strat it was impossible to achieve any measure of utility.

    I've never hankered for a D110F since.

    YMMV
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    LMFAO!!!

    (and a hearty +1)



    Actually, the imported Jensini re-issues bear little sonic relationship to the originals made in Chicago nor will they ever, regardless of allotted break-in time. The only speaker that sounds like a C12Q is an old C12Q. That said, Weber offers several models that will approximate that tone. As well, there are many other contemporary speakers worthy of consideration from WGS, Kendrick, Reverend, and Eminence that will deliver the prototypical Fender vibe.
    What is a Weber you would suggest? The amp has Weber alnico in it, now. I bought the amp off eBay and the speaker was damaged. zi replaced it with Weber 8". It sounds good, but I intentionally bought a speaker with a voice coil 1/4" larger than stock. It is a little dark. But, I compensate by running the treble high and rolling the bass back on the amp.

    The sonic territory I'm looking for is not just a "good" sound, but a decidedly "Fender" sound. I realize even saying that is very open-ended. But, that's what I'm shooting for.

  11. #11
    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    LMFAO!!!

    (and a hearty +1)



    Actually, the imported Jensini re-issues bear little sonic relationship to the originals made in Chicago nor will they ever, regardless of allotted break-in time. The only speaker that sounds like a C12Q is an old C12Q. That said, Weber offers several models that will approximate that tone. As well, there are many other contemporary speakers worthy of consideration from WGS, Kendrick, Reverend, and Eminence that will deliver the prototypical Fender vibe.
    What is a Weber you would suggest? The amp has Weber alnico in it, now. I bought the amp off eBay and the speaker was damaged. zi replaced it with Weber 8". It sounds good, but I intentionally bought a speaker with a voice coil 1/4" larger than stock. It is a little dark. But, I compensate by running the treble high and rolling the bass back on the amp.

    The sonic territory I'm looking for is not just a "good" sound, but a decidedly "Fender" sound. I realize even saying that is very open-ended. But, that's what I'm shooting for.

  12. #12
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    As eight-inchers go, the Weber is pretty much it. If that's not putting a smile on your face I really don't know what would. I'm certain an original Oxford 8-EV alnico wouldn't do it.

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member smitty_p's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    As eight-inchers go, the Weber is pretty much it. If that's not putting a smile on your face I really don't know what would. I'm certain an original Oxford 8-EV alnico wouldn't do it.


    No, don't get me wrong. I do like it. But in terms of building a 2x12 cabinet, if Weber is a good suggestion, I'm cool with that.

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Conversely, you could find a set of vintage Jensens and have them re-furbished. I have a matched pair of Fender-marked C12NA's from 1966 just waiting for the right project to come along (Pro Reverb, Bandmaster, Bassman, etc).
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    These work really well with Tweeds in a 2x10 flavor:

    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  16. #16
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    Well of course if you're gonna go big you might as well make it count, & JBLs are worth it.
    One of my goals is to mount a couple of D-110s in my Bandmaster combo
    I know this is heresy to some, but have you considered Weber NeoMags? I have a NeoMag 10 in my Princeton Reverb and it is pretttty nice. And light? Wow.

    Now that I have a D120F in my DR, I can do some comparisons. Yes, I know it is a bit of apple to oranges, but in terms of a quality of sound, the NeoMag is way better than a lot of purists might think. It really has that sparkle you get from a JBL, just in slightly less quantity. It is really is worth checking out.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    I'd LOVE to try some Neomags. All the neodymium speakers I've heard have had that AlNiCo "snap & sheen" to them.

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations


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    Forum Member T2Strat's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    As eight-inchers go, the Weber is pretty much it. If that's not putting a smile on your face I really don't know what would. I'm certain an original Oxford 8-EV alnico wouldn't do it.

    The Kendrick Blackframe 8 is a fine alternative to the Weber...a bit more pricey, but sweet tone and can take a good beating. I've had one in my drip edge champ for going on 15 years and love the tone!

    T2

  20. #20
    Formerly Tele-Tubby TT100's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by smitty_p View Post
    The sonic territory I'm looking for is not just a "good" sound, but a decidedly "Fender" sound. I realize even saying that is very open-ended. But, that's what I'm shooting for.
    To me you're talking vintage Jensen. A pair of 60's era C12Qs or C12Ns. Fwiw, I come close enough with a pair of Webers in my Pro Reverb. A 12F150 and a 12F150T. The T model uses a different model cone and is supposedly brighter. Maybe I used to be able to tell, but can't really anymore.

    The Weber 12F125 is their C12Q cross and they offer a few choices in wattage, doping, impedance, etc.

    As an experiment I put a pair of '66 or so C12Qs in the Pro Reverb for a couple of days and it was noticeably clearer and sweeter sounding but I feared for the old Jensens in that amp so they're back in a box.

    TT
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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by TT100 View Post
    As an experiment I put a pair of '66 or so C12Qs in the Pro Reverb for a couple of days and it was noticeably clearer and sweeter sounding but I feared for the old Jensens in that amp so they're back in a box.
    A wise decision. The C12Q of 1966 was only rated for 25 watts power-handling capability -- not much of a safety margin there should one of them fail at high volume levels (you'd likely lose both in that scenario). The few Pro Reverbs I've examined that had Jensens as OEM used the C12NA, a 40-watt speaker.

    Another vintage Jensen option that's frequently overlooked is the EM1200 "Vibranto" speaker. These are enhanced C12N's allegedly rated for 75 watts apiece. Visually they're characterized by their gray wrinkle-finish basket, a large bell cover over the magnet structure, and spring-loaded wire terminals.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member stratcat55's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    I'm a big Weber fan. In my 5e3 clone I have a Weber 12A125A Alnico light dope, seriously nice speaker.
    I've run my 74 Champ through it and I really like it. I changed out that RCA Phono jack for a Switchcraft 1/4" jack. I also use a Weber Z-Matcher to match the impedance. I tried that Champ through my Celestion Greenback that's in my Marshall 18 watt clone and it sounded pretty cool too, but not really Fender like. I also have two 112 Egnater cabs loaded with Celestion Elite 80's. That's what I use a lot, but I'm not worried too much about a Fender sound as much as just being able to crank that little Champ. It sounds huge through any 12" speaker.

  23. #23
    Formerly Tele-Tubby TT100's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    A wise decision. The C12Q of 1966 was only rated for 25 watts power-handling capability -- not much of a safety margin there should one of them fail at high volume levels (you'd likely lose both in that scenario). The few Pro Reverbs I've examined that had Jensens as OEM used the C12NA, a 40-watt speaker.

    Another vintage Jensen option that's frequently overlooked is the EM1200 "Vibranto" speaker. These are enhanced C12N's allegedly rated for 75 watts apiece. Visually they're characterized by their gray wrinkle-finish basket, a large bell cover over the magnet structure, and spring-loaded wire terminals.
    It's been a while since I've seen a Vibranto model Jensen for sale. Believe I read somewhere that they were warranty replacements from Fender back then. ??


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  24. #24
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Indeed they were. There are several Jensen Vibranto's for sale on Ebay at the moment.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    I've just had a 2 x 12 cab made for my Showman amp head. After much mucking about and research I've loaded it with Kendrick Blackframes. So far so good as they're still breaking in but the initial tone is very tight and useable straight from the box.

  26. #26

    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    I love the JBL D120F(K120) in my 1972 Twin Reverb. I had them reconed as close to K120 as possible with nos JBL aluminum dust caps. They are clean with a sharp attack. It all depends on what you like. I'v known guys with Jensens in Fenders that sounded great. I am going to build a Dual Showman clone cabinet with 2-15" JBL D130F's. I gotta have them reconed to as close to K130 as possible. I have a few more of those nos aluminum JBL dust caps. It will be used as an extension cabinet on my Twin. Steve Kudlow of Anvil used of those setups. check out the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loFdtPAlzO0

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    Re: 2x12 Speaker Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Conversely, you could find a set of vintage Jensens and have them re-furbished. I have a matched pair of Fender-marked C12NA's from 1966 just waiting for the right project to come along (Pro Reverb, Bandmaster, Bassman, etc).
    I have a 1967 Pro Reverb with 2 Jensens in it that are gold label and they say C12NAS -220618 C8258-2 C1258-2 S20011 I don't know what all that means but I just had them reconed at Vin-Tone can you tell me are these original and what wattage are they and what is the difference from a C12N ? Thank you for your time Mezza Mort !!!

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