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Thread: THE Dylan Strat Found?

  1. #41
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Watched PBS History Detectives last night but missed almost the entire Dylan guitar part because of storms in the area. What I did see was pretty convincing. I also got a kick out of the Frank Zappa artwork.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  2. #42
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    It was cool to see the guitar right there in Andy's shop. I was there on Saturday picking up a new Gretsch knob to replace one on my son's baritone guitar and ordering strings for it (they're never in stock anywhere) and we talked at length about the guitar. I never doubted Andy's acumen in this area, and seeing it on TV, I could def. see the similarities in the wood grain. I think he's right.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  3. #43
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by surfreak View Post
    Sometimes I think there's something wrong with me, for my deep dislike of Bob Dylan's music.

    That and Robert Plant. Love the band, hate his voice.
    Lots of people don't "get" him. My wife can't stand him - but my son and I are rabid fans. I love that his voice is homely. And I love his words. Love his harmonica playing, and the endless stylistic shifts. But mostly just his songwriting. But LOTs of people can't stand him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Interestingly, I'm so old I think of Clapton as a Gibson guy. He wasn't a Strat guy until later in his career. He was Slowhand before he went Strat. The Strat was well established in rock long before EC or Dylan. In Dylan's case it seems to me it wasn't that he used a Strat that mattered, it was he went electric. He could have done that with a Dano with the same results.

    My opinion, of course.
    Clapner has pretty much played tons of Gibsons and Fenders. 335/LP/Firebird/SG/Tele/Strat. I don't even think his current Strat sounds very 'stratty' - with that huge MRB it sounds too fat.

    And I agree with Chuck - Dano, Strat, Airline Guitar, Hofner, Gretsch, Gibson, Rickenbacker - doesn't matter what it was...the electricity and the full band were an affront to the staid Folkies of the time...they'd become so entrenched in the acoustic troubador tradition that they were not the counterculture anymore, but the establishment...and Zimmy pretty much shat all over that.

    Artists gotta grow, or they grow stagnant.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  4. #44
    Forum Member bluespckr's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Plant (and Roger Daltry and others) are evidence that it often isn't the individual, but the combination of people in a band that works. On their own, they aren't so much. But their voices fit their bands and their music. I never thought the Beatles were they great individually -- I was never impressed with George's guitar playing back then -- but they created magic when playing together.

    Paul

  5. #45
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post

    Clapner has pretty much played tons of Gibsons and Fenders. 335/LP/Firebird/SG/Tele/Strat. I don't even think his current Strat sounds very 'stratty' - with that huge MRB it sounds too fat.
    Wasn't the famous Crossroads solo played on a 335? I have always considered a 335 to be a LP with storage space.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  6. #46
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erock_Germany View Post
    Yes......I was being blinded by the Fender Bug again. This is indeed what it is all about.

    I do remember reading though that once Holly was twanging that Strat, sales took a huge jump towards the masses. Up until then it was definitely a luxury item in the pro music scene...
    I'm not at all suggesting that his playing a strat didn't impact the market for strats and influence a lot of people.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    I'm not at all suggesting that his playing a strat didn't impact the market for strats and influence a lot of people.
    I wouldn't consider the Strat an instrument people didn't buy because it was a "luxury item." Before Buddy, most rockers played Gibson or Gretsch - and usually the most expensive one they could afford. Strats were played by a handful of Western Swing artists and Pee Wee Crayton.

    The Newport Strat is iconic, not because it made guitarists want to buy Strats - it could could have been any electric guitar. It is iconic because it made a huge impression on the audience - you know the other 99% of people we play for.
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  8. #48
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    Wasn't the famous Crossroads solo played on a 335? I have always considered a 335 to be a LP with storage space.
    I always thought of a 335 as being a LP with some extra 'airiness' and 'cut' to it.

    If I had to choose one over the other, I'd pick the 335. Why? Because, as a lifelong Fender/Rickenbacker/Gretsch player, I'm used to more sizzle on the top end. There's a reason why I always end up selling my Les Pauls (eventually). But now we're way OT...

    Getting back to Strats - Now that my bog-standard MIM is back in tip-top setup, I'm grabbing it more and more, because even though I love my Jazzmaster and Tele, there is just something about a Strat.

    And the Dylan Strat has made me kind of interested in getting a SB with the RW neck. I've always admired Maple necked Strats but that RW one is pretty.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  9. #49
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I can't believe we've all been so lame as to not post a SINGE image of said guitar, artist, or event. So here's a huge one:

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?


  11. #51
    Forum Member 1Duffy1's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I talked with Andy on Saturday.


    Notice that I didn't say "stole" it.

    And if it is the real thing, I think the most important issue is its historical significance...

    Yeah well, I think if it is the real thing that the most important thing to do is return it to who it belonged to before it was "misappropriated" - is that the right word?

    The honest thing to do would have been to return it right away in the first place.

    Did the guy steal it? What do you call it when you "keep" something that belongs to someone else?

    Simple answer. Give it back to Dylan. Evidently there is probable cause to believe that it's his, based upon so called "professional" opinion and the word of the dude that took it home in the first place.
    "Walk along the river, sweet lulla by, it just keeps on flowing,
    It don't worry 'bout where it's going, no, no..."
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Maybe you didn't read the story. Apparently there were attempts made to return it.

  13. #53
    Forum Member 1Duffy1's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    Maybe you didn't read the story. Apparently there were attempts made to return it.
    Rumor has it, vaguely, that "so called" attempts were made to return it to "The Company", supposedly. They should have "just returned it", no questions asked. They knew who it belonged to and it would have been a simple matter to return it. It would have been very easy to figure out exactly how to get it back to his client.

    This is a typical deal. Transportation services regularly return property, luggage, etc., to there clients when the stuff is inadvertently left in the vehicle, plane, etc. Check with any airport. They will even drive the stuff to your door, at the place of your convenience.

    From the article:
    Quote,
    "In fact, Dylan says that's not what happened. "Bob has possession of the electric guitar he played at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965," his attorney, Orin Snyder, said in a statement. "He did own several other Stratocaster guitars that were stolen from him around that time, as were some handwritten lyrics."
    Unquote.

    Dylan says they were "stolen". First person narrative, primary source.

    Without question, the guitars and materials should be returned without further delay, in earnest.

    How would you like it if someone was grandstanding it all over the world wide news that they had your "serious" guitar, instead of trying to give it back to you?

    Possession of stolen property is a crime in the USA. The guitar should be seized by the police, as with any other stolen property, and the owner should be allowed to retrieve his property.

    The evidence speaks for itself. The only right and legal thing to do is return the guitar, immediately.

    When Dylan dies maybe something like this would become a "national treasure", I don't know. In the meantime it is evident who the stuff belongs to and who is playing the foolish game.

    It is pitiful to think that anyone could think of doing anything else besides returning the stuff to the rightful owner. There's some sorry people out there.
    "Walk along the river, sweet lulla by, it just keeps on flowing,
    It don't worry 'bout where it's going, no, no..."
    Allman Brothers Band

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Really?

  15. #55
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I think the real question is "stolen" vs. "abandoned."
    Several guitars in different colors
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    Forum Member 1Duffy1's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n View Post
    I think the real question is "stolen" vs. "abandoned."
    Not much of a question if you ask me.

    When was the last time you abandoned a Fender strat, much less three strats?

    The only right thing to do is to return the property to its rightful owner.

    Also - what is a reputable appraisor or curator ethically required to do when they are presented with an article that they have every reason to believe is stolen or clearly belongs to someone other than the one seeking the monetary value of the item?

    Easy answer.

    I can't believe you "guitar players" sympathize with the people that are holding Dylans property from him.
    "Walk along the river, sweet lulla by, it just keeps on flowing,
    It don't worry 'bout where it's going, no, no..."
    Allman Brothers Band

  17. #57
    Forum Member bluespckr's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    It certainly wasn't "gifted" to the pilot by Dylan. He probably wrote it off as stolen and moved on, but technically the guitar is still his. It's up to Dylan to sign off on it and let the current people keep it. Barring that, it needs to go back to him. Having said that, I did see where some attempts have been made to return it, so who knows where the story is at now.

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Settle down. No reason for such indignation over a subject that doesn't even involve you.

  19. #59
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    Settle down. No reason for such indignation over a subject that doesn't even involve you.
    Yep.

    I think it'd be pretty cool to check it out at Andy's shop. On the other hand I have no idea what I was personally doing forty five years ago, and I suspect not may of you do either.

    Why should you or I have some sort of special insight as to what what one of the most successful musicians (and notorious reefer smokers ) of the time was doing, or not doing with a handful of the many tools of his trade back then.
    Several guitars in different colors
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I'm just now in the middle of a couple books on Dylan, from '56 to '66. It is unreral the amount of stuff he did: The music he recorded & shows he performed. Along w/that, everyione in the world wanted a piece of him or just to bend his ear for a minute. It's not hard for me to imagine that it would be diffucult to get ahold of him or his organization to give him some guitars that were as common as flies in that day & age.
    Last edited by Cogs; 05-31-2013 at 01:14 AM.

  21. #61
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n View Post
    Yep.

    I think it'd be pretty cool to check it out at Andy's shop. On the other hand I have no idea what I was personally doing forty five years ago, and I suspect not may of you do either.

    Why should you or I have some sort of special insight as to what what one of the most successful musicians (and notorious reefer smokers ) of the time was doing, or not doing with a handful of the many tools of his trade back then.
    Yeah, and with the circus that was Dylan's personal and professional life, I'm surprised that more of these things happen.

    Kap'n, any time you want to come on down, we'll paint the town red. I live about 4 miles away from Fairport where Andy's store is...



    As for those getting all in a flutter about it - were these instruments stolen, misappropriated, or otherwise taken from you?

    All we have is one woman's 2nd-hand account from her father, who is now deceased, that he tried to contact the Dylan organization to return the instruments that were left behind. Interestingly, the story doesn't mention what the other two guitars were - maybe they were owned by the Hawks (the Band, in other word) but really, that woman inherited her father's estate and did not herself "steal, misappropriate, abscond with, or otherwise take something that wasn't hers.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  22. #62
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    I'm just now in the middle of a couple books on Dylan, from '56 to '66. It is unreral the amount of stuff he did: The music he recorded & shows he performed. Along w/that, everyione in the world wanted a piece of him or just to bend his ear for a minute. It's not hard for me to imagine that it would be diffucult to get ahold of him or his organization to give him some guitars that were as common as flies in that day & age.
    Plus, his state of mind at the time might not have been such that he was gonna keep track of the Strat. Perhaps his road mgr should have.
    Funny, not sure if it was the same day, but at some point he borrowed a harmonica, right on stage, (I want to say it was an "A") from someone for one song in his solo acoustic set.
    So there's a truly essential piece of Dylan gear that he managed to lose track of, or simply not have.

    Definitely a significant Strat.
    As vital as words were/are to his work, his whole sound "going electric" at that point was a major turning point. The lyrics changed with voltage too (among other enhancements ).
    It's like he got his hands on a new personal dialect.
    That, along w/his move away from protest songs is was what pissed those folkies off.
    Last edited by Cogs; 05-31-2013 at 01:11 AM.
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    You know, I was listening to No Direction Home (Bootleg Series vol. 7) & was struck by how much it sounds like Let It Be & other Beatle sessions from the late '60s. Very influential, I'd say
    lol

  24. #64
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    There's a film archivist, here in CT, who's done a several things at the Avon Theatre in Stamford. This will be the first on I've gone to.

    http://www.avontheatre.org/special_events.html#aug1

    He's supposed to lots of rarely (if ever) seen concert footage.

    Sadly, I don't think these will be available on DVD, AFAIK.

    Since being out of work, and now working the most disorienting and draining shift I've ever done, I haven't seen any music in a long time.
    I'm off Thursday, so I'm going.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    An interesting quote from Bob out of the Rolling Stone interview in issue 1166:
    "These are the same people [critics] that tried to pin the name Judas on me. Judas, the most hated name in human history! If you think you've been called a bad name, try to work your way out from under that. Yeah, & for what? For playing an electric guitar? As if that is in some kind of way equitable to betraying our Lord & delivering him up to be crucified. All those evil motherf*ckers can rot in hell!"
    Last edited by Cogs; 12-11-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  26. #66
    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    Lots of people don't "get" him. My wife can't stand him - but my son and I are rabid fans. I love that his voice is homely. And I love his words. Love his harmonica playing, and the endless stylistic shifts. But mostly just his songwriting. But LOTs of people can't stand him.


    .....
    Yeah, I have this on again, off again thing with him. The music is good. The voice, well different. But what always gets me back is the words. The man is poetic in a deep sense. Just moves me.

    Just like Jackson Browne's lyrics...must have been the German air early in his life that made Jackson so creative...

    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?


  28. #68
    Forum Member JM3's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Saw the show and yes it looks like the exact guitar. But I loved watching zappa play the burnt Hendrix start live

  29. #69
    Forum Member JM3's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Fwiw I played mary Ford's les Paul

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    Yeah, and with the circus that was

    All we have is one woman's 2nd-hand account from her father, who is now deceased, that he tried to contact the Dylan organization to return the instruments that were left behind. Interestingly, the story doesn't mention what the other two guitars were - maybe they were owned by the Hawks (the Band, in other word) but really, that woman inherited her father's estate and did not herself "steal, misappropriate, abscond with, or otherwise take something that wasn't hers.


    I can't believe how so many guitar owners can be so unsupportive of Dylan in regard to his guitars.

    The guitars showed up in the possession of a woman who had them authenticated by an appraiser that didn't even take any action regarding his professional responsibility to report his "probable suspicion" that a stolen guitar of some value had been presented to him for valuation. At that point it was obviously identified as having a very high probability of being Dylan's guitar.

    Then the whole discussion that the pilot couldn't get a hold of Dylan's "people" - when all he would have had to do is ship the guitars to Capitol Records with a letter describing how Dylan had left them in his plane. That is the responsibility of air transportation companies; to re-unite the left behind or unaccounted for property of their passengers, with their rightful owners. It happens every day and they pay to have the luggage, etc., delivered straight to your door - at their expense. So that is a weak argument that he tried to contact Dylan - yeah right, try contacting Dylan. Capitol Records could contact him at a moments notice.

    And virtually everyone knows that "possession of stolen property" is a crime, even if you don't know the property is stolen. You have to explain yourself out of it. But since the pilot "kept" the guitars, it is kind of like "finders keepers, losers weepers", which is childish and is an argument that will not stand up in court. If you know it is someone else's property you have an obligation to return it to the owner. This doesn't mean that you make a couple futile phone calls and then just decide to keep the stuff.

    The pilot wasn't stupid. He knew there were ways of returning that gear, but didn't choose to engage in any of those alternatives. He decided to just keep it instead.

    I can't believe that so many guitar owners are defensive of this woman, even after Dylan has stated that they are his guitars and that he wants them back.

    I'm finished discussing this matter.

    I'm out of this conversation.
    "Walk along the river, sweet lulla by, it just keeps on flowing,
    It don't worry 'bout where it's going, no, no..."
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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Really, you're gonna resurrect an old thread like this? This shit should be settled in court, not on some guitar forum. I don't think anyone else involved in this thread is sticking up for the lady. Let the ones actually involved in the dispute work it out.

    Chill out man.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    oh please

  33. #73
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    And I reiterate...

    As for those getting all in a flutter about it - were these instruments stolen, misappropriated, or otherwise taken from you?


    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  34. #74
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    ...and the beef spills into the parking lot...
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  35. #75
    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Dylan should have never touched that Strat! I don't really believe that; I'm just pretending to be an audience member of that famous 1st electric show.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  36. #76
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    Dylan should have never touched that Strat! I don't really believe that; I'm just pretending to be an audience member of that famous 1st electric show.
    I'm with Willie. It shoulda been a TELE!
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  37. #77
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I LOVE the pic of Dylan playing a Jazz bass from around this time. He's in the studio and standing in front of what I think is a Showman or something.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

  38. #78
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    I'm with Willie. It shoulda been a TELE!
    I'd like to see Bob playing a BC Rich Warlock packed with Super Distortion pups, and singing "Ballad of a Thin Man."
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

  39. #79
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I wouldn't put that past him., he might just do it.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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