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Thread: THE Dylan Strat Found?

  1. #1
    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    THE Dylan Strat Found?

    The one he played at the Neport Festival in 1965...that was lost...

    I think this is possibly THE most significant historic Strat.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/12/sh...-rs/index.html
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  2. #2
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I know Andy, and I doubt he's wrong. He's one of the foremost specialists around, having examined the Beatles and Stones complete collections (Beatles Gear is one of the best of its kind I've ever read, and the Rolling Stones Gear book is coming out this late autumn), and his Paul Bigsby book was meticulously researched. Plus, he's not likely to step that far out on a limb unless he was sure...as he says, his credibility is on the line.

    He's liable to know better than Dylan - to Dylan, that strat was probably just another guitar, y'know?? Kind of like Jimi, who ordered 1/2 dozen strats at a time...

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    Forum Member Direstraits's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    And you don't think Mr Bob's management would be talking it down in order to lower the potential value if they decide to try & buy it back ?? With the accompanying provenance it seems likely it is one of Dylan's guitars from that period and will therefore have value, but it may not be the actual one played at the Newport festival. If a batch of guitars were provided at the same time it's also possible that they would be from the same batch of wood & have similar markings.

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Direstraits View Post
    And you don't think Mr Bob's management would be talking it down in order to lower the potential value if they decide to try & buy it back ?? With the accompanying provenance it seems likely it is one of Dylan's guitars from that period and will therefore have value, but it may not be the actual one played at the Newport festival. If a batch of guitars were provided at the same time it's also possible that they would be from the same batch of wood & have similar markings.
    +1

    There do seem to be some dissenting opinions as to the provenance that this is the Dylan Strat.

    Time and more research will tell......
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    And I give a shiznit because?
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I just read about that festival. Quite the dust up! That is a cool find.

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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    And I give a shiznit because?
    Because now Bobby can get his signature electric tone again...
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    And I give a shiznit because?
    It is a cool story? It is some part of music history?

    I am no vintage collector or a person that thinks that this guitar is something that special. It was just the thought of him standing on stage and showing all the folk music folk back then....look man...it's electric...

    Just thought it was a better story than all ther other death and destruction I was reading on CNN....
    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    It is a cool story.

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    It belongs in a museum...

    But you don't know where it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

    (ooh, the layers of meaning...ooh....)
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    Forum Member bluespckr's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Museum? Nah. Watch it wind up on a wall at some Hard Rock Cafe.

    Paul

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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erock_Germany View Post
    It is a cool story? It is some part of music history?

    I am no vintage collector or a person that thinks that this guitar is something that special. It was just the thought of him standing on stage and showing all the folk music folk back then....look man...it's electric...

    Just thought it was a better story than all ther other death and destruction I was reading on CNN....
    You're right on man, I was just being a
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I talked with Andy on Saturday.

    Basically, Dylan's people are NOT disavowing that the guitar is his - but they are indeed moving to ensure that it cannot be sold at auction by the people who have it.

    Notice that I didn't say "stole" it.

    Andy's interest in the guitar was simply to compare the wood grain to the pictures of the Newport Strat, and he is convinced that the guitar is one and the same. But he won't venture into the "who owns the guitar" or "who's not telling the truth" discussions in public. He's just the appraiser, really. What they choose to do with the information is another thing.

    And if it is the real thing, I think the most important issue is its historical significance...

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Yeah, never knew who Andy was but did some research on him and that is quite cool.

    Next time I am in the Upstate New York region, I will definitely stop by his shop and have a gander....
    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Compared to Buddy Holly's Strat, it's musically insignificant.

    If it wasn't for that one, there would be no Hendrix Strat, or Dylan Strat...
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Compared to Buddy Holly's Strat, it's musically insignificant.

    If it wasn't for that one, there would be no Hendrix Strat, or Dylan Strat...
    Yep, I'll buy that. The BH Strat is the most significant one as far as history goes and certainly dwarfs the Dylan one in this respect.
    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Still a cool guitar, & significant in that the concert was a turning point in Rock & Roll history.

  18. #18
    Gravity Jim
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    So let me see if I've got this right:

    1. There can only be one truly significant object in any category.

    2. Buddy Holly was a greater influence on Hendrix and the Beatles than Dylan was.

    3. No one should ever post anything that OA doesn't care about.

  19. #19
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Them's the rules, Jim!
    Last edited by Don; 07-17-2012 at 06:21 AM.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by silent j. View Post
    So let me see if I've got this right:

    1. There can only be one truly significant object in any category.

    2. Buddy Holly was a greater influence on Hendrix and the Beatles than Dylan was.

    3. No one should ever post anything that OA doesn't care about.

    1. Na, I think there can be many. Should we start a post to list the most historically relevant Stratocasters in no particular order?

    2. Well, Hendrix covered both the Beatles and Dylan.

    On the Beatles aspect, Day Tripper on the BBC Sessions, and I think I heard the song Tomorrow Never Knows by Hendrix that is a Beatles song...(not sure, I am more an Elvis man) and I have a weird memory of him doing Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band but that may just be a flashback from the late 70s....)

    The Dylan covers are of course more known with All Along the Watchtower and Like a Rolling Stone...possibly more?

    3. No comment
    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Gravity Jim has a point. This thread should have been vetted by OA before posting
    & btw
    TEMPEST:
    The new album by Bob Dylan
    Ten New Songs
    Coming September 11

  22. #22
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Compared to Buddy Holly's Strat, it's musically insignificant.

    If it wasn't for that one, there would be no Hendrix Strat, or Dylan Strat...
    I love ya, Chuck, but that is really not a defensible position. Even if Hendrix didn't play his Strat because of Holly, he was also influenced by Curtis Mayfield, who played one - and Buddy Guy, who (I believe) played one first, too. And Dylan didn't play a Strat because of Holly - and Leo Fender didn't develop the Stratocaster for Holly alone; there were many others who used it.

    The fact that (if that Strat is the one) Dylan played what is likely the first real electrified performance at a Folk Festival is, in and of itself, as iconic an item as the Monterey Strat that Hendrix burned, or the Beano Burst that Clapner played, or Hank Marvin's red Strat, or Willie Nelson's Trigger. It was the signal that Dylan had moved on, that he was widening both his horizons and his musical palette. It might not have been the SOUND of the guitar that mattered in that case but the very fact that it was used at all that was significant...

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  23. #23
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    The new album by Bob Dylan
    Ten New Songs
    Coming September 11
    Who releases an album on September 11? Really?

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

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    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    Who releases an album on September 11? Really?
    At some point you have to move on. People release albums on Pearl Harbor Day. The only reason people don't release records on Memorial Day etc. is because albums come out on Tuesdays.
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    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erock_Germany View Post

    I have a weird memory of him doing Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band but that may just be a flashback from the late 70s....)
    You are correct! I saw Hendrix play in 1968 and IIRC, he opened the show with "Sgt. Pepper's." He definitely played it but I just can't remember if it was the opening song.

    I just read "Room Full of Mirrors" a biography of Hendrix by Charles Cross. It is quite well-written and very informative, even though it has none of the guitar nerd detail we all love. Cross says that two days after the release of the Sgt. Pepper's album (a huge event for those who were around back then), Hendrix opened up a very important show in London with the song. If that was not audacious enough, the band didn't even know the song and Hendrix showed it to them backstage before going on. Everyone who was anyone was at the concert, including Paul McCartney who Cross says loved Hendrix's chutzpah.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

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    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I love ya, Chuck, but that is really not a defensible position. Even if Hendrix didn't play his Strat because of Holly, he was also influenced by Curtis Mayfield, who played one - and Buddy Guy, who (I believe) played one first, too. And Dylan didn't play a Strat because of Holly - and Leo Fender didn't develop the Stratocaster for Holly alone; there were many others who used it.

    The fact that (if that Strat is the one) Dylan played what is likely the first real electrified performance at a Folk Festival is, in and of itself, as iconic an item as the Monterey Strat that Hendrix burned, or the Beano Burst that Clapner played, or Hank Marvin's red Strat, or Willie Nelson's Trigger. It was the signal that Dylan had moved on, that he was widening both his horizons and his musical palette. It might not have been the SOUND of the guitar that mattered in that case but the very fact that it was used at all that was significant...
    +1 (and well said, I might add)
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

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    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I love ya, Chuck, but that is really not a defensible position. Even if Hendrix didn't play his Strat because of Holly, he was also influenced by Curtis Mayfield, who played one - and Buddy Guy, who (I believe) played one first, too. And Dylan didn't play a Strat because of Holly - and Leo Fender didn't develop the Stratocaster for Holly alone; there were many others who used it.

    The fact that (if that Strat is the one) Dylan played what is likely the first real electrified performance at a Folk Festival is, in and of itself, as iconic an item as the Monterey Strat that Hendrix burned, or the Beano Burst that Clapner played, or Hank Marvin's red Strat, or Willie Nelson's Trigger. It was the signal that Dylan had moved on, that he was widening both his horizons and his musical palette. It might not have been the SOUND of the guitar that mattered in that case but the very fact that it was used at all that was significant...
    Yeah, but if it were not for Buddy someone may have said well, that thing is not selling and we should discontinue it. Far reached but at a time when someone also had discontinued all forms of the real Les Paul it is in a basic way plausible....
    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Rickenjangle posted what I was thinking. When Holly was playing, everybody was playing an electric guitar. No big woop.

    Dylan's use of THAT one guitar changed history. Not because it was a strat.

    Probably most iconic thing about Holly is his glasses, not his guitar.

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    Forum Member ch willie's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    In England, Holly was big, but the bigger Strat influence may have been Hank Marvin of Cliff Richard's band.
    If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Rick, I have to say that there is that strum pattern that Holly did that's pretty amazing - like a speeded up Bo Diddley beat - but yeah, I think his look was just as influential to many as was his sound.

    A (slightly) more modern analogue to that is my love for Brian Setzer and Gretsch guitars. The Stray Cats came along at a time when I was learning to play guitar, and their look was as influential to me as anything. As was REM with the Rickenbackers and U2 with the Wall o' Voxes.

    Sometimes I think that my whole choice of gear (Strats, Teles, Gretsches, jangly Rickenbackers, Vox and Fender amps) is all a product of MTV...and for the earlier generation that was of course the Beatles and Stones and Buddy Holly - as well as Hendrix, Clapner, Beck, and Page.

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  31. #31
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Buddy Holly and Clapton influenced my desire for a Strat in the late '70s.

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    I would say Buddy Holly made the strat a rock n roll guitar. Dylan used it to "go electric". Hendrix made it heavy. the blues guys would have em because they were you know expensive and flashy i assume. its like the whole clapton made the les paul relevant idea. guess thats what buddy holly did with the strat. relevance. just my thought on it

  33. #33
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Geez, are you guys bored? I love all guitars and am such a geek that I enjoy ALL of the history.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Forum Member Billy Porter's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by ch willie View Post
    In England, Holly was big, but the bigger Strat influence may have been Hank Marvin of Cliff Richard's band.
    Hank Marvin's influence was huge. Most UK guitarists from the sixties took up guitar because of him. I seem to remember reading that Clapton was influenced by him. Mark Knopfler had to have a red Strat just like Marvin. Mick Ronson who started in the late 60's was also a Marvin fan and often played FBI when live with Ian Hunter.

    I've also read 'Room full of mirrors' and seem to remember that Hendrix was much influenced by Dylan and I believe took to singing because of Dylan

    Personally I'm not really interested in Dylan's Strat and certainly not the reason I bought a Strat
    Last edited by Billy Porter; 07-17-2012 at 02:12 PM.

  35. #35
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    The History Detectives show with the Dylan guitar is on PBS tonight.

  36. #36
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Interestingly, I'm so old I think of Clapton as a Gibson guy. He wasn't a Strat guy until later in his career. He was Slowhand before he went Strat. The Strat was well established in rock long before EC or Dylan. In Dylan's case it seems to me it wasn't that he used a Strat that mattered, it was he went electric. He could have done that with a Dano with the same results.

    My opinion, of course.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  37. #37
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    He was Slowhand before he went Strat.
    Yes. Yes, he was.
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  38. #38
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Interestingly, I'm so old I think of Clapton as a Gibson guy. He wasn't a Strat guy until later in his career. He was Slowhand before he went Strat.
    What drew me to Clapton was the Bluesbreakers, Blind Faith, Delaney and Bonnie and Friends, Derek and the Dominoes and his first solo album (oddly, not so much Cream or the Yardbirds)

    Anyway, the pics that I saw of the brown sunburst Strat on the cover of his first solo album and the back of the Layla album, along with pics of Buddy Holly with his sunburst Strat are what drew me to the guitar. This was the '70s. I just wanted to play the music that they were playing and had no idea what guitars produced what sounds.

  39. #39
    Forum Member Erock_Germany's Avatar
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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    Rickenjangle posted what I was thinking. When Holly was playing, everybody was playing an electric guitar. No big woop.

    Dylan's use of THAT one guitar changed history. Not because it was a strat.

    Probably most iconic thing about Holly is his glasses, not his guitar.
    Yes......I was being blinded by the Fender Bug again. This is indeed what it is all about.

    I do remember reading though that once Holly was twanging that Strat, sales took a huge jump towards the masses. Up until then it was definitely a luxury item in the pro music scene...
    "Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House

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    Re: THE Dylan Strat Found?

    Sometimes I think there's something wrong with me, for my deep dislike of Bob Dylan's music.

    That and Robert Plant. Love the band, hate his voice.

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