Going for the Zhangbuckers

[Gravity Jim]

After much discussion with David Plummer (the guy who winds them) and with our own Refin and Kap'n, I'm going to order a set of Zhangbuckers to replace the functional but lackluster hummers in my PRS SE Singlecut. Now that I've played them for a while, I'm finding the import pickups to be a little muddy and not as sensitive as I'd like.

I'm going with a set that Refin uses in his old Les Paul: what David calls a 'Woodbucker' in the neck position, and a 'Slugbucker' in the bridge. The definition I heard in Refin's clips of this setup is off the hook.

I won't have them for 4 to 6 weeks. But once installed, I am expecting to have about $450 invested in a guitar that will tonally disembowel anything Gibson-y on the wall at GC.

[Kap'n]

You will not be disappointed. David makes great pickups!

[Don]

I can't wait to hear what you think of them!

[Gravity Jim]

I can't wait to get 'em! (But I hafta.)

[refin]

If not already there,add some good CTS pots.

[Gravity Jim]

Refin, what I've read online indicates that the CTS pots won't fit unless one is prepared to make the holes in the guitar a little bigger. Totally not up for that... I'd screw up the finish or something for sure.

[Kap'n]

There were good, normal-sized pots in my SE.

There was also a bright cap, which I removed.

[Gravity Jim]

Kap'n, the "bright cap" is to help the guitar retain highs as you turn down the volume, right? Why did you remove yours?

David indicates that the pickups I'm buying are plenty bright on their own....

I do want to change the knobs on the pots. Lisa thinks the amber speed knobs are "ugly."

[Kap'n]

Kap'n, the "bright cap" is to help the guitar retain highs as you turn down the volume, right? Why did you remove yours?

I find that as you turn the volume down, the sound gets unnaturally bright. I'm not a big fan of them on guitars. 50's wiring (tone control connected to wiper) helps make it more natural.

[Gravity Jim]

That sounds like the hot set-up. Some stuff I saw online said that Gibson is wiring their guitars this way again.

[refin]

Jim,I use this awl (?) to make holes bigger for tuners and pots...stick it in from the top of the guitar and go slow,it does the job pretty quick!


'50s wiring--


Kinman treble bleed---this one worked really good for me.

[Don]

My Soapy had full sized pots in it. I can't remember if I had to ream the holes larger. The original pots were not that bad. Id install the pickups and move the tone control's lead.

I've tried all of the treble bleed cap circuits that I could find and don't like any of them. They make my fuzz pedal sound funny rather than clean up nice when I turn the guitar down.

[Gravity Jim]

Well, my order's in. Here's hoping the wait is 4 weeks instead of 6... I'm stoked.

[Don]

I hate waiting for stuff!

[stratcat33511]

I replaced import pots with CTS
My guitar came alive and speaks three languages now !

[Gravity Jim]

Sounds like the consensus is that the pots in the SE's are okay... Which is good 'cause I don't want to go to that much trouble to get the good from the Zhangs... Swap them in and rock is the general idea.

[refin]

Sounds like the consensus is that the pots in the SE's are okay... Which is good 'cause I don't want to go to that much trouble to get the good from the Zhangs... Swap them in and rock is the general idea.

They may be fine.
All I know is that on my Epis,changing the pots and switch made a huge difference.I had already swapped the pups,but it only helped about 25%.
Keep us posted,Jim!!

[Gravity Jim]

Well... Now I'm not sure. I'd be a little nervous reaming out the holes... but I want to get more than 25 percent of the goodness out of them.

On the other hand, I've been really underhelmed by Epiphone import quality, and wouldn't be surprised if the Epi guts were way crummier than the PRS SE line.

Kap'n, what did you do on your Korina?

[Kap'n]

I kept the original pots and switch. They were fine. I just pulled the bright cap, and did 50's wiring.

[Don]

There was nothing wrong with the pots in my PRS SE Soapy. I replaced them because I wanted an RS Superpot volume pot because I liked it's taper. I'd do as Kap'n says.

[Gravity Jim]

So let it be written, so let it be done.

I noticed something on refin's 50's diagram.... I've seen lots of drawings that show just a wire from the tone pot to the volume wiper, but your diagram shows a little green cap. What's the value of that cap, and which way do you guys prefer to do it?

(I'm not really obsessive... I just have this neurotic thing about nailing things down the first time. When I'm doing a home improvement project, my motto is, "I'm doing every step exactly right because I'm only gonna do this once!")

[Don]

It doesn't really matter how you do it- that's just the way Gibson did it. If I recall, they did ES guitars differently- I suppose so they could get the electronics back into the guitar.

If your guitar has only 1 volume and 1 tone control you won't want to follow that diagram anyway, just swap the cap's lead to the output and clip the bright cap.

[Gravity Jim]

Thanks, Don.

Hey, Kap'n, in your Korina were the routes deep enough to accommodate a standard leg plate? David asked me what size I want, and I was going to open it up but I figured it was easier to just ask you.

[refin]

So let it be written, so let it be done.

I noticed something on refin's 50's diagram.... I've seen lots of drawings that show just a wire from the tone pot to the volume wiper, but your diagram shows a little green cap. What's the value of that cap, and which way do you guys prefer to do it?

(I'm not really obsessive... I just have this neurotic thing about nailing things down the first time. When I'm doing a home improvement project, my motto is, "I'm doing every step exactly right because I'm only gonna do this once!")

The value of the tone cap is really about as subjective as the value of the pot.For years,the standard for a bucker was a 500K with a .047 cap (and 250K/.022 for Fender)---but people have experimented,swapped around,ect.Some swear by 300K pots,some like a different value with a bucker.My '55 has the old bees in it,I'm guessing they must be around .047?

[Gravity Jim]

Thanks for the pic, Refin... You know, I haven't swapped a set of pickups in a guitar in, like, 15 years, so I need all the help I can get! I have screwed around with my Strat wiring, making my own blender pot and wiring that and the clean boost inside. But humbuckers are so new to me, I didn't even know what David meant for sure when he asked what size "leg plates" I wanted! :)

[Kap'n]

Thanks, Don.

Hey, Kap'n, in your Korina were the routes deep enough to accommodate a standard leg plate? David asked me what size I want, and I was going to open it up but I figured it was easier to just ask you.

You're talking about the routs for the "ears" in the pickup cavities? I didn't have to do anything funky. I told David what I wanted, he sent them to me, and I didn't have any issues.

[Gravity Jim]

Okay... Good enough for me.

[Gravity Jim]

Well, this is going to sound pretty stupid, and I certainly can be, but in the tradition of my love/relationship with gear...

I realized yesterday, after spending a day tracking guitars ( well, okay, four hours) that changing pickups would not actually make the PRS sound any better when I am playing it. In fact, you can barely hear the difference between a Strat and the Singlecut when I'm playing it.

So I've asked David if it's too late to cancel my order. If it is, there wil be a discounted, no-wait set of Refin-style Zhangbuckers on the market shortly. :)

[thegeezer]

Sorry it didn't work out. With my PRS Narrowfield mini buckers there is a great difference in the way my strats sound compared to them and they are suppose to sound like strats.

[Gravity Jim]

Geezer, you may well be a good enough player to hear the subtleties in pickups. I know a lot of good players can. But my limited skills also limit what sounds I can make with a guitar, and in my hammy hands that PRS sounds just like my Strat. :)

[thegeezer]

Oh you sell yourself short, a little guitar knob experimentation make a big difference on most guitars. And yes I can hear the difference. Thanks J. I respect your talent.

[curtisstetka]

Why not at least try those pickups when they arrive, Jim?

[Gravity Jim]

Curtis, I am assuming I can get pretty much what I paid for them if I don't install them.

[tugboat]

Jim,

I know your feeling. Sometimes, despite totally different guitars, a given player just sounds like a given player. I've heard good players whose sound definitely sounds different with different guitars and I've heard players that you wouldn't know they changed guitars unless you actually saw the guitars.

[Gravity Jim]

Tugboat, I'm the latter... 45 years playing the guitar, and I never got any good. I think it has something to do with me being kind of generally spineless and lazy.

I'd sell the damn PRS, too, but my wife would kill me. I bought it kinda by accident, and it's sorta cool, but I really don't need it for anything. Lisa doesn't understand the gear thing: she thinks me buying gear and selling it when I realize I don't need it is a symptom, and for some reason it angers her.

One thing's for sure: hanging out on guitar forums makes me buy stuff I don't want.

[tugboat]

Tugboat, I'm the latter... 45 years playing the guitar, and I never got any good. I think it has something to do with me being kind of generally spineless and lazy.

I'd sell the damn PRS, too, but my wife would kill me. I bought it kinda by accident, and it's sorta cool, but I really don't need it for anything. Lisa doesn't understand the gear thing: she thinks me buying gear and selling it when I realize I don't need it is a symptom, and for some reason it angers her.

One thing's for sure: hanging out on guitar forums makes me buy stuff I don't want.

I've heard the latter more than the former. I'm talking the difference between a Tele and a Les Paul Special too! Or a 24 fret PRS (bone stock) and a vintage SG Special. Or (way back) when Fezz Parka posted a couple clips of his Norlin LP and his Tele cranked through his Tweed Deluxe. Of course I could also just be tone deaf! Or maybe you just notice more when you're the one playing?

I think guitar sounds begin to seriously blur with cranked amps.

Although, let's be real...buying new toys is just too much fun!

[Rickenjangle]

Jim,

I know your feeling. Sometimes, despite totally different guitars, a given player just sounds like a given player...I've heard players that you wouldn't know they changed guitars unless you actually saw the guitars.

Sadly, listening to my live shows - I don't think I sound that much different either from guitar to guitar - surely, some make me play different, and all of them feel different and respond differently. But overall, there are gross differences but really it's all shades of colour...

Tugboat, I'm the latter... 45 years playing the guitar, and I never got any good. I think it has something to do with me being kind of generally spineless and lazy.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to call out bullshtick on this one. Jim, you're a great player, and are one of the few on here who can truly say that you make your living with your music!

One thing's for sure: hanging out on guitar forums makes me buy stuff I don't want.

Oh yeah... or need! I want it ALL!!

[Don]

Tugboat, I'm the latter... 45 years playing the guitar, and I never got any good. I think it has something to do with me being kind of generally spineless and lazy.

Sounds kinda like me except I have an excuse- I've only been at bit for a little over 30 years - I took a break between 9 and 15 years old! I'm a very lazy practicer- I play every day but I seldom practice!

I can't honestly say that I've heard a good recording of my playing but I'd like to think I sound at least a little different on different guitars.

Judging by my more recent choices in guitars- a Carvin DC150 and AE185 and a pink Epiphone Sorrento - guitar forums don't seem to have too much of an affect on my gear buying habits!

[Gravity Jim]

Sounds kinda like me except I have an excuse- I've only been at bit for a little over 30 years- I took a break between 9 and 15 years old!

That's when I worked at it hardest, Don! I took my break from 25 to 30 or so.

[NeoFauve]

Jim,

I know your feeling. Sometimes, despite totally different guitars, a given player just sounds like a given player. I've heard good players whose sound definitely sounds different with different guitars and I've heard players that you wouldn't know they changed guitars unless you actually saw the guitars.

That's sort of why I cleaned house a while back. Not so much I sound like ME no matter what. There was just a lot of sonic overlap btw what I had (parts-o-Tele, MIK Casino &Schecter Strat). For the most part, I could get the sounds that I'd actually use from any of them.
I sat and plugged 'em in one after another, and came to the conclusion that i didn't need most of them.
The Schecter, I had a sentimental long-term connection with. So it's the only electric i have now.

Having no job afforded me the time to ponder such things. Time and economics were both factors in the process and the decision.

But really, I think I can hear more difference btw my two decent acoustics. The only electric I actually miss having AND playing is my Bluesbird. Played one recently and got strong twinges.