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Thread: Is this worth it?

  1. #41
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Don, looks awesome! Great job.

    Why an aluminum on the E/A and brass on the rest?
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  2. #42
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    It's supposed to add highs to those two strings- make it twangier. I didn't buy the saddles, I won them in a raffle. I was happy with the brass saddles that I had on it. I don't feel like it made a huge difference.

    I've also had straight Fender re-issue saddles, StewMac intonated brass saddles and Callaham intonated saddles on the guitar. They were all fine.

    I haven't changed anything on the guitar (besides strings- and I seldom do that) in at least 5 or 6 years. What really made me appreciate the guitar was when I bought a 5E3 clone. That amp and the guitar are a matched set. Once I spent enough time with it, I became a real fan and grew to like it with any amp.

    The cool thing about this guitar is that it plays like a dream and it's very responsive- it allows me to express myself really well.

    I've actually worn a divot in the body on the treble side of the bridge where I apparently hang on while playing without realizing it!

    You can see the saddles in this pic-

  3. #43
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    So, if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that a rosewood board might detract from the sound I seek?
    Yeah. Rickenjangle seems to agree.

    Some of the sparkle off the top end will just disappear. More of the attack and lively character will be gone too. Gotta be maple. One-piece too, not like the maple boards from the mid sixties. I like tall frets too as they let you get real good pressure and give plenty of room for spanking the strings around.

    So much of the tele sound has to be coaxed from the guitar by plucking the strings. I can't emphasize this enough. If you can't get a squawk with it unplugged, it ain't gonna do it amplified.

    I love that about rosewood boards on strats as it keeps them warmer sounding. Teles do the twang thing for me and I like a fatter darker tone from my Strats.

    Either build from kit parts (basic warmoth neck and body will get you there) or get MIM and add good pickups and wire. 18awg cotton braided like vintage.

  4. #44
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    But I don't. I want a Telecaster that twangs. Fender doesn't make twangy Teles anymore

    I call shenanigans. I've played some great twangboxes lately. The CVs got it. All you need to make sure is that you have one of the models with a baseplate under the pup. Lots of them don't anymore thanks to the geezer SRV blues hacks that want that boingy sound. So Fender gives them that.

    But at the heart of a Tele's twang is the baseplate. That's the ONE thing that separates it from other guitars.

    Coincidentally, it's the one thing you don't have on your wish list.

    Now, do you want copper or steel for the baseplate. Or iron?

    Now secret # 2, is the baseplate is a tad loose, that's not a bad thing.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  5. #45
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    If the baseplate is loose, that will add to the microphony of the pickup, no?

    For someone looking to get a vintage tele twang, that's probably a good thing...

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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  6. #46
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    If the baseplate is loose, that will add to the microphony of the pickup, no?

    For someone looking to get a vintage tele twang, that's probably a good thing...
    Yes. It's a very fine line between an awesome sounding pickup and one that squeals when you don't want it to, though!

    I believe that the original pickups were potted before the baseplate was added so the baseplate didn't get potted but there was a layer of wax between the baseplate and the coil. I suppose some of that wax would have melted when the ground was attached to the baseplate.

    A steel bridge plate and a pickup with a magnetic baseplate are requirements.

    As far as the rosewood fingerboard is concerned- I don't know if i completely agree that it directly reduces "twang", however, the more simple a Tele style guitar is, the twangier it seems to be. I'd stick with the original design of a 1-piece maple neck.

  7. #47
    Forum Member buckaroo's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    To my ears, rosewood takes a small but appreciable bit of the top end off the Tele. I like strats with either Maple or Rosewood 'boards but Teles gotta be maple

    what he said!

  8. #48
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    I call shenanigans. I've played some great twangboxes lately. The CVs got it. All you need to make sure is that you have one of the models with a baseplate under the pup. Lots of them don't anymore thanks to the geezer SRV blues hacks that want that boingy sound. So Fender gives them that.

    But at the heart of a Tele's twang is the baseplate. That's the ONE thing that separates it from other guitars.

    Coincidentally, it's the one thing you don't have on your wish list.

    Now, do you want copper or steel for the baseplate. Or iron?

    Now secret # 2, is the baseplate is a tad loose, that's not a bad thing.
    In my various posts about this, I have often mentioned that the RW and CV series were the exception. It was a RW Tele that started me on this search. I wanted a Fender MIA Tele, non relic, that sounded as good as the RW and played as well, but I couldn't find one unless I went to high end CS relic, starting at around 3500. Rick told me about the CV and he was absolutely right. Not MIA though.

    Thus my conclusion that Fender no longer makes that kind of guitar. I used to say "all Fenders are crap" but perhaps that is unfair. Now I just acknowledge that they are going for a different sound and feel, except for those models already noted.

    As for the base plate, it is no coincidence that it is not on my list. I have no knowledge in this area at all. This is why I am in this forum, asking questions. Copper vs steel vs iron...? I have no clue what the difference might be. Please explain. I am happy to hear about this. I am just about to drop a fair chunk of money on a custom made Tele. I want to get it right.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  9. #49
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Yes. It's a very fine line between an awesome sounding pickup and one that squeals when you don't want it to, though!
    I haven't had to do it, but if it squeals too much, you should be able to run a soldering iron along the baseplate to re-seat it.
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  10. #50
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    The baseplate should be made of a magnetic material. Along with the bridge plate and steel pickup mounting screws, it creates a magnetic device that's important to the sound of a Tele. It also completes the ground.

    I also believe, and some guys will disagree, that for maximum twang, a Tele should not be shielded beyond the metal parts that are standard on an old Tele- no shielding paint or foil lined cavities.

  11. #51
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n View Post
    I haven't had to do it, but if it squeals too much, you should be able to run a soldering iron along the baseplate to re-seat it.
    I've done that. It works well.

  12. #52
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    The baseplate should be made of a magnetic material. Along with the bridge plate and steel pickup mounting screws, it creates a magnetic device that's important to the sound of a Tele. It also completes the ground.

    I also believe, and some guys will disagree, that for maximum twang, a Tele should not be shielded beyond the metal parts that are standard on an old Tele- no shielding paint or foil lined cavities.
    Ummm, I'd say conductive, but not necessarily ferritic. I have a copper one on my Esquire. We want to induce an EMF, not create a magnetic field.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  13. #53
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    K.I.S.S principle.

    Buy either of the Seymour Duncan Antiquity Tele/nocaster pickups and be done with it.

    The plate is part of the pickup.

    Here's one in a medium heavy ash 70s tele with a brass 3-saddle bridge:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDsGikd6xE

  14. #54
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Some feel that the change in the magnetic field (increase? more focus?) caused by a steel plate is desirable as well. I'm far from an expert in this field, but I like the effect of a steel plate. Others must as well as a ferrous plate is more often used than a non ferrous plate.

  15. #55
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Wilko, others have said that if I want something along the lines of that Bakersfield sound, I should be thinking of less output than the old Nocaster style pickups. I did play a very nice custom made Tele that was meant to repro the early 50s sound, and it was not even close to what I wanted. IIRC, it had Ellis Nocaster pickups.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  16. #56
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    I tend to like a little more "hair" on my sound. Lower output is a fine idea for more bakersfield Don Rich stuff.

    I tend to think it's easier to dial it down than to make it louder so I opt for the 50s style pickups.

    DO you have someone who can sit with you and play the guitar to get the sound.

    I don't know how you pick, so I can't tell what's up, but there is a chance that could play a bunch of great teles that do it all, but you may not know it 'til you get the hang of wrangling those sounds out a tele.

    Practice trying to make your strat sound like a tele. If you can get close, then try it on a tele. You'll be amazed.

  17. #57
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Wilko, if I had to name player whose sound I want to emulate, it would be Pete Anderson: very clean, very unmediated (the story is he even hated reverb), and twangy for sure. So I definitely do NOT want that overwound slightly hairy sound. I am not a fan of Keith Richards and I do not want anything even remotely resembling the sound he gets.

    As for the technique, I have played TONS of Telecasters that twang. I have not bought one of those for three reasons:

    1) they are made in China
    2) they are relic'ed
    3) they cost as much as a car

    So, the plan was to try to find out what made the twangers twang and then just get one made. With the help of some folks in these newsgroups, I think I am getting pretty close now.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  18. #58
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Pete Anderson is the man. His sound is awesome.

    Back in the 80s I tracked an album at Mad Dog studios where he was involved on some level. I used a BF twin reverb there with JBLs. loud and clean. a hint of hair.

    One of the tracks is in the vibraslap thread. I used a '62 RI strat.

    anyway, low to medium output will surely do that. High output too, if you just roll it back a touch. 60s and 70s are that kind of sound.

  19. #59
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    Pete Anderson is the man. His sound is awesome.
    Yep. I know him mostly from the first two Michelle Shocked studio albums, and the Captain Swing Revue live video. I think he was mostly playing Deluxe Reverbs with the bright cap snipped with a variety of teles - one with a strat bridge. It all sounded like Pete.
    Several guitars in different colors
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  20. #60
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Didn't he use a Strat a lot with Dwight Yokum?

  21. #61
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    I always saw pics of him with a Tele.

    As for his not liking reverb - there was surely enough of it on "A Thousand Miles From Nowhere"!

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  22. #62
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Didn't he use a Strat a lot with Dwight Yokum?
    He had at least one or two set up with a middle pickup, Nashville style.
    Several guitars in different colors
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  23. #63
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Used a hardtail strat a lot with Yoakam.

    A lot of the deep twang stuff is dan electro baritones.

  24. #64
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    K.I.S.S principle.

    Buy either of the Seymour Duncan Antiquity Tele/nocaster pickups and be done with it.

    The plate is part of the pickup.

    Here's one in a medium heavy ash 70s tele with a brass 3-saddle bridge:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDsGikd6xE
    That is a danged good pickup. I use the Jerry Donahue pups which are close the Antiquity.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  25. #65
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Didn't he use a Strat a lot with Dwight Yokum?
    Everybody uses a Strat now and then.

    You might be thinking of Ray Flacke who played with Ricky Skaggs. He used a Strat a more than a few times (although his main guitar was a Tele). Even Vince Gill, the Telemeister, plays a Strat quite a bit.

    The best way to get Tele tones from a Strat is in two steps: 1) replace the Strat neck with a Tele neck 2) replace the Strat body with a Tele body. If you do that, you are probably going to get pretty close to a Tele sound, although, of course, all guitars are different!
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  26. #66
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I always saw pics of him with a Tele.

    As for his not liking reverb - there was surely enough of it on "A Thousand Miles From Nowhere"!
    Yah, I think his not liking reverb is just a myth among purists of one type or another. I absolutely love reverb and always have it in the surf zone.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  27. #67
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Pete Anderson did most of his live stuff from the beginning withthis Esquire:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Z_ts2Y3bU

    he later added two strat pickups to it:

  28. #68
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Wilko, there is a typo there ("withthis Esquire") and it can go two ways:

    1) with his Esquire
    2) with this Esquire

    I agree with 1) but if you mean 2), how did you get your mitts on HIS Esquire and when did you add the other two pickups!!!

    Here is Anderson showing off his 1959 Esquire and it sounds awesome.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  29. #69
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    I googled and found that pic online. That is HIS esquire.

    it was at the TDPRI:
    http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...-esquires.html

  30. #70
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post

    Here is Anderson showing off his 1959 Esquire and it sounds awesome.
    Ain't that the truth!

  31. #71
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    You might be thinking of Ray Flacke who played with Ricky Skaggs. He used a Strat a more than a few times (although his main guitar was a Tele). Even Vince Gill, the Telemeister, plays a Strat quite a bit.
    Nah, I thought I read it in an interview somewhere. I could be wrong.

  32. #72
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Here's Pete Anderson playing one of his hard-tail strats.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFL9HzNM_gA

    Bass player is Dusty Wakeman who was the engineer at Mad Dog where I tracked guitar parts in the 80s.

  33. #73
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    I googled and found that pic online. That is HIS esquire.

    it was at the TDPRI:
    http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...-esquires.html
    Ok, now I want a three pup Tele. I think "Nashville Tele" is so unimaginative. How about "Telesquire 2+1"?

    Ok, I had a few beers tonight in a blues bar. Arrest me!
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  34. #74
    Forum Member Hambone's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    1k is too much for a butcher job, any chance of a picture?

  35. #75
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Is this worth it?

    You know, driving home another thing hit me - part of what makes a good twang sound in country is not the guitar, but the juxtaposition of the clean Fender sound against the deep, round country bass. Many a twangy sounding guitar in the mix when iso'ed sounds really more just clean with compression and slapback.

    As is often the case, the sound of the guitar by itself might not seem twangy but in the mix it does. What you want is good cut. A band's sound is the sum of its parts more than just the sound of a guitar.

    As in all things subjective, YMMV.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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