Is it a Relic or is it Broken?

[Offshore Angler]

Hey Doc, everyone likes a fine piece of ash but pine or poplar is the schiznizzle for twang.

[Doc W]

You're a laugh riot. But I'd bet your haircut makes you look stupid.

I won't comment on this because I am pretty sure you were drunk when you posted it.

[Offshore Angler]

I'm pretty black and white on this.

To me, a relic is a fake. Period.

It is a new guitar that has been altered or produced to look old and worn.

I'll accept that some people by them to simulate the experience of buying a piece of musical history. Maybe it's as close as they can afford to the real thing. But it's still a fake.


And to the people who say relics play better because they are relic'ed:

BUUUUUULLLLLLLLSSSSHHHHHHIIITTTTTT. If you believe that I have a bridge for sale.

To me a relic is in the same class as putting a snake emblem on a 6 cylinder Mustang and pretending it's a Cobra.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's my opinion dammit. If you can have yours I can have mine. Fair is fair.

[Kap'n]

I have nothing constructive to add here. I just thought I'd post to add to the mayhem.

[Doc W]

I have nothing constructive to add here. I just thought I'd post to add to the mayhem.

Kap, I have to disagree with you strongly on that. I find your attitude arrogant!

[pc]

I have nothing constructive to add here. I just thought I'd post to add to the mayhem.

I hope at least your post means you have power again. Hope all is well!

[NeoFauve]

In light of all the wear on that one, the pickguard point doesn't seem out of place.
Sometimes for fun I try to imagine the plausability of the wear. The life that it's meant to represent.
Like, why is that trem cover so white in such a heavily worn and stained area?
Maybe the simulated player wore clear through the oiginal, and HAD replace it so his kimono or suede fringe wouldn't get caught in the trem springs.

It'll be getting real wierd when they start making them routed for a Floyd and drilled for a locking nut, but with all the divots filled to simulate the experience of an actual player who gave up on being the next Eddie Vai Malmsteen, got a mid mgmt job and 18 years later started going to blues jams.

[Doc W]

...to simulate the experience of an actual player who gave up on being the next Eddie Vai Malmsteen, got a mid mgmt job and 18 years later started going to blues jams.

Coffee, out my nose, all over the keyboard...

This thread has lost its mind in the funniest of ways.

[Frat Rettle]

mmmmmm...suede fringe.

[buckaroo]

It'll be getting real wierd when they start making them routed for a Floyd and drilled for a locking nut, but with all the divots filled to simulate the experience of an actual player who gave up on being the next Eddie Vai Malmsteen, got a mid mgmt job and 18 years later started going to blues jams.

That is exactly what I am talking about! To me, the broken pickgaurd was a "tiny step" in that direction.

[Kap'n]

I hope at least your post means you have power again. Hope all is well!

Nope, on a laptop sitting outside the library, which doesn't open for an hour, and using their wi-fi.

[Billy Porter]

All my guitars were pristine until........................I started gigging a few years back plus rehearshals. Now dings appear by magic

I personally don't get why people pay large sums to relic guitars.
If you want a quick relic - lend your gear to your teenage children

[dirtdog]

BUUUUUULLLLLLLLSSSSHHHHHHIIITTTTTT. If you believe that I have a bridge for sale.

has it been pre-rusted?

[Offshore Angler]

has it been pre-rusted?

Don't laugh Double D, around here in the resort area I live in they actually build new bridges and make them look old. They actually do pre-rust them.

[buckaroo]

All my guitars were pristine until........................I started gigging a few years back plus rehearshals. Now dings appear by magic

I personally don't get why people pay large sums to relic guitars.
If you want a quick relic - lend your gear to your teenage children

I used to share that point of view. Then I bought a Masterbuilt Fender relic. I struggled with the aging / wear at first, but the guitar sounded and played so well that I couldn't put it down. It was better than the several original vintage 50's strats that I played!

So I began to "put up with" the relic aspect if it meant that I got an incredible guitar in the process. Now I don't mind the relic aspect at all. In fact, I kind of like the necks worn on the back instead of being "sticky" new. I now own several Masterbuilt Fender relics. They all sound and play superb.

I am not pretending that the relics are old....I have old guitars when I want to play vintage instruments. I am just enjoying the high degree of musicality that my own particular relic specimens provide. I would feel the same way about them even if they were not relics. But relics do seem to dominate the current landscape of available new high end Fenders.

This thread is about where to draw the line with the relic process. Is it OK to break the guitar as part of the relic job? What do people think about that? Where do people draw the line?

I didn't want to buy the one with the broken pickgaurd because to me it seemed "broken". Then I struggled with that realization. Curious what others think.

[Doc W]

buck, I was out at my favourite shop today, just because I happened to be in the neighbourhood. I played, yet again, my favourite little Daphne Blue relic, selling for around 4k. It is one of the top three nicest Teles I have ever played, in 45 years. I can actually probably afford it, but I won't buy it for two reasons.

1) it is a crime that Fender won't make nice players like for less, when they can
2) I would never feel right playing a relic. It's just me

So, as to the degree of relicing, for me the answer is zero. When I buy a new guitar, it looks new. When I buy a used guitar, I expect to pay accordingly.

[Offshore Angler]

buck, I was out at my favourite shop today, just because I happened to be in the neighbourhood. I played, yet again, my favourite little Daphne Blue relic, selling for around 4k. It is one of the top three nicest Teles I have ever played, in 45 years. I can actually probably afford it, but I won't buy it for two reasons.

1) it is a crime that Fender won't make nice players like for less, when they can
2) I would never feel right playing a relic. It's just me

So, as to the degree of relicing, for me the answer is zero. When I buy a new guitar, it looks new. When I buy a used guitar, I expect to pay accordingly.

Good stuff. People bitch about the price of Fenders and then pay extra for relic'ing that adds nothing to the playability. So what then, are they really paying for? Image?

[Fripperton]

I look at relicing as just a finish option. If that's what floats your boat then full steam ahead. As Abe Lincoln said, "If there are people that like that sort of thing, there should be that sort of thing for people to like. Or maybe it was Frank Zappa. It was a long time ago and I wasn't there. At any rate they do nothing for me aesthetically and I can find a new guitar that plays just fine and tweak it if I like. I can remove the finish from the rear of the neck if that makes it a more comfortable playing experience. Insofar as hardware is concerned I can appreciate an aged patina but I have to stop short of rusty parts. That's getting to close to "broken" territory. As for chipped pickguards, well I don't like them on the original models and would have a hard time accepting them as part of the intended look on a reissue. Guards cracked around the screws don't appeal to me either even though I know a lot of authentic ones cracked from shrinkage. I don't care for the look. I guess I just grew up in a time where good guitars were expensive and you had to save for a long time to get that guitar you had been dreaming of and you took care of it because of that. I've had guitars that I've played onstage for years and would never acheive SRV levels of finish deteriation so I just don't expect them to look old even with constant use. I don't see how you can get KWS levels of wear 6 inches away from the effing strings.

[ch willie]

So, as to the degree of relicing, for me the answer is zero. When I buy a new guitar, it looks new. When I buy a used guitar, I expect to pay accordingly.

+1

The original guitar in question, to me, is broken.

[curt1lp]

The pick guard, knobs and pickup cover aging look very fake to me, I like to look at pictures of vintage Strats and once used to the look of real ones , features like that pop out.

The aging of the body also looks too random, too heavy.

The colour of the clay dots is too orange, should be a grey brown colour.

So yes that is just a finish option, IMO not satisfying to one who would like a dead on vintage look.

I would rather partsocast one - I would end up with something about as realistic for a lot less money.

[Doc W]

I need to make something else perfectly clear. It's ok if YOU like relics. I have friends who don't agree with me on everything and we are still good friends. I don't want to make this into a "I don't like this and you do so you're a jerk."

So, friends, continue to debate!

[Billy Porter]

+1

I like old guitars and don't mind buying used - a few dints and scratched just add character. I don't even mind relicing - just paying large sums of money for it. Guess it's because I'm a tight *rse

[dirtdog]

.

[buckaroo]

+1

The original guitar in question, to me, is broken.

Thanks for giving your opinion of the guitar in question. I am curious what others think about it as well.

[buckaroo]

I need to make something else perfectly clear. It's ok if YOU like relics. I have friends who don't agree with me on everything and we are still good friends. I don't want to make this into a "I don't like this and you do so you're a jerk."

So, friends, continue to debate!

+ 1

[Fripperton]

I've seen a lot of vintage guitars over the years and can remember when an original in that condition would sell for less, not more. Guitars that ended up looking like that are the reason so many of them ended up refinished. Before there was the "Vintage" market they were just considered old scratched up guitars that needed to be repainted to look good even though some ended up looking like, as George Gruhn put it, they were done with barn paint applied with a broom. I've even heard stories of people who have thrown out old ones when they bought a new one. (Urban legend warning) Having said that I can easily see how someone could develop an affection for a guitar in that condition. The broken tip is a bit much for me but is pretty common on guitars that are in that physical condition so looking at it as a piece of art as well as an instrument it does fit. I just don't know that it's worth paying more for that "feature". I'd have an easier time buying it without the broken off tip.

[Direstraits]

I still can't understand why people would want to pay "extra" for what amounts to a damaged guitar. - If I wanted one that looked like that I'd buy a used one. (just my opinion, & I respect the right of others to disagree). That said, the damage in the example posted is a different thing to the more subtle after market "ageing" that contributors to the LPF can submit their guitars to. (although I view the ageing differently to the relicing part of the process).

[wingnut1]

I wouldn't buy a new guitar in that condition. I don't even know if I would ever buy a vintage guitar in that condition. I like to relic my own guitars.

[Kap'n]

I wouldn't buy a new guitar in that condition. I don't even know if I would ever buy a vintage guitar in that condition. I like to relic my own guitars.

I probably wouldn't buy a green guitar or one with a graphic finish, either. It's really down to what you want.

Fashion is what it is. As long as it doesn't impair functionality, it doesn't really matter.

[Doc W]

Kap, if it didn't matter, Fender couldn't charge what they do for a reliced guitar and there would be no market for relics. We are only talking about this because it DOES matter a huge amount to a lot of people willing to shell out great wads of cash.

[dirtdog]

I probably wouldn't buy a green guitar or one with a graphic finish, either. It's really down to what you want.

Fashion is what it is. As long as it doesn't impair functionality, it doesn't really matter.

THIS!

[dirtdog]

Kap, if it didn't matter, Fender couldn't charge what they do for a reliced guitar and there would be no market for relics. We are only talking about this because it DOES matter a huge amount to a lot of people willing to shell out great wads of cash.

Same goes for anything non-standard. See my argument in the UnStandard thread.

[buckaroo]

I probably wouldn't buy a green guitar or one with a graphic finish, either. It's really down to what you want.

Fashion is what it is. As long as it doesn't impair functionality, it doesn't really matter.

I thought that I would agree with Kap'n. But I had to stop considering that guitar even before functionality was affected.

The broken pickguard tip didn't impair functionality really. Yet it struck me as "broken enough" that I wouldn't buy the guitar. So, something made me stop even before it affected functionality.

One could argue that the removed finish, exposing bare wood, could affect functionality by exposing wood to damaging elements. Yet, I kind of "got over that" after buying my first relic and being mesmerized by how well it played.

I think as relics get more and more dramatic, we tolerate and accept "the look" as long as the guitar is a fabulous instrument. At least that is what happened to me. The broken pickguard is just another line drawn deeper into the sand of "damge & wear" that a buyer must get used to.

I think that someday most guitars will have subtle degrees of wear to make them feel better (easier) to play...without the obvious damaged look that we see now. I think the past decade has been the start of that process. Once we get all the "beat up" look out our system we will shift back to more "new" looking guitars, though they will feel broken in a bit. A result of what we learned from the relic process overall. I think that will be the long term effect from the "relic period" of guitar history.

[TT100]

This is too strange. That Strat in question is what it is. Relic'd Shmelic'd. I think it looks fine. Fashion or cosmetics, I like what I like but I don't like Les Pauls with razor blade cut finishes meant to mimic checking.

Do I have, or would I pay $5k+ for that Strat? No. That the whole point is about the point of the PG being broken off is crazy to me. If the rest of the guitar floats your boat, buy another PG. The guitar looks like it's been the house Strat at a Brownsville Texas roadhouse for 40 years.

YMMV, My .02, FWIW, EIEIO.

TT

[wingnut1]

It's funny that this thread is here right now. I said I wouldn't buy a relic'd guitar, but I have a funny situation going on. I have a Gibson SG Std on Craigslist. I got an email this morning offering the following:

you can have ALL of this for the Gibson if you want.....

1) Fender Blacktop Jazzmaster 3-tone sunburst
2)Fender Road-Worn Stratocaster 3 tone sunburst
3) SX 70's J-Bass Copy (Maple Neck/Board Black Block inlays + binding) 3 tone sunburst with black pickguard and active Bassline pickups
4)Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120 2x12 amp (for guitar/keys/or bass)
5) Boss Overdrive/Distortion and Fender Tuner Pedals
6)Monster Cables

I actually said okay even though it has a road worn series guitar.

One of you guys aren't punking me, are you?

[Rickenjangle]

It's funny that this thread is here right now. I said I wouldn't buy a relic'd guitar, but I have a funny situation going on. I have a Gibson SG Std on Craigslist. I got an email this morning offering the following:

you can have ALL of this for the Gibson if you want.....

1) Fender Blacktop Jazzmaster 3-tone sunburst
2)Fender Road-Worn Stratocaster 3 tone sunburst
3) SX 70's J-Bass Copy (Maple Neck/Board Black Block inlays + binding) 3 tone sunburst with black pickguard and active Bassline pickups
4)Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120 2x12 amp (for guitar/keys/or bass)
5) Boss Overdrive/Distortion and Fender Tuner Pedals
6)Monster Cables

I actually said okay even though it has a road worn series guitar.

One of you guys aren't punking me, are you?

That sounds pretty fishy to me. But if it's real, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Here's why:

The Blacktop is actually a very nice guitar and plays great. I almost bought one before I bought my Classic Player JM ('cause I was tired of waiting to try one). The Road-Worn Strat is nice even though it's faux-relic'ed and could be sold for a decent buck. The SX basses are great bang for the buck - would make a great gift for a beginning bass player in your family; the Jazz chorus is a solid $350 on the used market and going nowhere but up because Roland is (crazily) selling new ones for a grand....And some pedals.

I'll bet you could sell most of it off for more than you're asking for the SG - and still keep the Jazzmaster!

[Doc W]

Here is what happened to me yesterday. I decided to get my old Les Paul goldtop either restored or repaired. The back is fine, but all the gold is gone. If I put on a brand new gold finish, it might look wierd. I might have to relic the gold to make it match.

And I hate relicing. Doesn't that crack you up?

[Cogs]

You could have the entire guitar refinished to look brand new & keep your integrity intact.

[buckaroo]

YMMV, My .02, FWIW, EIEIO.

TT

What does "YMMV" mean?

[Kap'n]

What does "YMMV" mean?

"Your Mileage May Vary" - as seen in 70's car commercials.