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Thread: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

  1. #41
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    After using tube amps for decades, I am so over them. Why are they so popular? Probably because they are a whole bunch cheaper than good rack gear.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  2. #42
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    After using tube amps for decades, I am so over them. Why are they so popular? Probably because they are a whole bunch cheaper than good rack gear.
    No. It's because they sound good, don't require a whole lot of tweaking to sound good, and are reliable. What's not to like?
    Several guitars in different colors
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  3. #43
    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Not all amps are as cheap as a DRRI or a Vox. I have tried stuff made 5 years ago and couldn't adjust to the washed out tones that this amp modeler offered. Maybe things are different now I will have to see. Whats the best and whats the price of these rack mounts.

  4. #44
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I think OSA is talking about his Fractal stuff...I haven't heard his rig, 'cause last time we played together he was still using the DRRI for live stuff. BUT - when he A/B'ed the POD/Power Engine with the DRRI, I'd have to say in a live situation if many of us had to take the Pepsi Challenge we'd be hard-pressed to pick...

    So I trust his ears when it comes to good, realistic modeled tone...

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  5. #45
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I think OSA is talking about his Fractal stuff.

    I'm sure. But I like being able to plug a guitar into a 5E3 or a Deluxe Reverb and get a great sound within seconds, without preprogramming.
    Several guitars in different colors
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  6. #46
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    The truth that amp-lovers may not be ready to admit is that in the FOH, a lot of the current modeling/emulating stuff is indistinguishable from a miked amp. It sounds that good.

    The truth that some direct proponents may not be ready to admit is that the feeling to the player from modeling or emulating gear has miles to go before it comes close to a real tube amp. The plug and play that Kap'n refers to makes such a difference to freeing up your mind to be in and about the music.

    I lived that one specific dream of hauling nothing heavy to a gig for six months in 2010, and yeah, it was nice. Two guitars and one small pedalboard: one trip in and out.

    But there are better dreams.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by pc View Post
    The truth that amp-lovers may not be ready to admit is that in the FOH, a lot of the current modeling/emulating stuff is indistinguishable from a miked amp. It sounds that good.
    It can sound very good. I have no issue in stating that at all. The work that's required to get there is not something that I'm willing to put the time into, not when I am more than happy with plug-and-play alternatives.

    And the type of places I play in, I have yet to play a show that wasn't part of a larger package when I wasn't running the sound myself.
    Several guitars in different colors
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  8. #48
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Again, understand that I'm firmly back in the amp camp, but the idea of tweaking ad nauseum is purely a digital modeler thing. With the Tweed character pedal it's literally four knobs--set them like you'd set an amp. Simple, and effective as hell through the mains.

    What I'm getting at is the interaction between player and amp. You can't emulate that. I suppose there's something that could be made up if you had a monitor near you just for the guitar's sound, although that would defeat the purpose of the ampless rig. But there's something deeper still about how a tube amp interacts with your playing that no emulator or modeler has the ability to do, at least as yet.

  9. #49
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I agree, Pete - and the fact that I am in the Kap'n camp as regards carrying my own PA, setting it up, having no soundman, etc...well, it really doesn't lend itself to going ampless.

    As the singer/guitarist/bandleader of my own band, I own and carry the PA as well as my guitars/amps, etc...I think over the next year we're gonna add another member that specifically does the schlep/setup/sound duties...I can't do it all.

    JB

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  10. #50
    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I agree, Pete - and the fact that I am in the Kap'n camp as regards carrying my own PA, setting it up, having no soundman, etc...well, it really doesn't lend itself to going ampless.

    As the singer/guitarist/bandleader of my own band, I own and carry the PA as well as my guitars/amps, etc...I think over the next year we're gonna add another member that specifically does the schlep/setup/sound duties...I can't do it all.

    JB
    +1

  11. #51
    Forum Member Coque's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    PC, I think you get where I'm comin from. I love my tube amps and play them at every opportunity, but while using the in-ear monitoring system I am really just hearing the sound as it comes through the earbuds. As such, the monitor mix being correct, I play off that sound and not from the amp directly. I am going to try the Sansamp Blonde in attempt to have a good sound I can work from that doesn't require me to lug all my gear.
    Gigs with my band aside, I take every opportunity to play live with my amp and would never think of using any modeler or sansamp pre. However, our drums are V-drums and go direct as does our bass and the only real "acoustic" element of our sonic footprint is my voice. My iso-box creates very little sound (just the occasional "plink, plink" escapes) but is pretty large. If it works even close to my iso box/DRRI set-up, I'm using the Blonde.
    Check out my band's stuff:

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  12. #52
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I've decided to stay with the amp setup - we'll see what I feel like after a summer of lugging stuff from private party/gig to gig...maybe I'll just do the ampless stuff in the winter when the schlep is worse.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  13. #53
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    pete, I run the power engines for that reason. It's just like having a combo, I can find my feedback sweetspot etc.

    As far as tactile feel. I can decide how much sag i want and even change it between songs.

    As far as setup time. Meh, plug in the rack and the PE, run a cord, plug in the guitar and off to the races. No fiddling with knobs required. Same sound consistently from night to night.

    I think where most people "don't get it" is that they are thinking of the old floorboard multi-fx/modelers, not modern rack stuff.
    I've been digging the BOSS Gt-Pro lately too, since you can run parallel amps.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  14. #54
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
    Several guitars in different colors
    Things to make them fuzzy
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    pete, I run the power engines for that reason. It's just like having a combo, I can find my feedback sweetspot etc.
    PEs aren't bad, but again that defeats the entire purpose of the question posed in this thread. Why lug "amps" if the idea is to go direct and have no onstage sound?

    As far as tactile feel. I can decide how much sag i want and even change it between songs.

    As far as setup time. Meh, plug in the rack and the PE, run a cord, plug in the guitar and off to the races. No fiddling with knobs required. Same sound consistently from night to night.
    I think these two paragraphs sort of contradict one another. If there's something I can (and/or do) change between songs, my head is out of the playing game and into the tweaking game. But I do agree that there are certain direct options that require almost no tweaking compared to stuff from five and more years ago.

    I think where most people "don't get it" is that they are thinking of the old floorboard multi-fx/modelers, not modern rack stuff.
    I've been digging the BOSS Gt-Pro lately too, since you can run parallel amps.
    Not necessarily. I've tried all the latest Boss stuff and hated it. For my ears and tastes, the software in my iPad sounded less sterile than any of the newest Boss stuff, the GT-Pro included. And yes, I know how to move away from presets and build a decent sound, but even basic tones (again, for my ears) were lifeless and two-dimensional.

    You don't need to sell me on how the newest stuff sounds mixed with the band, but you'll never be able to sell me on any similarity between my onstage interaction with a real tube amp as compared to anything digital even through a powered monitor that happens to have a guitar speaker in it instead of a full-range speaker. There is no comparison.

    I've gigged 50-100 nights per year since 1985, and since 2008 I've been playing an average of 150 nights per year. I've tried everything there is to try. I love the sound of tube amps but am not in anyway predisposed to hate other things because they're different or new. I fully believe in rock on with whatever works for you.

    Just saying: There's tube amps, and there's everything else.

  16. #56
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by pc View Post
    I fully believe in rock on with whatever works for you.
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    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    To each there own, I have no problem with stuff that works.

  18. #58
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by pc View Post
    Just saying: There's tube amps, and there's everything else.
    ...and coming from the man who rocked an iPad...that's sayin' somethin'...



    This weekend begins our "big" gig season - I've got about 20 booked so far, and with all of our members having careers/kids/spouses - plus a major move and my wedding this summer...it's gonna be a busy summer...and just for fun I think I'm gonna experiment with crazy combinations of my amps...

    for instance, I'm gonna try taking a line out of my AC15VR and then split that signal in stereo through my Marshall C5's...Overkill? You bet. 180 degrees opposite of the original post? Sure. Fun, tactile, and impressive visually? Right on!




    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  19. #59
    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I had been away for a while and this thread is still going.....

    I have been going ampless for about 6 months now. I HATE seeing my Mesa Boogie sitting in the corner. After the six months that I have been going ampless, I feel I am qualified to comment again. I've noticed that the gigs we have been getting called for, not that I have been seeking out, have been MUCH better. We have been getting the town fairs and civic functions that we weren't getting before. I know some of that is that we are better known and have gotten better as a band, but still, it is a coincidence. When we play smaller venues (nicer than the standard bars and the money is better too!!!), the problem of stage space has been eliminated. One guy hired us on the spot for his next function when I showed him that I could use the faders to turn down the whole mix, including the drums. he also commented on the smaller footprint our band. Lastly, now that that we send all the instruments through the monitors, everyone is freer to move around a bit. They are not tied to standing in front of their amps. We are small band with an active P.A. of about 2000 watts and another 1000 watts in monitors. We do not have a soundman - I do it from the stage - and there are no roadies. Most of the time we are a quartet, some times we are a trio. Depending on the gig and how many members we have, I make $125. - $200. per gig. Most importantly... My rig is Guitar-Pedalboard (BOSS Tuner, Vox Wah, TS-9, Microvibe, BOSS DD5 Delay, Sansamp GT2, - P.A. Notice, there is not a rack of crap to tweak, or anything expensive. We play the same Classic Rock and Blues tunes that umpteen million other bands play.
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

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    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Oh yeah, my point was that it can work. I had to change my mindset from "I want it my way or the highway" to "what can we do as a band to give us an edge over the competition?"
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Again, whatever works is great. But I can't for a second agree that a band's success or bookability is tied to whether or not a master fader can change the band's volume nor how big the footprint is. Over a nearly a thousand shows, I can assure you ours is not. We play small clubs, big clubs, weddings, private parties, Columbus Blue Jackets and Clippers games at the stadiums and everything in between. We happen to use IEMs instead of powered monitors, but that's just what we do. It is not an "edge."

    A band that runs entirely direct and/or a band with real drums and big ole' amps can equally make heads bob and asses shake depending entirely on the talent and stage presence of the band. Sound gear is a tool.

    I certainly would agree with the statement that a band that pisses off management because of excessive loudness or any other issue will not get called to come back. But the "edge" is not having smaller or quieter gear, it's knowing how to use whatever you have.

  22. #62
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Fully agree, whatever works, use it. I like to use a real amp too. It's just that these days the venues for cranked amps are few and far between. I'm also one of those guys that embraces new things, like to try different gear. Never bought into the whole "tone" thing.

    So I summed it up in song:

    The Internet Ate My Tone

    In the end - do what makes you happy.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    And to be clear, I have never said "cranked" tube amp. Because I too have never been a tone guy, in that the only true amp sound is a cranked tube amp. Feh.

  24. #64
    Forum Member Coque's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore Angler View Post
    Fully agree, whatever works, use it. I like to use a real amp too. It's just that these days the venues for cranked amps are few and far between. I'm also one of those guys that embraces new things, like to try different gear. Never bought into the whole "tone" thing.


    So I summed it up in song:

    The Internet Ate My Tone

    In the end - do what makes you happy.
    Dude, that song is hysterical! A great summation to the whole darn thing. I get the Sansamp Blonde on Monday and hope to use it for next weeks gigs. I'll post if this works or not.

    BTW, so I see the username Offshore Angler and I seem to remember seeing that you live in Florida. Where abouts? I just moved to Hutchinson Island from Miami. I love this place! And I love to fish.
    Check out my band's stuff:

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    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    For the record, I never once have said the direct route gave me better tone... I just said it is easy, it can work and it can work great.

    I do miss my amp. But at the same time, the "Marshall on one" thing wasn't cutting it either. Now that the summer is here and we have some festivals to play - with sound and soundman provided, I am looking forward cranking up my amp.

    OSA, that is great!!!
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

  26. #66
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by concert410 View Post
    For the record, I never once have said the direct route gave me better tone... I just said it is easy, it can work and it can work great.

    I do miss my amp. But at the same time, the "Marshall on one" thing wasn't cutting it either. Now that the summer is here and we have some festivals to play - with sound and soundman provided, I am looking forward cranking up my amp.

    OSA, that is great!!!
    Thanks man. It's based on a true story. I did it in demo mode, so it's a bit unrefined and I had a terrible cold. But it still makes me giggle. I love writing funny songs.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Good amps for me, sorry that didn't sound like a tube amp set at it's sweet spot. But that could have been the recording, the song was funny.

  28. #68
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by thegeezer View Post
    Good amps for me, sorry that didn't sound like a tube amp set at it's sweet spot. But that could have been the recording, the song was funny.
    Funny that, it was m DRRI.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  29. #69
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    All goes to show that tone is subjective...

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  30. #70
    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Then it didn't come trough in the recording.

  31. #71
    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Maybe he should have used the Sansamp Character pedal...
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

  32. #72
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Thanks for making my point completely.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I was in too much of a hurry to be totally sarcastic, but the point was made and it is a good one. Ironically, I have bad GAS for a new DRRI.
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

  34. #74
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Love the song...awesome! And hilarious.

    I've heard what OSA can do with a DRRI and a "trusty Pro-Co Rat." It's just one of those things ya gotta hear in person. Those, in combination with his Esquire, will tear yer face off...

    Oh, one constructive criticism, Chuck...you NEED to get the Keeley mod done for your compressor pedal.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  35. #75
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    Love the song...awesome! And hilarious.

    I've heard what OSA can do with a DRRI and a "trusty Pro-Co Rat." It's just one of those things ya gotta hear in person. Those, in combination with his Esquire, will tear yer face off...

    Oh, one constructive criticism, Chuck...you NEED to get the Keeley mod done for your compressor pedal.

    Bazinga!
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

  36. #76
    Forum Member Coque's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    Got the Blonde this week. Spent an hour lovin' up to her this morning and I am duly impressed. It's not my DRRI, but it sounds much better than I thought it would. I need a sweet clean sound I can use as a base for my other pedals and, so far so good. The controls are incredibly sensitive and I worry about settings getting changed fractionally and affecting the tone dramatically during performance. That said, it really does a convincing job and I think two would be better as one could be set as a clean, DRRI amp sound and the other as a Bassman tone. Alas, another pedal is not in the budget right now.

    I may dare to gig with it Friday and Saturday. I'll post an update on Monday and maybe a sound file or two.
    Check out my band's stuff:

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  37. #77
    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I'm waiting for your review....
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

  38. #78
    Forum Member Coque's Avatar
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    After spending some serious quality time bonding with the Blonde, I felt confident I could use it live. I played two gigs with it this weekend and, despite some cable failures, it worked quite well. I used it as a clean sound as a base for my pedals and it worked very well. It did not sound so great with my wah but my wah always sounds bad through the in-ears (at least for me). Overall, I really dug it. And it saved me dragging my amp, iso-cab and saved stage space. It was the very first time I've played direct for a live performance and I was a bit leery at first. But I think it's gonna work very well. I've got four gigs this week and intend to use it at 3 of the 4. By next week I ought to have a better sense of what they can do as I won't be listening to it through the filter of a bad cable phasing in and out (as well as the jack on my strat having a series of problems). It was a rough couple of gigs for gear failure so that took center stage. That stated, I'll re-post a more detailed account after some more gigs.
    Check out my band's stuff:

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    "Follow your bliss"
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  39. #79
    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Jan 2003
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    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I see you were as surprised as I was. There is a picture floating around of Les Paul holding his pedalboard. The board was a bunch of BOSS pedals going into a SANSAMP.
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

  40. #80
    Forum Member Coque's Avatar
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Treasure Coast
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    313

    Re: Sansamp Character Pedals - To Go Ampless or Not...

    I saw Les Paul at the Irridium Jazz Club in NYC a couple of years before he died. Yep, all Boss pedals going into a sansamp. I was surprised too, especially when he played - he rocked and sounded great.

    The sansamp was a big surprise. I expected the same feel as a pod or a cybertwin but this felt really natural. It responded in a very natural way and is very usable. I'm pumped!
    Check out my band's stuff:

    The BIG Coque Band's Facebook Page
    The BIG Coque Band's Youtube Page

    "Follow your bliss"
    --Joseph Campbell

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