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Thread: Recording Acoustic Guitar

  1. #1
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    Recording Acoustic Guitar

    OK, I'm gonna show how little I know here. But that is the point, get smarter. I have been recording my electric guitar, and pleased with the results for now. The chain is: guitar - Line 6 Pocket Pod - GarageBand. Sounds brittle, it aint a tube sound but...ok for now.

    I want to record my acoustic guitar into GarageBand. I have a Fishman pickup for acoustic, sounds good with tube amp, but running the acoustic guitar into the - Line 6 Pocket Pod - Garageband = kills the acoustic tone.

    What do I need to mic the guitar and get it into GarageBand? Just a USB mic? An adapter for the Fishman to plug into the computer input? Do I need a pre-amp between the mic and computer?

    Sorry to ask such a lame question but there is so much crap people are trying to sell - and computers evolve so fast. I'm on a Mac running OSX 10.5.8 and Garageband 5.1. I'm not looking to go all the way here, just get some decent results.

    Here is a link to what I have done with out much effort so far, lots of fun: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...bandID=1044945


    thanks
    P e a c e KYC


    Strat or Tele out of a 5E3 .

  2. #2
    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    Recording anything digitally, you really can't go wrong investing in a good microphone and audio interface. You don't need to spend a ton. A Shure SM57 and a USB audio interface like M-Audio Fast Track (with XLR and 1/4" ins) is a good starting point. You can use the SM57 for many applications and the Fast Track can be used for direct to DAW from guitar, bass, keys, etc.

    Sounds like you're going from the Line6 into the computer direct? How? Though a 1/8" stereo jack? That would probably be the cause of your crap tone with the acoustic....possible impedence issues thoughout the chain.

    Me, I've got an SM57 and 58 and a large diaphragm condenser mic that suits many different applications....voice, electric guitar, acoustic instruments and I plug that into an older M-Audio MobilePre USB interface and then into Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro and/or Cubase (both DAWs, like GarageBand). Works well enough for me. The MobilePre has the added bonus of phantom power for my condenser mic.

    With USB interfaces, you want to have low latency for multitrack recording/playback with at least 24-bit, 48 kHz audio sampling..,good enough at the prosumer level. Not sure what options exist for Mac. There are Firewire options here as well.

    I've not done this but I've seen some people use a pair of small diagphragm condenser mics with acoustic guitar....one pointed near to the sound hole and another pointed to the neck, farther back from the guitar. Placement is critical and is subject to the vagaries of the guitar and player (as the theory goes) and goes to balance top and bottom ends. You would have to experiment. and again you would need an audio interface.

    Here's an example of the clarity you can get from a setup like I have.....just ignore the playing and singing quality...;-)...oh, and the drums were canned loops. Guitars were a Les Paul Studio and a Gretsch 5120 Electromatic through various patches on a Line6 POD 2.0....all routed through the MobilePre. Vocals were with the condenser mic through the MobilePre. Some reverb and echo added to the vocal tracks using VST in the DAW. My next frontier is getting MIDI keyboard sounds (Hammond B3 and Rhodes piano) recorded along with looped drums and guitar/vocal audio. More ambition than time these days, though.

    Yoo Hoo (JJ Cover)

    Other experimental stuff on this page
    Last edited by dirtdog; 01-31-2011 at 04:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Forum Member rudutch's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    jim is the guru, he will chime in soon
    do I look like I know what I'm doing?

  4. #4
    Forum Member Skip's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    Clayville has also done allot of online jam zone the past few years... he knows his stuff as well. thanks for asking the question, it is great to learn from those who have experience.


  5. #5
    Forum Member clayville's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    I'm running a (now) ancient version of ProTools (v.6.9) through an original mBox preamp/interface into a Mac PowerBook G4 that's still on OS 10.4

    My view is partly "it ain't broke, why fix it?" and partly "I'm broke and can't upgrade it anyway". The most important thing is learning to use what you get as well as you can, learning what works for you.

    I've come to believe that micing an acoustic sounds a thousand times better than going direct with a typical undersaddle pickup. It just sounds far more natural when you get it right. Your Pocket Pod just doesn't have the inputs for using mics, so I'd recommend getting some sort of interface/preamp. At the sub $300 level, you're not likely to hear a huge amount of difference in the preamps or the analog-to-digital conversion, so I think it's OK to go fairly cheap in this area. Any number of $120-$150 two-input devices are probably going to be fine for your purposes. If you've got the budget, I'd consider something like an Apogee Duet (where, I gather, you would hear a difference).

    Then you need one or more mics...
    As mentioned, it's hard to beat an SM57 for all-around utility and toughness if you're mostly recording electric. They're often used for micing amps and will also record your acoustic much better than an undersaddle, even though it's not an ideal mic for acoustic. But I've had lots of fun with this little combo-pak:
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT2041sp

    These aren't the most fabulous mics in the world, but they're not the most expensive either. And the combination of a small diaphragm condenser and a large diaphragm condenser - recorded either as two mono tracks or a stereo track - can make for a big rich sound with just a bit of software EQ, a bit of compression, a bit of reverb or delay between the two mics. They've served me very well for acoustic over the last four years or so.

    This recent example of my stuff isn't really a "fair fight" the way I did it, since I didn't put much effort into making the undersaddle sound better (or the mics for that matter), but: the first lead guitar is my J-100 mic'd with those mics above while the second lead is a Taylor 812ce with an older Fishman undersaddle plugged straight in. Pretty easy to spot the difference!

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...ongID=10121169

    Here's the J-100 doing some rhythm through those mics:
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=9406920

    I do think learning to use whatever equipment you settle on effectively is extremely important. It takes a while to figure out what works for you. But stepping up to even a modest rig like this (say, $300+ dollars for an interface + mics while still going through Garageband) will present all sorts of rewarding challenges while enhancing your sound. All without forcing you to learn a new DAW.

    Of course... you might also want to go nuts and look into the hugely daunting but also hugely capable pro-sumer software bundles that come with some of the interfaces. If I had it to do all over again, and as much as I've learned from ProTools, I think I'd build a Mac system around Logic or Logic Express if I knew I was going to do it as much as I have!

  6. #6
    Forum Member boobtube21's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    +1 what dirtdog said about interfaces.

    My mics of choice for acoustic are either a ribbon, or a large or small diaphragm condenser. The sdc is fast becoming my favorite.

    How you mic it is important too. Usually positioning the mic at about the 12th fret, aimed 45 deg. or so at the sound hole yields a pretty good sound.

    There's another method where you mic the body of the guitar underneath, aimed kinda up at the bridge, but it's tricky and placement is critical. This book explains it pretty well.
    Last edited by boobtube21; 02-02-2011 at 09:07 AM. Reason: aimed up at the *bridge*

  7. #7
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    I like using a pair of mics on my acoustic...an LDC about a foot away from the guitar, aimed at the bridge and an SDC at the 12th fret, aimed at the soundhole.

    But in a pinch, I've done this with good results: gone direct into the PC with an un-effected signal from the piezo, set flat, and the LDC positioned as above. The direct signal provides the crisp, while the LDC provides the body...

    Have you tried the Line 6 preamp/usb interfaces? There is one that has a pair of guitar inputs AND a pair of mic inputs with phantom power so you can use any two - plus the POD presets are managed on the PC and would make your pocket pod unnecessary...I think it's called the UX2 or some such thing...let's see if I can find a link...

    Line6 UX2

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  8. #8
    Gravity Jim
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    I'm no guru, and I need to stop posting here for a while, but as a last post:

    These guys covered everything. A 57 is a classic but doesn't do an acoustic real well, although it's better than a saddle transducer, which sucks. Mic position depends on the timbre of the guitar and the sound you're going for. Acoustic guitars are even more sensitive to playing style than electrics. If it feels good, it is good.

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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    You're the closest thing we've got to a recording guru, Jim -- I hope you wont be away long.
    "I haven't slept for ten days...because that would be too long." -- Mitch Hedberg

  10. #10
    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I like using a pair of mics on my acoustic...an LDC about a foot away from the guitar, aimed at the bridge and an SDC at the 12th fret, aimed at the soundhole.

    But in a pinch, I've done this with good results: gone direct into the PC with an un-effected signal from the piezo, set flat, and the LDC positioned as above. The direct signal provides the crisp, while the LDC provides the body...

    Have you tried the Line 6 preamp/usb interfaces? There is one that has a pair of guitar inputs AND a pair of mic inputs with phantom power so you can use any two - plus the POD presets are managed on the PC and would make your pocket pod unnecessary...I think it's called the UX2 or some such thing...let's see if I can find a link...

    Line6 UX2
    UX2 is a fine piece of kit...licensing is a pain for the software (DAW and Line6 Amp Farm) but is worth it!!! and the price is right...

  11. #11
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    I can add that mic placement is the key to getting a good sound.

    Don't about the "right" mic placement. put the mic where you want to, and listen to it. Try different places 'til you find one that works.

    A few things to watch out for:
    Most people assume that you have to put the mic in front of the soundhole--that is going to get real boomy.
    That mic out by the 12 fret aimed at the hole will get the low tones without the "boom" of air shooting straight out of the hole. It also gets some string and pick sounds which helps it sound like a human is playing it.
    Try aiming the mic at the bridge behind where you are strumming. You'll get an even dynamic and a smooth overall sound.

  12. #12
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    Try aiming the mic at the bridge behind where you are strumming. You'll get an even dynamic and a smooth overall sound.
    Yep, that's what I was saying too...kind of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    I like using a pair of mics on my acoustic...an LDC about a foot away from the guitar, aimed at the bridge and an SDC at the 12th fret, aimed at the soundhole.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  13. #13
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    yep you were.

    Now two guys have said it. It gets more true with every post!

    IMNSHO too many folks just cram the mic in front of the hole and get horribly muddy, boomy tones that are then made worse by trying to fix it with EQ.

    I gotta put my sound clip. here's an SM57 laying on the wrist pad in front of my keyboard at my computer desk recording into GarageBand. Rhythm acoustic is Martin D-28 with the mic about 10" away aimed perpendicular to the guitar body about 4 inches "south" of the bridge--centerline to the body. Lead guitar is 1954 J-160e. I'm leaning back and the mic is aiming straight at the soundhole and up into the side of the body about 12" away.

    http://www.ewilkins.com/music/tupelohoney.mp3
    Last edited by Wilko; 02-02-2011 at 03:48 PM.

  14. #14
    Forum Member boobtube21's Avatar
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    OK if everyone else is posting clips, here's mine! This is a band I'm recording right now, we are just about to enter the mixing phase. I'm the smart ass at 0:25 on the far left in the black and white t shirt.

    http://vimeo.com/19078575

    The song you here on this (about 1:28 or so in) is a very rough mix, but if you listen close there are 3 acoustic tracks in there. The one in the center is bleed from the vocal mic ;), the 2 panned hard L & R were miked with a MXL 441 (sdc), using the above mentioned 12th fret, aimed at the sound hole placement. I like this mic because it gives a good "sit in the mix" tone, so if you sink the level down a ways the guitar acts almost more like a percussive instrument, augmenting the hi-hats/etc. instead of acoustic-guitar-in-your-face. NTTAWWT....

  15. #15
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    Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

    wow thanks all. I got more than I expected. Plenty to work with here.
    thanks.
    P e a c e KYC


    Strat or Tele out of a 5E3 .

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