Lyric sheets:

[Cogs]

So when you're on a gig & you are reading off lyric sheets...
What's a good font face & size to use to make reading off a music stand a bit easier? Anybody have any suggestions?
thx

[Mesotech]

Sorry, can't help, but didn't want to leave you hanging without some form of response. We don't use lyric sheets at our gigs for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, we believe it looks unprofessional. Secondly, fully comprehending the usefullness of them even if only used as a safety net, sometimes the lights go out during a song and you have to keep playing and singing, if you can't sing the song without the lyrics in front of you, you won't be able to finish the song. Third, even having lyrics sheets in front of you as a safety net provides you with a crutch that ultimately leads to not bothering to learn the lyrics. But that's just us. I know plenty of local bands that use them and I've never heard any of their fans complain about it. Heck, even Geddy used a teleprompter on Rush's S&A tour.

For the fonts, I would experiment and go with the largest "fixed width" font possible to fit everything on at most two pages (so a book could be opened to show both pages at the same time). Also invest in a small battery operated reading lamp that will constantly keep the sheet illuminated for just those times when the stage lights trip a breaker.

[Wilko]

What I do is set the type (sometimes with chords or other notes) in InDesign pages. I then scale the type to the largest possible. Shorter songs end up with bigger type.

Most of mine are Helvetica
Titles 24 pt bold
text 14-18 pt. medium
Chords 14-18 Bold

Huge ring nylon fabric binder with zipper that looks like this:

[Rickenjangle]

Mine look like Rick's (Wilko's) but I just use Word.

I find a san-sarif font works best, and I try for 14-18 pt text too. I used to try to fit everything on one page but now if I can't see 'em I fit 'em on two.

I also think they look a bit unprofessional but we do about 42 songs in a typical night, and pull from a list of about 60-65 songs so I just can't remember every lyric.

[ch willie]

I think it looks awful from the audience's point of view. I can understand using them when you've got a long set. Still, I'd only use lead sheets iif learning them wasn't an option.

[Wilko]

I also think they look a bit unprofessional...

I use a very low stand that is lower than my guitar. It holds my setlist and the book. I don't use it on every song, but we have a huge list with hundreds of songs.

[Cogs]

I never considered using them when I was in a band full-time & gigging regularly. These days, however, I frequent a couple jam sessions w/top notch players. They wouldn't think twice about pulling out a sheet if someone calls a tune & they want to do it but aren't familiar w/it. And I'd like to be able to do some obscure stuff w/them.
I don't know if I will put the chords on there. Mainly I'm just thinking about the lyrics. I can remember how to play a ton of songs; the lyrics, I don't remember too well.
BTW Wilko- that LP bass just doesn't look right
lol

[thegeezer]

I am 60 I use them although I wish I didn't have too.

[chuckocaster]

hand written in red sharpie. easy for me to see, and i can make it as big as i want. i don't normally play with sheet music unless it's a really new song.

[gibsonjunkie]

Lyric sheets are so old-school. When we saw Aerosmith live a couple years ago they used Teleprompters... and that was for their own songs...

[refin]

When I do pickup work (bass mainly),you bet I have a small notebook on a stand just to my right with my charts written for songs/arrangements I'm unfamiliar with.
Lyrics? I admit,I've gotten lazy,and need to get better at remembering words! I use lyric sheets in our little fun band (where I currently play bass) on songs I should know the words to! The font in Wilko's post (#3) looks like ours.In a full time band,I don't use them.

[Coque]

Lyric sheets are so old-school. When we saw Aerosmith live a couple years ago they used Teleprompters... and that was for their own songs...

Believe it or not, a lot of cats use teleprompters! Wish I had one!

I use a stand for EVERY performance on EVERY song because I am paranoid about forgetting lyrics.

I used to be very self-conscious of my music stand thinking "Oh, this looks uncool" Then I got over it and realized it was more uncool to forget lyrics (and I've always sucked at memorizing them) Most songs I don't look at them, but it is reassuring to have them their anyway. Foolish is forgetting lyrics, not having a music stand.



BTW, for the record Word documents, using Verdana size 11 font.

[gibsonjunkie]

I was at a jam in Rochester a couple years ago and started doing an original song I'd never done in public before. I started the guitar part and couldn't remember the first line for the life of me...

[JM3]

I don't use them, but if I did it would have to be big and bold because I am almost blind LOL

[ifshnee22]

I-pad with GigBook software. Mounts on mic stand. When lites go black - U can still read sheets. When U can play thousands of songs, U really could use one.

[Offshore Angler]

Sounds like the perfect job for an iPad to me. Plus, it can be your backup amp.

[clayville]

No help on the topic, but:


Any time I read about refin "just" playing bass in a band, it breaks my heart. The "real" guitarists must have chops off the charts!

[Mikey]

Besides the bands I'm in, I also play at church about once a month. The lead singer uses an iPad mounted on a small holder attached to the mic stand. Works really good for him. They also display the lyrics on a big screen for the congregation and also on a small tv monitor for the back up singers. Generally, I hate seeing music stands on stage, almost as much as I hate seeing shorts onstage (unless outside) but can totally understand people needing them. Like Rickenjangle....he has a huge number of songs to remember and he only references it when we do some song we haven't done in a few years.

[Dangerine49]

These days I sit in with a lot of bands or play sets of new songs, so I can't memorize them all. Music stands don't work for me since I don't like looking down and to the side when I'm singing, plus they take up too much stage room and are easily knocked over.

So I attach a pick/slide holder to the mic stand and hang a clipboard with the lyric/chord sheets from it. If the venue is real dark, I have a small gooseneck LED music stand light which can clip to the bottom of the clipboard.

For fonts, I like Arial and the bigger the better.

[gibsonjunkie]

I saw Aerosmith in concert a few years agoi and they used teleprompters, so I figure it's OK for the rest of us...

[Rickenjangle]

... Like Rickenjangle....he has a huge number of songs to remember and he only references it when we do some song we haven't done in a few years.

For the record, I've completely quit using lyric sheets for my band Johnny B and the MVPs and haven't used a lyric sheet in Crossfyre the last few years.

Occasionally I will put a couple of key starting lines in big, big sharpie and put 'em on the floor.

One time, this Spring, I used a lyric sheet for a couple of songs that were requested by the party-planner just the week before the gig, where I didn't have time to memorize the lyrics.

My Johnny B. and the MVPs bassist and 2nd guitarist use 'em, and are buried in 'em the whole nite but I caught video of myself and realized that I, as the frontman, needed to get my nose out of the books. Plus, I don't see very well so I was always squinting and frowning.

Look, if I can't remember at least 3/4 of the lyrics, including all critical vocal hooks, then we Just Don't Do The Song!

YMMV

[Rickenjangle]

I am doing a solo acoustic gig this weekend, and it's only an hour, so I am using no sheets.

I think if I were going to do a 2 hour happy hour gig where people might request a tune, I might bring my big binder and a collapsible stand. That way I could quickly pull out the sheet and make the customer happy.

[Wilko]

I was taught in college music courses that it's not ok for solo players to use sheets.

Ensembles can use sheets, and it's encouraged.

[fatdog]

The largest font you can get... and you could also consider printing it on two facing page!

I'm not a fan myself, but have used them in the past... Always felt like I was cheating a bit. I think that it's more acceptable for longer sets (3hrs).

[Offshore Angler]

To me it just makes you look unprepared.

Reading a chart - I'll give some slack, but crib notes...nope.

[pc]

I'm with Wilko, Johnny and Chuck--for a "front-person" it just takes you out of the game, disconnecting you from your audience. In my main band our singer doesn't use them, and while he jumbles verses once in awhile, he is fully engaged with the crowd.

In a couple of my side projects with a different singer (who is vocally amazing IMO), he uses the iPad app mentioned above (GigBook) and loves it, but the energy level of the performance suffers greatly. His eyes are locked onto the iPad, and his hands are constantly ready to grab the mic stand with the "iKlip" if a drunk dancer comes too close to it, to keep the iPad from crashing to the floor.

Oh, and BTW, the "GigBook" app went haywire at one gig about four months ago and jumbled all of his songs, omitting about eight of them altogether. He had so trained himself to have the lyrics to look at that he was unable to sing even hugely popular songs that nearly anyone here could recite from memory. Apparently an update to that App fixed that problem, but the larger issue remains.

As GJ said, a lot of the big acts (of advancing age) like my own beloved Steely Dan use lyric sheets--Donald Fagen's eyes are locked on his ring-bound notebook throughout most of their shows--but in a small club for weekend warriors, I think it's the difference between a memorable band and a forgettable band, talent (sadly) notwithstanding.

[Doc W]

I am 60 I use them although I wish I didn't have too.

I hear ya!! The need for this stuff is definitely a function of age (memory and eyes).

However, some gigs do require them more than others. I can remember a lot of stuff just off the top of my head, but when playing with a songwriter, I often have a reminder of the chords and arrangement, at my feet, with a little light if necessary, in GIGANTIC FONT. Since it is just a reminder, I don't need all the words, just a shorthand to the arrangement and any "warnings."

[jeru]

71818 -- I use sheets similar to Wilko's, but I put the chords on the right and the lyrics on the left. I find it harder to follow the chords when they are in between the lines of verse. I don't have any pictures of them, but feel free to email me and I'll send you one in MS word format.

Edit: tried to update my email address, but message says email "banned" Are gmail addresses not useable..?

Anyway -- joshua - dot - m - dot - rosenstein @ gmail

[buckaroo]

I use a Manhasset stand with a Manhasset clip on light. I keep it low and a bit to the side. I started using it when I was playing in jazz bands.

Recently, I used it on a blues gig where I was the lead singer (and guitar player) and after the gig another local blues player told me he thought it looked unprofessional. He was nice about it.

After reflecting on it I have realized that it is very subjective what people think of using a music stand (presumed for lyrics).

Then I went to see Jimmie Vaughan in a small venue "dance hall". What do you know...there on the stage with him was a black Manhasset just like mine! He used it for his set list and some small accessories.

In the blues world...what's good for Jimmie Vaughan is good for anybody.


So use that music stand with a type size you can read. As long as it sounds good and you act professional, who cares what others think.

[buckaroo]

Steely Dan use lyric sheets--Donald Fagen's eyes are locked on his ring-bound notebook throughout most of their shows--but in a small club for weekend warriors, I think it's the difference between a memorable band and a forgettable band, talent (sadly) notwithstanding.

I just saw Steely Dan two weeks ago. Several players had sheet music and Fagen had notebooks on the keyboard out front. The hired guitarist read his gig all night. And I don't think it took anything away from the show.

[Coque]

As long as you deliver a good show it shouldn't matter. If you can use your music stand but, like 3 x 5 cards in a speech, if you can master using them without it coming between you and the audience, why should anyone care?

[Cogs]

Nope, can't use gmail, hotmail, or any of those

[pc]

I just saw Steely Dan two weeks ago. Several players had sheet music and Fagen had notebooks on the keyboard out front. The hired guitarist read his gig all night. And I don't think it took anything away from the show.

Please re-read my post. You're seeing Steely Dan because you know who they are and you are reacting to the talent of the sidemen and your familiarity with the material. (And it must be a different guitarist than Jon Herrington, who has never read a Dan gig in his 10+ year career with their touring band).

The difference is seen in bar/club bands who are trying to connect with dancers, and I was specifically referring to the front man/woman. There is absolutely a huge and noticeable difference. The "good show" you deliver should be impacted by your talent and enjoyment alone, but it isn't. The "show" is what the average non-musician club patrons want, not talent.

[Rickenjangle]

The difference is seen in bar/club bands who are trying to connect with dancers, and I was specifically referring to the front man/woman.

This is why I finally quit using books...every photo of me with my band had us all buried in the books.

I purposely work to get my guys to laugh, loosen up, and even make mistakes just so we can look like four guys just having fun playing music. I just wish Tom, my bass player, would get his nose out of the book and start moving - but he's kind of set in his ways. Fabulous player...anyway I have to generate the excitement myself, I guess...

[Don]

No book for me as a guitarist, just a set list with keys. If I bring a book I will become dependent on it and never learn any of our songs!

[buckaroo]

As long as you deliver a good show it shouldn't matter. If you can use your music stand but, like 3 x 5 cards in a speech, if you can master using them without it coming between you and the audience, why should anyone care?

+1

[Wilko]

...

I purposely work to get my guys to laugh, loosen up, and even make mistakes just so we can look like four guys just having fun playing music. ...

That is exactly the whole "mission statement" for my band The Nards.

Here's a description I just sent to a new drummer who will be filling in for some of our gigs:

Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 9:40:54 AM
Subject: RE: Nards reality check

Scott,

Added Nardal reality is that whether or not we practice something rarely has any effect on whether or not we'll play it (or play it well).

We played "Band on the Run" without any practice and the crowd had fun with it, as did I.

Key philosophy for me has always been just play the shit. It'll be fine. we're singing at a campfire. As long as we are in tune and can sing the chorus, it's music. 90% attitude/performance 10% chops. By attitude, I mean "lack of attitude". we are playing other people's music in the folk tradition. I like to think of our playing songs is akin (in many ways) to telling jokes. "Oh, here's one I remember. Hope I don't tell it wrong... so this guy walks into a bar..."

If we keep our fun attitude, we'll still be better than a bunch of shoe gazers who hole up in a practice studio and work out every nuance."

With that in mind, I keep my stand low and out of the way, and try to only use it when I need it, and still try to keep my eyes up and only glance at it.

I just noticed that in my pic (post #6) the bass player is looking at the book.

[buckaroo]

Please re-read my post. You're seeing Steely Dan because you know who they are and you are reacting to the talent of the sidemen and your familiarity with the material. (And it must be a different guitarist than Jon Herrington, who has never read a Dan gig in his 10+ year career with their touring band).

The difference is seen in bar/club bands who are trying to connect with dancers, and I was specifically referring to the front man/woman. There is absolutely a huge and noticeable difference. The "good show" you deliver should be impacted by your talent and enjoyment alone, but it isn't. The "show" is what the average non-musician club patrons want, not talent.

I reread your post but honestly (and kindly) I think that my tolerance of seeing lead sheets with Steely Dan has nothing to do with my being familiar with Steely Dan. Rather, it has to do with me choosing to assess a performance based on how it sounds. I have no problem with someone glancing occasionally, or even reading a lead sheet as long as it sounds good. Any visual distraction is secondary. I am sure that I could find exceptions to that rule, but generally it just doesn't bother me.

There is no right or wrong answer for using the lead sheet. There is just differing opinion about how various audience members react to it.

[buckaroo]

And it must be a different guitarist than Jon Herrington, who has never read a Dan gig in his 10+ year career with their touring band).

Well, after reviewing several YouTube videos of the recent Steely Dan tour what I see is that everyone on the stage, practically if not literally, has a Manhasset stand or similar device. Several of them have attached lights as well. But what I fail to find is a music stand or any sign of a lead sheet for Jon Herrington. My memory may incorrectly recall him using one. While everyone else onstage did use one. I will stand corrected that likely he did not use one. You would seem to be correct about that. Thank you for pointing that out.

But if he had one I wouldn't mind a bit

[Rickenjangle]

I know they use teleprompters but if I paid a ton of money to see a professional and famous band I'd be a bit cheesed off if I saw them buried in their music stands all the time - unless they were a philharmonic orchestra, that is...

In the immortal words of the Kaiserkellar's owner/manager to John, Paul, George, Stu, and Pete (Best): "Mak schau! Mak schau!"