Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: Why so few tweeds from Fender?

  1. #1
    Forum Member Henrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    28

    Why so few tweeds from Fender?

    Have you thought about how many blackface era Fender amp reissues (and new models) there are currently manufactured/reissued, but very few Tweeds? The '59 Bassman is the only Fender tweed I can think of right now. At the same time, Tweed seems to be favoured by the pricier boutique makers, and DIYers. Does Fender feel that they can't compete with Victoria & co, or do they care about nuthin' but the famous Fender "BF" tone of the '60s Fenders? Also, aren't there any boutique makers making "true" BF Fenders?

    Just a thought...
    Last edited by Henrik; 07-30-2002 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Standin' at the crossroads, shoutin' at the devil.
    Posts
    177
    How about the Bronco and LE Champ? Those are/where both finished in tweed.

    My complaint is that Fender's so-called "Amp Custom Shop" doesn't make more point-to-point amps. The demand is HUGE for point-to-point, at least big enough to justify regularly making point-to-point amps anyway.
    The man with magic hands.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Casey4s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    N. Virginia
    Posts
    92
    Originally posted by burst_king
    How about the Bronco and LE Champ? Those are/where both finished in tweed.

    My complaint is that Fender's so-called "Amp Custom Shop" doesn't make more point-to-point amps. The demand is HUGE for point-to-point, at least big enough to justify regularly making point-to-point amps anyway.
    I think he is talking about Tweed circuits, not just the amp covering.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Casey4s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    N. Virginia
    Posts
    92

    Re: Why so few tweeds from Fender?

    Originally posted by Henrik
    Have you thought about how many blackface era Fender amp reissues (and new models) there are currently manufactured/reissued, but very few Tweeds? The '59 Bassman is the only Fender tweed I can think of right now. At the same time, Tweed seems to be favoured by the pricier boutique makers, and DIYers. Does Fender feel that they can't compete with Victoria & co, or do they care about nuthin' but the famous Fender "BF" tone of the '60s Fenders? Also, aren't there any boutique makers making "true" BF Fenders?

    Just a thought...
    I don't know either. I'd like to see a RI Tweed (5E3) Deluxe or a RI Tweed (5F1/5F2) Champ / Princeton, or tweed Super or Tweed Low Power Twin.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    62
    It may be because the blackface amps had more features than the tweeds. For example, most guitarists like to buy amps that have built-in reverb. The blackface amps have it; the tweeds don't.

    I would still never part with my '59 Bassman RI. :)

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    154
    Good question, Henrik.

    Be a neat thing, if Fender would do them right...and they didn't cost an arm & a leg (fat chance on that combo). But, if it's just gonna be more pseudo-imitations of the past, they might as well forget it. ;)

    How bout the "Master-Built Custom Shop" models from the 2001 Frontline mag? The Two-Tone and Bass Breaker both look pretty fearsome; they must go for a pretty penny, tho. Anybody played either one?

  7. #7
    Forum Member Riscchip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    55
    Tried to delete this post. The delete button on the edit page doesn't work?
    Last edited by Riscchip; 07-30-2002 at 04:29 PM.
    --Carson

    http://www.riscchip.com

  8. #8
    Forum Member Riscchip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    55
    On a tangentially related note, one of the reasons Fender doesn't do super-anal reproductions of vintage amps the way some of the smaller companies do is because they don't want to be sued. Smaller builders are often not UL-certified, and don't have to be because they would make pretty skimpy targets for a lawsuit. Fender, on the other hand, could be sued for big bucks.

    That's what I've heard from Fender folks over at that other Fender forum.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Riscchip; 07-30-2002 at 04:35 PM.
    --Carson

    http://www.riscchip.com

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    154
    Originally posted by Riscchip
    On a tangentially related note, one of the reasons Fender doesn't do super-anal reproductions of vintage amps the way some of the smaller companies do is because they don't want to be sued. Smaller builders are often not UL-certified, and don't have to be because they would make pretty skimpy targets for a lawsuit. Fender, on the other hand, could be sued for big bucks.

    That's what I've heard from Fender folks over at that other Fender forum.

    Cheers.
    No kiddin'? Don't they have the rights to their own creations...or did Michael Jackson buy them up, too?

    Btw, I think the 'Delete' button in Edit mode is only good for deleting your edit text; not sure, tho.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Riscchip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    55
    Originally posted by Preztone


    No kiddin'? Don't they have the rights to their own creations...or did Michael Jackson buy them up, too?

    Btw, I think the 'Delete' button in Edit mode is only good for deleting your edit text; not sure, tho.
    I guess I was a little vague there, hehe. Sorry. It's not the rights to the design I'm speaking of, it's the fact that what sounds good in the old amps might not be safe and, thusly, might not get UL certified. I dug up this quote from Mike Eldred of the Fender custom shop:

    "The paper-wound transformers and all the other "old style" manufacturing techniques are (in a nut-shell), not UL approved. So, when you get your boutique amp and bring it home and your kid reaches in the back to retrieve a "Barbie Shoe" she lost, and gets the Bejesus shocked out of her, you get upset and that's about it.

    Now, if it has a "FENDER" logo on it, you call your childhood friend (who is an Attorney now BTW) and he suggests a really cool financial plan for you and your family that begins with filing a multi-million dollar class action lawsuit against....us because of the mental diress and pain and suffering only a 200 + million dollar corporation can soothe.

    That's why we will NEVER do it. "
    Last edited by Riscchip; 07-30-2002 at 07:24 PM.
    --Carson

    http://www.riscchip.com

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    154
    Gotcha, Carson; that makes some sense. Thanks! ;)

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Standin' at the crossroads, shoutin' at the devil.
    Posts
    177
    It makes sense, but I still feel like it's a cop-out. There are plenty of things that they could do to avoid being sued. Oh well, I'm sure it's not up to the builders anyway.

    As for me, I'll be taking chances, lol. :bigal
    The man with magic hands.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    South Shore Lake Ontario
    Posts
    34
    Originally posted by burst_king
    How about the Bronco and LE Champ? Those are/where both finished in tweed.

    My complaint is that Fender's so-called "Amp Custom Shop" doesn't make more point-to-point amps. The demand is HUGE for point-to-point, at least big enough to justify regularly making point-to-point amps anyway.
    Vibro King, Tone Master and Dual Professional are Point to Point on a through plated thick glass board. Nice!
    The Sun don't shine, the Moon don't move the tides to wash me clean..

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Standin' at the crossroads, shoutin' at the devil.
    Posts
    177
    Thanks, Big Al. I though that the Tone Master and Vibro King were p-t-p, but wasn't sure. I didn't know that about the Dual Professional though. :bigal
    The man with magic hands.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    69
    The problem with making PTP boutique or FMIC Custom Shop repros of the Blackface era amps is the cost. The BF amps have a lot more stuff in them (reverb, tremolo, second independent channel) than the tweeds, and therefore would be more costly to make. In this case, the reissues or boutiques would cost more than an original vintage example, so nobody would buy them. I mean seriously, if you can buy an original BFSR in decent shape for $2k, and the reissue costs $3k, which are you going to do? Moreover, FMIC could not make exact repros because of the requirements for UL safety certification.

    The tweed era amps are very simple and basic in construction and circuit, so they can be manufactuered and sold at more reasonable prices.

    The custom shop "Bassbreaker" is a cheapo reissue Bassman chassis (pc boards and all) in a 2x12 cabinet. BFD. It's beyond me whay this is a "custom shop" amp.

    From what I've read, the demand for reissues of the old stuff is basically a small niche market for hardcore guys. The biggest market is for cheap transistor trash amps, cheap tube amps, and gadget-freak amps like the Cyborg Twins. Fender, which is a for-profit corporation, is chasing the big market.

    It would be nice if Fender would "reissue" the tweed Deluxe. I personally would also like to see a RI 64 Vibroverb, but I suspect the market for that would be pretty small, limited to Jazzers and SRV fans.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    154

    '59 Deluxe Tweed? Yeah, Bay-Bee!!!

    Originally posted by Tremo
    It would be nice if Fender would "reissue" the tweed Deluxe. I personally would also like to see a RI 64 Vibroverb, but I suspect the market for that would be pretty small, limited to Jazzers and SRV fans.
    Tremo,
    I dunno, but am willing to bet the house (yours, of course; not mine) that sales from a credible '59 Deluxe Tweed reissue would justify the effort; cost not being too prohibitive, that is. ;)

  17. #17
    Forum Member Henrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    28
    Originally posted by Tremo

    From what I've read, the demand for reissues of the old stuff is basically a small niche market for hardcore guys. The biggest market is for cheap transistor trash amps, cheap tube amps, and gadget-freak amps like the Cyborg Twins. Fender, which is a for-profit corporation, is chasing the big market.
    You're right, that's what I thought. I guess a Tweed reissue won't interest that many people outside of the vintage, boutique and DIY group.

    You had some other good points too, Tremo! :)

  18. #18
    Forum Member professor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Trenton, NJ
    Posts
    62

    Re: '59 Deluxe Tweed? Yeah, Bay-Bee!!!

    Originally posted by Preztone

    I dunno, but am willing to bet the house (yours, of course; not mine) that sales from a credible '59 Deluxe Tweed reissue would justify the effort; cost not being too prohibitive, that is. ;)
    Geez, there's already a slew of Tweed Clone makers out there, in addition to a fair number of available vintage pieces... the market just isn't that stong... that's why, on any given day, you can pick up a Vickie or a Clark for a fraction of their new price...

    Nah, I'm happy the way it is... with smaller companies really paying attention to the details. Fender would simply not be able to compete and retain the attention to detail that a small shop can do... Just MHO...
    Regards, Dave Orban

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    69
    I agree, Dave. Oh, welcome to the forum. How've you been?

  20. #20
    Forum Member Black Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    172

    Re: Re: '59 Deluxe Tweed? Yeah, Bay-Bee!!!

    Originally posted by professor
    that's why, on any given day, you can pick up a Vickie or a Clark for a fraction of their new price...
    I've not seen them for what I'd consider "a fraction of their new price." Where are you looking? Just curious cause I love 'em but have never been able to afford one.
    Jason
    The Bear Guy

  21. #21
    Forum Member Casey4s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    N. Virginia
    Posts
    92

    Re: Re: '59 Deluxe Tweed? Yeah, Bay-Bee!!!

    Originally posted by professor


    Geez, there's already a slew of Tweed Clone makers out there, in addition to a fair number of available vintage pieces... the market just isn't that stong... that's why, on any given day, you can pick up a Vickie or a Clark for a fraction of their new price...

    Nah, I'm happy the way it is... with smaller companies really paying attention to the details. Fender would simply not be able to compete and retain the attention to detail that a small shop can do... Just MHO...
    Good point...the "Cloners" all seem to make exceptional amps from those Tweed circuits maybe it's best to leave things alone.

  22. #22
    Forum Member Casey4s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    N. Virginia
    Posts
    92

    Re: Re: Re: '59 Deluxe Tweed? Yeah, Bay-Bee!!!

    Originally posted by Black Bear


    I've not seen them for what I'd consider "a fraction of their new price." Where are you looking? Just curious cause I love 'em but have never been able to afford one.
    Well you are right that they are not dirt cheap. What I think the other poster was aluding to was that if Fender built it like Clark or Victoria it would wind up costing as much or more.

    There is another option...building your own clone. The 5F1, 5F2, and 5F3 circuits are really pretty simple and a 5F6A Bassman is only a little more involved.

    ...just something to think about....

  23. #23
    Forum Member professor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Trenton, NJ
    Posts
    62
    Originally posted by Tremo
    I agree, Dave. Oh, welcome to the forum. How've you been?
    Doin' OK... just picked up a '53 blonde ES175,...



    ...so I'm pretty stoked (no pun...!) about that...! How's by you?
    Last edited by professor; 08-01-2002 at 02:11 PM.
    Regards, Dave Orban

  24. #24
    Forum Member professor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Trenton, NJ
    Posts
    62

    Re: Re: Re: '59 Deluxe Tweed? Yeah, Bay-Bee!!!

    Originally posted by Black Bear
    I've not seen them for what I'd consider "a fraction of their new price." Where are you looking? Just curious cause I love 'em but have never been able to afford one.
    Jason... maybe it's semantics, but I consider 25-35% off original street prices to be a fraction... Youll find it more with the Clarks than with the Vickies, but they're out there (along with hand-built one-offs and kit clones done by "regular Joes"...)

    let me know what you're lookin' for and I'll keep my eyes peeled...
    Regards, Dave Orban

  25. #25
    Forum Member Black Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    172
    Gotcha...

    Hey, I've got too much guitar GAS right now to worry about another amp just yet, but thanks!
    Jason
    The Bear Guy

  26. #26
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    69
    Originally posted by professor


    Doin' OK... just picked up a '53 blonde ES175, so I'm pretty stoked (no pun...!) about that...! How's by you?
    Argh!!! I love those guitars. P-90s. T-Bone tone. I'm jealous!!!! I'd like to have a P-90 big box Gibby, but they're so pricey.... A friend of mine bought a reissue burst ES-5 with three alnico pole single coils. Man what a sweet axe, it nearly plays itself.

    Me, I'm in the doghouse. My car took a shit on me and the mechanic is having trouble finding out exactly what's wrong. Damn computer controlled engines anyway.... plus dealing with my alzheimer's mother-in-law is really taking a toll on the wife and I.....it's hard. I'm finding myself to be unusually short and cranky lately, it's getting to me. I need a vacation........

  27. #27
    Forum Member professor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Trenton, NJ
    Posts
    62
    Originally posted by Tremo


    Argh!!! I love those guitars. P-90s. T-Bone tone. I'm jealous!!!! I'd like to have a P-90 big box Gibby, but they're so pricey....
    FWIW, I've got a nearly identical one -- albeit a '90 (and a whole lot cheaper)...



    ...For Sale in the Guitars For Sale section...

    http://www.orbanrealty.com/gypsies/175

    ...can't afford to keep 'em both, you know...
    Last edited by professor; 08-01-2002 at 02:14 PM.
    Regards, Dave Orban

  28. #28
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    154

    Where are you buying Clark amps on the cheap, prof?

    Originally posted by professor


    Geez, there's already a slew of Tweed Clone makers out there, in addition to a fair number of available vintage pieces... the market just isn't that stong... that's why, on any given day, you can pick up a Vickie or a Clark for a fraction of their new price...
    Perhaps, but right or wrong, the Fender name would put such an amp at the head of the class, upon issue. Maybe a '57 Deluxe would be a better candidate, given the '59 Bassman already being in production.

    Dunno about Victorias, but I understand where Clark amps are not exactly flying out of SC; not because they aren't well-made...much to the contrary...but because of price. Fact is, if anyone could do it for less, it would be Fender. Moreover, the market for Fender is much larger than her smaller competitors. They're already set up for widest distribution, too. Plus, they got the name recognition thang going on. :2c
    Last edited by Preztone; 08-01-2002 at 03:38 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •