A Tough Decision

[Yardbird Mac]

Howdy:

I'm facing a tough decision with one of the best/well made guitars I've ever owned. I will admit up front that I "waffle" on this almost daily. I'll ask a question first:

Have any of you owned a guitar that was extremely well made (absolutely no flaws in construction), had above average tone (I now... that's subjective), yet no matter what upgrades or "tweaks" you've done, you just couldn't bond with it? I'm facing that dilemma with my G&L COMANCHE. I bought it new in April of 2007. Upon arrival I almost sent it back. I thought I would give it a chance and see if my opinions changed after it "broke in" a little. I've come really close to putting it up for sale several times (something I've not done with either Les Paul or my MIM "03") Strat.

Over the past 3 years I've done some upgrades to the Strat* to make it into a "poor man's" COMANCHE. Well guess which "S" style guitar I go to the most (hint... It isn't the G&L). Although the Strat isn't as loud as the COMANCHE, it seems easier to play (a little more touch sensitive) and I like the tone a little better (it sounds a little more "FENDERish" than the COMANCHE).

*
It has an "07" neck - Rosewood fretboard (larger frets).
Graphtech string trees.
Kinman "Vintage" noiseless pickups.
FENDER locking tuners.
Callaham trem block.
Graphtech string saddles.
Vintage green pearloid pick guard & back cover plate.

[KYChucky]

If you sold it, would you miss it?

If you sold it, what would you replace it with?

I think all this 'bonding' is over rated. My dad once told me, "never love something that can not love you back". The guitar is just a tool, you make the music.

[elicross]

I think the most important question to ask is "If I missed it, could I replace it?"

I sold my Les Paul Custom in college when I needed money (and because, at the time, I was more interested in writing and the school newspaper and my girlfriend than guitar). I missed it almost immediately, but I didn't have the money to buy it back.

I told myself I'd replace it as soon as I graduated and got a good job.. Hell, it had only cost me $635 brand new; surely I'd have that much money to spend in the not-too-distant future. Then I spent my first years out of college doing what lots of people do right after college: living from paycheck to paycheck with no money for much more than food, rent, and bills.

I kinda let the idea slide for years and years. Then, when I got back into guitar in 2006, I found out you can't get a Les Paul Custom these days for less than three grand. So while I may someday find a guitar as nice as the one I sold in college, I'll never have a Les Paul Custom again. 'Cause even if I had three grand to spend on one guitar, I couldn't justify doing it -- not when I just play at home for my own amusement. And I'm not foolish enough to put it on a credit card...and I refuse to buy an Epiphone Les Paul Custom because that feels like capitulating to Gibson and their (in my opinion) gross overpricing.

To make a long story short (yeah, yeah -- too late) that was a guitar I loved, but thought I could replace. And now I think of it with almost as much regret as I have about the girl that got away (also in college -- man, when we're in our 20s, we think we're going to live forever and have a zillion second chances ).

[Don]

Guitars are more than just tools to most of us.

I didn't really bond with my USACG T-Style until I found the right amp for it (my 5E3 clone and later, my Mesa/Boogie Express).

Although the guitar has always played great, when I had just the Vibrolux Reverb and Princeton Reverb I was considering routing the guitar and putting humbuckers in it!

[Yardbird Mac]

Well... There is a little more to the story. It just doesn't feel comfortable in my hands (hence... I feel more like I'm fighting it than playing it), and it does have one issue (that the Strat doesn't have) I forgot to mention .

The pickup rout is a "bathtub" configuration and no matter which pickup or pickup combination I select, I get some unwanted overtones in the form of a "popping" noise, especially if my guitar pick happens to make contact with the P'up cover. It's more noticeable while soloing. I don't hear it so much while playing rhythm. I've thought about stuffing some packing foam in the rout, but I'm afraid it would deaden the whole guitar (yes/no?).

If I sold it would I regret it?... Probably not.

[Gravity Jim]

Gourmets, as a class, will tell you that certain hard-to-obtain foods are wonderful, incredible, spectacular. For example, truffles.

I find truffles disgusting, the same as liver and brains and tripes. I'm eatin' 'em, no matter what anyone says about how good they are supposed to be. I was elated when no less an authority than Sarah Moulton, executive chef for Gourmet magazine, said on television that she, too, finds truffles disgusting.

My point is... it doesn't matter how good the specs say it is. If you don't like, it's not.

[NeoFauve]

To make a long story short (yeah, yeah -- too late) that was a guitar I loved, but thought I could replace. And now I think of it with almost as much regret as I have about the girl that got away (also in college -- man, when we're in our 20s, we think we're going to live forever and have a zillion second chances ).

Sounds like the tale of my MIJ 50's Tele... and Susan, or Carolyn, or Caroline.


YbMac- I say, sell, if you really won't miss it.

Judging by the mods you list, it seems you really want more of a straight up Strat.

Is the Commanche in question a US model with the Z p'ups?
I had a big crush on one that hung in Select Guitars for a couple of years. It was sort of a Butterscotch color, white guard/black p'up covers, soooper smooth vibrato and it sounded like a fatter, more hi-fi, quiet Strat.
It reminded me of a sleeker version of my Schecter.

[phantomman]

Well... There is a little more to the story. It just doesn't feel comfortable in my hands (hence... I feel more like I'm fighting it than playing it), and it does have one issue (that the Strat doesn't have) I forgot to mention .

The pickup rout is a "bathtub" configuration and no matter which pickup or pickup combination I select, I get some unwanted overtones in the form of a "popping" noise, especially if my guitar pick happens to make contact with the P'up cover. It's more noticeable while soloing. I don't hear it so much while playing rhythm. I've thought about stuffing some packing foam in the rout, but I'm afraid it would deaden the whole guitar (yes/no?).

If I sold it would I regret it?... Probably not.

It's what we here euphemistically call a "tone turd".

DUMP IT!

A year from now you won't even remember what color it was.

[melody]

Flip it don't look back... Never played a G&L I liked enough to buy.

[elicross]

Gourmets, as a class, will tell you that certain hard-to-obtain foods are wonderful, incredible, spectacular. For example, truffles.

I find truffles disgusting, the same as liver and brains and tripes. I'm eatin' 'em, no matter what anyone says about how good they are supposed to be. I was elated when no less an authority than Sarah Moulton, executive chef for Gourmet magazine, said on television that she, too, finds truffles disgusting.

My point is... it doesn't matter how good the specs say it is. If you don't like, it's not.

Post o' the week!

Based on your second post, sounds like you won't miss it, Mac. That makes any "could I replace it?" questions moot.

The good thing about owning a guitar you don't like, even though "conventional wisdom" says you should, is that you shouldn't have trouble finding somebody else who wants it -- and getting a decent price for it.

[phantomman]

Post o' the week!

+1!

Likewise, I can't stand broccoli......an otherwise total waste of perfectly arable farmland.

[Cogs]

But I love brocolli. So Roger can find a buyer for his & it's all good, as the kids say.
Sell it. Somebody else will love it. It's the 21st century, for cryin out loud. There are a zillion guitars out there so you should be able to find one that looks good, sounds good, & feels good.

[chuckocaster]

if you aren't bonding with it, sell it and find something you like better. i'm in that process right now. sure it's a good guitar, it's just not a guitar for you. can't make any quibbles about that.

[jeru]

You asked, and The Forum Has Spoken. Just Do It.

Get a fair price for it and use the proceeds for something that will bring you some enjoyment.

Cheers.

[Yardbird Mac]

OK... while I was gone from the forum I did some work on the COMANCHE and I think I might have it sorted out. I removed the strings and as I removed each string I set the individual bridge saddles to G&L factory specs. I removed the pick guard, then reseated it (retightened the screws etc.). Next I restrung it with D'Adarrio 10- 46 gauge strings (this is what they ship the guitars with now). Then, I adjusted the truss rod.

When I restrung it I didn't use ANY lubricant on the nut (it has a Graphtech nut). I tuned it up and hit the whammy bar a few times. That didn't knock it out of tune that much. After playing a few songs, it seems to be real stable. The only non factory spec thing I did was set the pickups pretty much the way I have them set up on my Strat*. The volume across the strings is more uniform now. Chords "ring like a bell" and there are no dead spots when I solo.

This is a strange guitar that takes a lot of "tweaking" to get it "dialed in". I'm starting to like this new setup . I can make it sound close to a Strat, but if I play with the volume and tone a little, I can make it sound like an ES-335.

The key here was taking the time to set it up properly. Except for the pickup hight, I think G&L got it right with the rest of the setup recommendations. I'm going to play this guitar a lot over the next month and see how it turns out.

'Sorry guys for being such a

*These pickups are high output ceramic and when I solo, I have to be careful that I don't inadvertently hit the pickup cover with my pick (I sort of have to re-train myself in that respect).

[NeoFauve]

Is the Commanche in question a US model with the Z p'ups?

+1

Inquiring minds are curious.

[Yardbird Mac]

Well... I made one more adjustment to the guitar. I went from D'Addario 10 - 46 down to Ernie Ball 09 - 42, and reset the intonation. As with my Strat, it just seems to like 09s rather than 10s (I don't have strong hands). It feels much better, and I like what I'm hearing. but I'm still going to play only this guitar for the next month and see if I still like the new setup. If not, out she goes!

[chuckocaster]

sometimes you have to mix it up on the string gauges. i personally play heavier strings on my fender types than i do on my gibby types. i know that's bassakwards, but the "sound" is there, so who knows right?

[Yardbird Mac]

I know about the string thing... Back in the 1970's I saw Tommy Bolin several times and read articles about him. I thought his live tone was awesome. It turns out, he was using Ernie Ball Extra Super Slinkies (08s)!

I use 10 - 46 on my Les Pauls. For me anyway, that seems to be THE gauge on those guitars. With "S" style guitars, I find myself "pounding" on the strings. This defeats any dynamics for me. "Hammer ons" and "pull offs" don't come naturally if I use 10s. To me, bigger strings have more volume and "punch", but it's almost too much of a good thing. As I said earlier, I would rather play the guitar than fight it.

I get a little string buzz with "09s", but I don't hear it through the amp (I guess that's kind of normal for "S" style guitars).

[concert410]

Good luck Dude. I put 009's on a guitar and they can't wait to break. I put 10's on and I can play for months with no problems. I guess as they say "your mileage may vary"....

[Don]

I put .009s on everything now after using .010s for many years.

A few things that I notice- they don't seem to last as long (same brand) and I play my Les Paul out of tune. I need to lighten up!

Sometimes the small things can make or break a guitar. For instance, I was never satisfied with my Strat since replacing the neck with a huge USACG boat neck. It felt great but sounded lifeless. It turned out that I was running the truss rod too loose in order to get the amount of neck relief that I wanted. I tightened the truss rod and the guitar came to life! There's a bit less relief than I like but not so little that there's a problem. I can't put the guitar down now!

[Yardbird Mac]

I put .009s on everything now after using .010s for many years.

A few things that I notice- they don't seem to last as long (same brand) and I play my Les Paul out of tune. I need to lighten up!

Sometimes the small things can make or break a guitar. For instance, I was never satisfied with my Strat since replacing the neck with a huge USACG boat neck. It felt great but sounded lifeless. It turned out that I was running the truss rod too loose in order to get the amount of neck relief that I wanted. I tightened the truss rod and the guitar came to life! There's a bit less relief than I like but not so little that there's a problem. I can't put the guitar down now!

Aaaahhh yes... the truss rod. I, too, was running it a little too loose. I've tightened it just enough thaI can tell that its nut has some "purchase" on the threads. It seems a little more resonant and stable.

[Yardbird Mac]

Good luck Dude. I put 009's on a guitar and they can't wait to break. I put 10's on and I can play for months with no problems. I guess as they say "your mileage may vary"....

Hey man... I STILL don't have my voice back. Let's give it a shot on Monday.

[DanD]

Been there several times with high $$$ guitars I thought I should bond with.

A '73 Tele Deluxe was the first, then a string of Gibsons. Most recenlty a late 80s ASAT, a mid 80s Skyhawk (with the pointy headstock) a '57 LP, and a 339.

I'm sure someone loves or has loved those guitars by now, they just weren't for me.

Currently I've got a lowly Gibson BFG that I modded and it's the only Gibson I need. It's that good.

I just finished resurrecting a '77 Strat and I really prefer any one of several other Strats I own over it. It'll prolly be hittin' the block shortly.

I've had enough high dollar guitars to know that the cost of the axe bears no relation to its desirability.

It took me a long time to get past the "value" factor and just listen to what my hands and ears were tellin' me.

Anymore if I don't bond with it in a few weeks it's on it's way out the door.

Value to me now has more to do with a guitar's usefulness as a tool irregardless of it's worth on the open market.

When I got past the value dilemma I found many guitars that were relatively cheap that just work for me.

There was a time, not too long ago, I wouldn't have considered the low end of the market.

I had the mentality that if it wasn't American I wouldn't even look at it. Figured it can't be no good if'n it ain't got a high dollar tag and the Made in the USA stamp.

I'm so glad I'm past that now. I'm finally finding all those guitars I was missing out on.

[Offshore Angler]

Cool thread. Moral of the story: a good setup will make or break and instrument. G&L guitars are in my experience - consistently outstanding (the US models) being the ultimate expression of Leo's vision for the guitar and more of a custom shop instrument than "how cheap can we build them?" pieces like modern Fenders have become.

The whole bonding thing amuses me. At one time I had that mindset, but honestly - lately I don't. Hand me any guitar and I'll play it and sound like me. In fact, one of the most fun things for me musically is to play a strange instrument and find its uniqueness and apply it musically. I guess I'm no longer looking for the sound in my head but rather the sound the song needs. If it feel different in my hands, that's a GOOD thing. When recording and nothing seems to come out right, I'll pick a different guitar at random and listen to in the mix. Often, that leads to better results than my trusty old Esquire or white Strat.

The "un-bonded" feel and not having that comfortable familiarity often puts me in better place as a player.

I play piano and it's the same deal. Anywhere you go, there is a different piano and you get the fun of feeling it out and hearing things almost for the first time. It's amazing how different the Eb - Dm change on the intro to Crazy can sound so good and so different on every piano. Makes life more interesting. Same holds true with guitars.