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Thread: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

  1. #1
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    Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    I'm an intermediate player at best. I have been picking around with blues and rock for about 18 moths. I run 'Garage Band' drum loops through the stereo and improvise along learning stuff I find on-line. Mostly Arlon Roth at Gibson.com. I add a little something every week and slowly I am getting better. But I can feel myself getting sort of stuck, hitting a wall sort of, feels like I'm playing the same stuff all the time. I have 2 kids, job, house, wife.. and running off to lessons isn't something I can do right now. I recently recorded myself for the first time and was shocked at how good I sounded, and shocked at how bad I sounded.

    Any advise on how I can get to the next layer of learning how to play this thing?


    P e a c e
    KYC

  2. #2
    Forum Member Mesotech's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    One of the best ways to improve is to put yourself in a completely foreign environment. Try playing styles of music that you wouldn't normally play. Being like a fish out of water forces you to be creative and think on your feet. You'll be surprised at how well and how poorly you'll do. Get yourself comfortable in those situations and when you do go back to the type of music you enjoy most, you'll notice a vast improvement.
    POO DAT!!!

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Jam with friends.

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    Forum Member DravenX's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    I have struggled with this myself. Sometimes I need to force a reconnection of emotion to my playing as I can get pretty clinical about it at times and that's when it gets stale. The thing I discovered that helps me out of it is to find the muse. That piece of music that I "have" to listen to every time I'm in the car, that transcendent jam with a few buds, the perfect bit of scenery that inspires or reading a story that really hits me emotionally. If all else fails I take an acoustic to a beautiful place of solitude and play.

    Not typical but it works for me
    Hell is full of musical amateurs: music is the brandy of the damned.
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    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    I watch lessons on youtube when I feel I am getting too repetitious.

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    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Do entire songs that you like, especially including singing the melodies - even if you are an awful singer, stand up and do it in private when you practice. Songs have structure and are built on melodies. Do the whole song, beginning, end, middle. Practice it as if you are performing it for an audience. 'Performing' whole songs will teach you how the sell the total package and make you are a more complete musician in the process... ;-)

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    Forum Member Cygnus X1's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    I just take it for granted I stink.
    It's entirely my fault-I don't spend the required hours of
    playing to bother to get it right.

    I still have fun though.

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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Try something hard.

    Not to be trite, but the reason I get in a rut is I'm doing the stuff that's easy over & over.

    A way out of the box can be as easy as learning a single new lick, but most likely one that is difficult to play and using a foreign sound. This is most often found for me in jazz-playing over some changes that I can't play over using my current knowledge.

    learning that single lick & playing it over & over in different positions will ingrain it and eventually you see the connections it has to the scale, the chords, and other possibilities.

    Bottom line is, you might not be able to create it yourself, but you need to take some new knowledge in & incorporate it.

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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Sometimes I go back to beginners' lessons in books, online, etc. I've played for 20 years, but beginning theory is so fundamental that it can lead to virtually an entire new world of playing.

    For example, I recently read about the CAGED system. I intuitively knew it to some extent just from playing a lot, but had never looked at it mapped out on paper before, and it has definitely opened my eyes.

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    Forum Member the_best_of_fools's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Get yourself a Jamvox.

    http://www.voxamps.com/us/jamvox/

    tbof

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    Forum Member FrankJohnson's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    I have relatives in Grayson County......it is tough every time I go visist - no place to go hear any music, or find like minded people. at least in you area, there are a few clubs to go meet some people to play with.
    Kenny Belmont
    >:^{I)>

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    Forum Member clayville's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    The JamZone -- here when it was more active, but mostly "across the hall" at the Les Paul Forum where new backing tracks arrive at a 2 or 3 per week rate -- saved my guitar-playing life.

    Online jamming is, for me, a challenging and very rewarding way to fit playing into my life these days with several superlative benefits:
    1) Any time of day or night that I can squeeze in an hour, there it is. To me, that flexibility is fabulous -- no scheduling, no travel, no lugging things around, no (well, not many) dirty looks from the Mrs.
    2) There's a very wide range of styles (in addition to the core blues and rock) available at any given time -- many of which (funk, jazz for instance) were once not high on my short list of talents, but now are. I'm a much better guitarist than I was, practically fearless in tackling new challenges, confident and comfortable in areas that were once huge holes in my abilities as a result of the JamZone.
    3) You'll never find a more supportive, welcoming, or inspiring group of players anywhere on the interweb -- I know, because I've kicked the tires at other sites all over the world for more than five years. These guys have the best "ears" on the planet and always go out of their way to point out the great phrase, the inventive melodic flair, the perfect tone, the burst of creativity... the sometimes brief moments of bliss in what may otherwise be (to you) a disappointing performance, and offer up outstanding encouragement that helps you grow and learn as a player. They're also darn good at gently saying "you might want to try this, adjust that next time" instead of whatever you did. As a result of participating, my own ears have been trained to hear and notice all those things in all the music I encounter.
    4) It's much more like a Still Life Art Class than a cutting contest -- with everyone bringing their individual tools and talents to the table and sharing the results. No one cares what tools those are (or how many coils your pickups have) -- but it's no small thing that I can do a whole lot more now with the tools that I have. As one of the denizens put it once (refin) -- the JamZoners are like mountain climbers, but it isn't a race to the "top". The top is beyond everyone's reach no matter how talented. But whether you're nearer the summit in your abilities or just hitting the trail, all the participants recognize the Brotherhood of Fellow Climbers and support each other in their climb.

    I could wax poetic for another hour on what it's done for me... but if you're already jamming along in Garageband, then you're practically there: just drag a backing track into GB and hit "record". Experiment, work on your sound and mix, patch a phrase if need be. Export the track to an off-site host like Soundclick and join a JamZone thread with a link. Ask for help if you need it -- the feedback will come freely. Frankly, I'd recommend doing it at the LPF since that jamming community is far more active that the one here at the TFF. You won't be sorry. And you won't be waiting on the drummer.

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    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    A lot people play guitar just to play blues and rock leads. They tune to Eb and play SRV licks in the basement. Go look at youtube if you think I am exaggerating.

    If you truly want to be a better guitarist, then branch out. For example, a little bit of classical guitar never hurt anyone. It will teach you to use your fingers much more effectively. But you don't need to go so highbrow. Ragtime blues will have the same effect as will bossa nova and other Latin American styles. I am not saying you have to play these styles, I am just telling you to change direction. Another good strategy for learning is to go through a bunch of so-called standards, i.e., popular Tin Pan Alley songs from the 30-50s which will stretch your knowledge of chords.

    If you just sit in the basement banging away at lead licks, you are going to go nowhere. If you truly only want to do blues and rock, then you need to play in a band to improve and, if possible, to play in public. I am dead serious about that. Playing with others in front of others is what it is all about.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

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    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Sometimes it is just time to take a little break and do a lot of listening.

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    Forum Member the_best_of_fools's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Quote Originally Posted by thegeezer View Post
    Sometimes it is just time to take a little break and do a lot of listening.

    + 1. That's very good advice. When ever I feel I've lost my inspiration, I just stop playing for a few days - weeks. It just feels right when I grab the guitar back in my hands...

    tbof

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    I'll go along with clay, use the JamZone here and over at the LPF. You'll go from just riffing to composing and have a ton of fun. You'll also get a whole bunch better real quickly just by recording and listening to what you played. It's fun, it's safe, and the guys are nothing but respectful and supportive. Try it, you'll like it. I find it really fun to step outside my comfort zone and try something new I would have never done with the band.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member sting7777's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Playing a different guitar can help too. I pick up my 12 string sometimes and start playing all sorts of weird stuff that I never would on my strat. Same with bass, archtop etc. Different feel and sound and results.



    "Oh, Mister D.J.,
    I keep wondering why you don't play much blues anymore
    I don't know what you got against me
    Whatever it is, I sure would like to know"

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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    WOW thanks all. These are all good suggestions and I have been doing some of them already. Plus I already sort of knew what to do...Im a visual artist by trade. There are many similarities between my visual art and my musical quest. I think part of my problem here is the drive to sit down and LEARN new stuff. Im always so torn between spending my too short time enjoying what I already know and approaching the struggle to learn new material.. I guess I have reached one of many tipping points here = need new input.

    When things are not working out on the potters wheel I blind fold myself and make stuff blind. What would be the guitar equivalent of that? Record deaf?


    P e a c e
    KYC

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    Forum Member Custom 5's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Quote Originally Posted by KYChucky View Post
    When things are not working out on the potters wheel I blind fold myself and make stuff blind. What would be the guitar equivalent of that? Record deaf?
    same thing applies. blindfold yourself and play blind. stopping looking and start listening. Gris made an excellent point about playing chords and learning songs completely from brginning to end. if you're just going to put on backing tracks and riff out, you're wasting your time.

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    That's why we like the Jamzone. Instead of just playing riffs or copping licks, you'll get moved into a space where you need to think compositionally, which - I assume - is akin to creating art.

    For example - when I record I'll often hear an original phrase in my head and then have to teach myself how to play it.

    And - even though I admit I'm biased, nothing taught me more about guitar playing than learning classic Surf tunes. They force you to think melodically and be extremely accurate. And, if you miss a note, you must learn to find your place and fall back into the melody ASAP. They are not based on the "standard" scales and fretboard patterns guitar players cling too. Once I got my arms around a completely different (and extremely fun!) style I was able to go back to blues, rock, and jazz and apply what I learned. Made me a better player. Oh, and it will guaranteed eliminate the crutch of overusing effects.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member NMCA_Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Gris View Post
    Do entire songs that you like, especially including singing the melodies - even if you are an awful singer, stand up and do it in private when you practice. Songs have structure and are built on melodies. Do the whole song, beginning, end, middle. Practice it as if you are performing it for an audience. 'Performing' whole songs will teach you how the sell the total package and make you are a more complete musician in the process... ;-)
    I have just recently started trying to sing again as I play after having died a terrible death on stage at a local jam session. (They stuck the mic in front of me and said, "Sing, dammit.") So, I have started singing while practicing, but I have noticed something. Although I know the lyrics and the melody quite well, some songs are much easier to sing along with than others. A buddy of mine (a drummer) said he noticed the same thing and said it is because singing sometimes requires different breathing patterns than playing. I feel he may be correct, but how do you train yourself to breathe differently?



    Ron
    "What we need are more people who specialize in the impossible "- Theodore Roethke

  22. #22
    Forum Member clayville's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Though there's much to be said for really woodshedding a new song or style until you've mastered them... to me (with a situation somewhat akin to the o.p.) that's too close to "work" to motivate me in my "playing" most of the time.

    One other aspect of the JamZone possibility that OA touches on -- these backing tracks are rarely a known song, so it's virgin territory with huge opportunity for creativity. There's no 'right answer' or radio melody to replicate, which leads to an empowering freedom. The best of them (and by that I mean "most versatile") can be taken in an astounding variety of directions and they definitely seem to help the players become "more of who they are", to refine and develop their own individual style.

    There's a recent thread running across the hall at the LPF where one BT has been funked up, rocked out, bluesed, surfed, heavy metaled, jazzed and more depending on the response of the player -- have a listen to the variety, if you get a chance. It all works in it's own way.
    http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=158386

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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Inspired by you all - I spent some time last night getting: guitar > POD > GarageBand figured out. Made a quick 5 track thing about being a tire. SO much fun - I'm about to pee in my pants to get home and record some more stuff -

    I have intensionally not made recordings as it represented something left over, a residual of the music making process. I noticed early in my adventure into guitar (only a year ago) that having nothing left once the playing is over is one of the many things I like about making music. But as you all already know, listening to your recording is a very good way to understand what is going on with the structure/quality of what you are attempting to play. As a beginner I'm focused on the technical side of playing so 'listening' sometimes takes a back seat getting my fingers to do what I want them to.

    Thanks
    KYC

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    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Listening is THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL of a muscian, period. If you can't listen you can't contribute in a meaningful way.

    Seriously, you need to listen.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Quote Originally Posted by KYChucky View Post

    When things are not working out on the potters wheel I blind fold myself and make stuff blind. What would be the guitar equivalent of that? Record deaf?


    P e a c e
    KYC
    one thing that is similar to that might be trying a new tuning. A friend showed me open G and it was actually very fun to mess with. I never thought I'd try it, but I'm so glad he re-tuned my guitar & I had no choice

  26. #26
    Forum Member pauln's Avatar
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    Re: Tired of Listening to Myself- Help

    Hmm, 18 months is about the time that a lot of guitarists begin to sense that they don't know what is next. After ramping up the callouse curve, the learning curve, the basic chords, and some lead... the pace tends to slow as one looks for the next direction. You don't reveal much detail about how you play, but at 18 months I would recommend two things to think about considering: use all four fingers and play three notes per string for lead.

    If you don't already play with all four left hand fingers, start doing it now. This in itself will keep you occupied for a while and pay off big later on. If your lead playing is pentatonic, notice that all the usual patterns employ two notes per string. Try finding a third note for each string that works. Three notes per strings will force you to learn the complete scales of seven notes instead of five. Then you will notice that the third note changes for some chords even when the pent pattern stays the same. This is the begining of really learning to solo. Three notes per string will also gainfully employ all four fingers, if you aren't already doing that.
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