Callaham "Cryogenic" Fralin Vintage Output pickups

[jerryjg]

Anyone have any opinion on these?
Callaham Claims overwound pickups for Strat are Thin Sounding and Muddy , so he can Fix that by "cryogenically" treating a Vintage stock output Fralin. He sells them on his website.

[ziess]

As far as I'm aware most tonal problems can be fixed by freezing your guitar parts. For sure. I'm well into it.

[Kap'n]

Albert Collins was into the whole cryogenics thing on his guitar.

Walt Disney, if he played guitar, would be too, I'm sure.

[jerryjg]

I should say I meant overwound *Strat style bridge pickups- those typically overwound to around 10 to 11K , if that makes any difference. I'm interested cause I've got a couple of overwound pickups wound by a custom winder( Bo Paul).
Apprently these type of overwound Strat pickups are hugley popular and widely used, so...

[ziess]

Thin sounding and muddy?

[jerryjg]

Thin sounding and muddy?

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...1KS4zlVSnePmyQ

[ziess]

Hmm, doesn't work so well without the pic.
Try this one;

[majwild1]

I've read about these pups but never thought anything about them, if you want to know anything about pups you can call lindy himself he will be glad to talk to you about his pups and anything he knows about this treatment. 804-358-2699

[jerryjg]

Hmm, doesn't work so well without the pic.
Try this one;

..but..but..Quote-"Every major NASCAR team treats their engine components and parts of their electrical system for added horsepower." -END QUOTE>
Don't you want a high performance, ugh..guitar?

[ziess]

Ha ha, yup. Horsepower is where it's at.

[phantomman]

Albert Collins was into the whole cryogenics thing on his guitar.

Walt Disney, if he played guitar, would be too, I'm sure.

So's Ted Williams......

(his haid, anyways).

[jerryjg]

..but to be honest I sense an animosity..not towards me of course, but towards the idea of the Cryogenic pickups. Maybe Callaham went OTT in his description of nascar raceing as somehow relating to guitar pickups..I can't say..BUT, I think we all are a little apprehensive in this day and age with all these gimmicks and waht not, as to the the genuine value of a product .That coupled with a displeasure both for spending money ,especially now , and also a genuine desire to want to believe we have reached the climax of all our exhaustive and expensice guitar endeavors.
What I would caution everyone is to remeber that tone is an absolute, and that the Vintage Fender sound, and granted, that is the tone most universally sought on this forum, is only one parameter of true tone.

Many say that the Vintage Fender sound ( not so many the vintage Fender playability) is the measuring stick for guitar tone. I agree, however I also recognize the quality of modern guitar tone, and am truly interested in stuff like Titanuim , Billet aluminum, Cryogenics, and other high tech hardware and materials, includeing the organic exotic woods.
I believe there is a modern tone and playability not so much "better" than vintage vintage, but "beyond" vintage . Some of this hi-tech tone and functionality of modern pickups, frets, tuners, bridges, radii , and electronics, wiring and wood possiblities is truly great for tone and playability.

[phantomman]

Ha ha, yup. Horsepower is where it's at.

Ah yes, weed-hoppah......but what do they all sound like out of phase???

[Gris]

Personally, I think PUs is one area where there are many folks are making them at least as good if not BETTER than in the old days. However, I also think the freezing thing seems majorly suspect - it was never necessary before so why is it now...

[phantomman]

We didn't know we needed it before now.

[Kap'n]

That's right. Mr. Callaham can't even listen to any electric music anymore, because none of it was recorded with cryogenic pickups.

Gimmie a freakin' break. Who knows, maybe they sound a bit better with the treatment, even if I doubt it. But to say that every guitar made in the past sixty years sounds like ass because it wasn't cryo treated?

People who talk like that set off the Robinson Robot in my head.

[NeoFauve]

What I would caution everyone is to remeber that tone is an absolute, and that the Vintage Fender sound, and granted, that is the tone most universally sought on this forum, is only one parameter of true tone.

Many say that the Vintage Fender sound ( not so many the vintage Fender playability) is the measuring stick for guitar tone. I agree, however ...

If that actually is your measuring stick and you think there's something that can be called "true tone," then you might be susceptible this kind of marketing.
If reading something like that Callaham copy causes you to suddenly question whether you sound right, you're probably even more so.

Cryogenic hocus pocus might work to some extent, so might a checked or ThinSkin™ finish, so might John the Conqueror Root, or the right Fedora.

But so might p'up hight adjustment & listening, adjusting vol/tone on the guitar & listening, and adjusting the vol/tone on the amp & listening.
The measuring stick should be to sound good in whatever situation you play in. Relax and be confident that you're in charge of the guitar.

[chuckocaster]

keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel.

my 2 cents: if the pickups sound better with the treatment, then why doesn't lindy already do that before he ships? he is a master at pups.

[majwild1]

I was thinking the same thing chuck, I just didn't want to say anything, callaham does make some good products I didn't want to rain on anyone parade, and lindy will tell what works and what doesn't whether it's his product or not very nice guy!!!!

[chuckocaster]

i just call it like i see it. callaham makes real nice hardware and whatnot, and lindy makes some amazing pups. but for me personally, there are times when people shroud stuff in mojo and mystery to sell a product. this is not a dig on callaham at all. from my experience though, none of this stuff is rocket science, and sometimes marketing is overblown. i turn down plenty of work from people who get sold (or told by some ding dong) on hype about a certain product. i'd rather educate someone on why something works than blow smoke up their ass.

[jerryjg]

..and while your at it, I suggest all of you get rid of your tone stealing bridge /blocks and get an aluminum billet bridge;

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110356455288&ssPageNam e=ADME:B:WNARL:US:1123[/
QUOTE_"The Mooretone Tremolo Bridge, is a single piece Bridge, precision milled from a solid billet of secret Alloys--ultra hard, with un-paralleled sustainal and grounding improvements!!
Here are just a few industry material comparisons............................Titanium, is heavy and can create secondary tonal nuances that come through an amplifier as "Brittle" or "Sharp" and can promote odd Harmonic over-tones! Did we mention it's heavy?? Speaking of weight...............ours weighs in at or near 6-ounces.......................just the Titanium Block alone is at or near 15-ounces--almost 3x our entire Bridge's weight!! Titanium is ultra hard......................that's for sure! But, its tensile strength of 90,000 or so psi versus ours at 72,000, means nothing, as your guitar's body woods will fail long before either material ever does--unless you are using your Tremolo Bridge as a Jack Hammer!! The fact is................NASA, Boeing, Formula 1 Race Cars and Ferrari, all use forms of our Alloy for the crucial structural needs of their products............................so you think our Bridge can't handle your Hendrix-like Tremolo dives.................."_END QUOTE.

More Raceing analogys.

[chuckocaster]

fast cars and geetars, that is rock and roll to me.

[NeoFauve]

I don't think Mr. Mooretone's bridge is the only thing that has sust-ainal traits.

[redb]

Cryogenic treatment does in fact affect the grain of metal.

SOG knives use cryogenically treated aus 8 blades, it make the metal slightly less shitty. Could this process make the pickups better? Maybe. But I seriously doubt that cryogenically treating pickups will make them sound better.

[Sage]

That's right. Mr. Callaham can't even listen to any electric music anymore, because none of it was recorded with cryogenic pickups.

That's right, kick that straw man's ass, Kap'n!

[Kap'n]

That's right, kick that straw man's ass, Kap'n!

Cryogenically treating our pickups has made such a difference that now I cannot listen to untreated pickups without it bothering me.

http://www.callahamguitars.com/cryo_pu.htm

[Offshore Angler]

The whole cryogenic deal is mostly horse-hockey. I feel fairly well qulaified to speak about it. Having designed and built spacecraft that are intended to operate in near absolute-zero enviorments for a long time we did experiments out the ying-yang. Some metals will experience small non-linearities in thermal conduction at low temperatures, some will even become superconductors. But once the temperature is raised back to room temperature those properties will change back to "normal"

Cryogenics is used with steel to remove inclusions and other grain abnormalities - it is done to create stronger parts, not to alter their conductivity.

What I would expect with a cryogenically treated pickup is that the failure rate of the comppleted part would be much greater than an untreated part. The wire is coated with enamel or urethane. Since either of these materials has a different coefficient of linear expansion than copper allows we would expect the coating to be compromised as it cracks due to the thermal stresses. That's what happens in space.

[Sage]

Cryogenically treating our pickups has made such a difference that now I cannot listen to untreated pickups without it bothering me.

Ouch, that's what I get for skimming and shooting my mouth off... You're right, that's just plain crackers.

[refin]

So..............I guess all Eskimos have better sounding strats and teles than we do?

[Iowegan]

Yup, that's why they were waiting for Quinn the Eskimo to get there.

[Erock_Germany]

It is all horse hockey - I have a set of Callaham/Fralins in one guitar and a set of standard Fralins in the other - both vintage hots with a RWRP in the middle and a base plate on the bridge PU and I actually swaped them between the same guitar and guess what folks............

I think the ones that were UNTREATED sounded better. My says I am deaf but I think that is another issue...........

Now I have bought from Callaham on many occasions and will do so again......I think his success is going a bit to his head. This thing of not listening to non cryo is a huge hype sales job he is doing in a highly competitive market - he needs a good marketing consultancy that teaches him his customers are actually smart and that statements that insult their intelligence may be negative marketing - this thread is case in point - we are 100% of his target market and we are taking the piss out of him in a major way.....

[Kap'n]

Well, some folks who sell high end play the mojo game because their target audience expects that as is willing to pay more.

I notice I haven't heard much from Dave Funk and his 'linear crystal wire' much anymore. Not that I think Dave's a hack - far from it. I think he just bought into his own mojo too much at the time.

[ES350]

The cryogenic hoodoo was much vaunted in the highend audio world for awhile...it spills over to the MI market on occasion.

[New Orleans Poser]

I don't know if it works for pickups, but it sure helped David Duchovny in Zoolander.

"I'm a hand model, mama. A finger jockey. We think differently than the face and body boys... we're a different breed."

[New Orleans Poser]

Matter of fact, I gotta make that quote my tag line. :)

[kaicho8888]

Man...froozen pickups!

I went to the Callaham site... it's all marketing mumbo jumbo...where's the output characteristic specifications. I think it's about time we get a more measuable facts than "sounds better". Lots of hifi equipment specify output characteristics; why can't PU manufacturer's do so?... probably because the juju mojo is not there?...back to the fingers.

[KYChucky]

I had my eye on these just this morning... almost went for it. His blocks and trems get smiles all around. But you cant find much about the cryo pick ups.

[Cygnus X1]

...Wonder why.

Nice necro-thread.
I had fun re-reading it.

[Gold Strat]

No matter how you look at it, pick ups and tone wil never be realy understood specs wise, the old Fender pickups sound so good because the are old and when they are too old they break down on us and die, life sucks!! Freezing them would do no harm and wil not make them sound better, for the best, maybe they sound different? I think that the ones untreated sound better and are cheaper as well.

[KYChucky]

Funny, for the price of a 12 pack.... It would make the guitar at least $15 MORE FUN TO PLAY with the cryo pick ups. And one could start this conversation when ever the mood strikes.

But the down side to this all is now I have reservations about the tremolo bridge....hummm.