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Thread: Who Still Plays LOUD?

  1. #1
    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I have a hard time relating musically to lots of folks, including other pickers because I still play relatively loud with my band (and buddies when just jamming). Sometimes it occurs to me that my amp tone discussions with some people is like talking 'apples and oranges,' because they don't play at anywhere near the volume I do. To me playing electric guitar is an experience that has to be felt, if you understand what I'm saying.

    So, my question is am I a dinosaur? How many other folks (gigging and non-gigging) around here still play loud most of the time? By loud I don't mean super loud, just maybe 30-50 guitar tube watts loud.

  2. #2
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Many consider me loud, though most of that is my reputation.

    I have been much quieter over the last few years. I was regularly diming all of my small combos 18 and 22 watts. Now I rarely get over 6 with my DR.

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    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    6 on a stock 6V6 DR would be medium-quiet in my world. 6 on a 6L6 DR w SS recto would be approaching my zone.

    I just can't get the gig tone I want from an amp with iron that small. And then once the iron increases, the sweet spot does too, LOL!

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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I play amps at volumes close to full on.

    Over the last few years I've tried to get amps that let me fit the amp to the gig. Small room, small amp cranked., etc...

    I don't use pedals any more, so the cranked amp is essential.

    - HR

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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    We almost always have someone complain that we are too loud.....so we turn it up.

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    Forum Member Cygnus X1's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I love loud tone.
    But I don't play loud.

    I've dedicated my tube amp building to trying to get that tone without all the volume.

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    Forum Member frank thomson's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    what?!?
    did you say something??!!??
    yea, it is a big crowd!
    Imanidiot.

  8. #8
    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    "I just got a new watch"

    "yeah? What kind is it?"

    "about 10:30"

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    Forum Member Fripperton's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    To hear others tell it I am the loudest guitarist in the world and I use a small set up.


    VM



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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Call me a "T-Rex" then......

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  11. #11
    Forum Member Mesotech's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Nah, I don't play loud unless it's outdoors or a really big stage. I get to bust out my 100 watt Marshall tomorrow night because we're playing in a really large room at a casino (1000+ capacity). Otherwise 5-15 watts is just too loud.
    POO DAT!!!

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    Forum Member 58reissue's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Depends on the venue? This one I used a 100 super lead full stack and a JTM45 w/ a 2X12.



    This gig was outside so I used 2 JTM45 half stacks on 6 and was told I could be heard 3 blocks away?

    Oh the tone

  13. #13
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gris View Post
    ...To me playing electric guitar is an experience that has to be felt, if you understand what I'm saying....
    By loud I don't mean super loud, just maybe 30-50 guitar tube watts loud.
    I couldn't agree more, Gris. Generations of players have grown up with overdrive pedals and master volumes which, for the most part, were meant to imitate the sound of an amp being pushed a little (or a lot). This is quite a different thing, although many of these same players developed a very light and fast touch because of this.

    It IS a physical experience to play an amp loud and it is not just loudness. When the air around you is hot because you are louder, you play differently. You touch the guitar differently when it is always on the edge of feedback and you learn how to work with that feedback to make notes sing a little. Yes, you can get a very similar sound with pedals, but the touch is quite different - the compression, everything.

    I also agree that you don't need to go over 50 watts to get that (and 50 watts is PLENTY loud). I have a 40 watt Traynor YCV40 with a gain and a clean channel and I like it on the clean channel at about 6. The overdrive is overkill. My favourite amp is my silverface SR which really starts to bark at around 5-6. Although I love the sound of, say, 20 watt amps, they don't move the air the same way.
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Not so loud here! I don't gig (I just play weekly basement jams, small club jams and barbecues).

    I had my 5E3 clone set at 5 last night with a guitar with Humbuckers plugged into input #1 of the bright channel and it was loud enough.

    With my 50 watt Mesa/Boogie I usually have the clean channel's gain at 1 o'clock and the master at about 10 o'clock. The dirty channel's gain at about 2:30 and the master at about 11 o'clock.
    This amp is capable of sounding good at both lower volume levels and much higher volume levels than the 5E3 clone. In fact, I've never had an amp that sounded as good at very low levels as this one. It sounds great from the basement to an outdoor barbecue.

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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc W View Post
    I couldn't agree more, Gris. Generations of players have grown up with overdrive pedals and master volumes which, for the most part, were meant to imitate the sound of an amp being pushed a little (or a lot). This is quite a different thing, although many of these same players developed a very light and fast touch because of this.

    It IS a physical experience to play an amp loud and it is not just loudness. When the air around you is hot because you are louder, you play differently. You touch the guitar differently when it is always on the edge of feedback and you learn how to work with that feedback to make notes sing a little. Yes, you can get a very similar sound with pedals, but the touch is quite different - the compression, everything.

    I also agree that you don't need to go over 50 watts to get that (and 50 watts is PLENTY loud). I have a 40 watt Traynor YCV40 with a gain and a clean channel and I like it on the clean channel at about 6. The overdrive is overkill. My favourite amp is my silverface SR which really starts to bark at around 5-6. Although I love the sound of, say, 20 watt amps, they don't move the air the same way.
    OK, now your getting me hot! I love it when you talk like that!!!

    What I've been ending up using more than anything else lately (because of smaller rooms) is a 57RI Les Paul into my 5E3 clone using a Tone Tubby. Bright channel, vol around 6, tone about 7 or so. It's loud, it sings with sustain and it cuts.

    Although my favorite is my 67 Super anywhere past 6 on the volume. That's when I start surfing the tone! It used to be a 78 Marshall JMP 100, but don't need that much loud anymore.

    Have fun!

    - HR

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    Forum Member wingnut1's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I just don't play anywhere that I can play an amp that powerful wide open. In the 6G16 I'm building I'm going to install some type of power scaling scheme in it and in my 5E3 clone as well. My hope is that this will allow me to get the natural gain and distortion of the amp without making my ears bleed. I know I won't be moving air like I would if I could actually play wide open without scaling, but I'm hoping it's a better compromise than an attenuator or MV.

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    Forum Member Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    In the right venue I do turn it up to those fun levels.

    Christmas Eve I play an annual show at a big club where I get to bring out the big amps.

  18. #18
    Forum Member ronworld's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    When I started in the seventies, playing a les paul through a super 100 half stack was the only way to get that great rock sound. Full volume, cabs pointing backwards, fire extiguishers and a bucket of spare fuses at the ready. I was nothing to go into a pub venue and see 2 2x12's pointing at your table! Thankfully Technology and my intellect have moved on since then. Yes, sometimes a room can just swallow your sound, but monitors not power is the answer. Later on in normal sized rooms anyway I learned to get the volume right for the venue we played. Smaller modern amps mean great sound less ear damage and less groin injuries! I still gig a classic Marshall valve amp, but its a 50 watt jcm 2x12 combo at around halve volume or less , not a bollock busting half stack!
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Playing at home I mostly play through a 1x12 champ with a 15 watt OT. Perfect to play at 10, especially with a Strat. For recording it sounds like a huge amp cranked. Not moving a ton of air, but it's still tube saturation, which is like the milk of the gods. ;-)

    - HR

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    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I play as loud as is appropriate for the room.

    Sometimes it's an on-the-edge 50W combo. Sometimes it's a cranked 5E3. Sometimes it's a 5F2-A on "8."
    Several guitars in different colors
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    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Of course, somewhere in here the whole issue of closed back vs. open comes into play. You need those closed backs when the wattage starts to get up to 40+ ... ;-)

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    Forum Member Coque's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    +1 on the whole "Loud + Feel/Experience" of playing

    I feel so good that it's not just me! I love a loud amp and I always blame my volume issues on the drummer (what the heck, they're ALWAYS loud). What can I say? A loud amp sounds so beautiful, round, rich and tonal, why not play loud?

    As a side note, I have been working on turning down as of late as I KNOW it will help the process of playing music with others.

    But if I'm not feelin' it, it just ain't the same.

    I think I read Alex Lifeson state years ago how they were looking for "pant-flap" derived from the air blasting from the speakers creating a "sonic breeze".

    What can I say, I dig pant flap.

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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I do still crank my DRRI but for quite some time now I've enclosed it in a collapsable Plexiglas box and mic it inside the box. I get to enjoy the crunchy tone and kill the people right in front of the stage and/or piss off the band folks.

  24. #24
    Forum Member Doc W's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut1 View Post
    I just don't play anywhere that I can play an amp that powerful wide open. In the 6G16 I'm building I'm going to install some type of power scaling scheme in it and in my 5E3 clone as well. My hope is that this will allow me to get the natural gain and distortion of the amp without making my ears bleed. I know I won't be moving air like I would if I could actually play wide open without scaling, but I'm hoping it's a better compromise than an attenuator or MV.
    I think this is the main reason for the dramatic increase in the popularity of tweeds. Sure, most don't move as much air as later amps, but for SURE it is a much better choice than an attenuator or master volume. And some of the bigger tweeds are pretty damn loud anyway.

    I love my 40 watt amps but I know that there is 5E3 with a hot speaker somewhere in my future (and maybe not-too-distant future).
    "The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."

  25. #25
    Forum Member concert410's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I have found that matching the volume to the venue is the key to getting a lot of repeat business. Like everyone else, I love to play loud. Like a good salesman, I do what it takes to get repeat business. Anyone can play a venue once. The real pros get to come back.....
    A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash

  26. #26
    Forum Member flintpunk's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    It really depends on what I'm playing...Some music is fun to play loud and that's where the tone for that particular type of music comes from. When I'm playing punk, hard rock or hair band stuff, out comes the Silvertone (35-40 watts) with both channels dimed and jumpered into a 4x12, usually with no effects. The tone is pure Marshall. My LP Jr. sounds like Angus coming out of that rig. That rig is L.A.F. and it is why a couple of my buddies call me "Loud Al".

    When I'm playing classic rock, rockabilly, or country, I either use the SF Twin or the SF Princeton depending on the size of the venue. I like a very low stage volume when I'm playing those kinds of music and I like the tone of those two amps at the lower volumes.

    Am I weird? Prolly. Just the way I do it.
    ...and on the 8th day, God created the Super Reverb and there was ROCK, and it was GOOD!

  27. #27
    Forum Member holmis63's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I love to crank a tube amp at absolute max setting! So, the last years i´ve invested in low wattage tube amps, one Harley benton
    GA5H but that one was to loud to dime at home. So, i recently bought an old silvetone that is OK to play full pedal at home!

    But when i rehearse or gig i sometimes bring along my super twin reverb and play loooud, i´ve been playing since the seventies and back then everyone played loud.

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    Forum Member juniorspecial's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I love to play my guitar loud. Especially slide guitar.

    But it's nice when you can hear the vocals over the guitar, and that seems to come about better when the guitars are lower. Plus, if you play the guitars loud, the drummer usually starts playing like a blacksmith pounding out new horseshoes, and then everyone stands at the back of the hall.

  29. #29
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by juniorspecial View Post
    ...

    and then everyone stands at the back of the hall.

    And we have a winner.

    You set the volume to the crowd. If they are up front dancing you have it nailed. If the area in front of the stage is vacant, you need to back off.

    And I always watch the bar. If the bartenders are having trouble hearing the drink orders you're in trouble.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by concert410 View Post
    I have found that matching the volume to the venue is the key to getting a lot of repeat business. Like everyone else, I love to play loud. Like a good salesman, I do what it takes to get repeat business. Anyone can play a venue once. The real pros get to come back.....
    Ding ding ding ding! Another perfect post!

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    Forum Member Totally bored's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Deluxe Reverb on 3 1/2 or so. Can't deal with the ringing in my ears when I go to bed after the gig. If I need volume I'll use a mic.

    When I was a kid I use to loose gigs because I was to loud. Hate that, takes so much practice, rehearsal and work to get a gig and one knob makes you loose it. Don't matter how good you where.


    You dinosaurs use ear plugs or what ?

    I hate ear plugs. Sounds muffle'd. I quess it wouldn't sound muffle'd if I had a big arse amp cranking out volume.

  32. #32
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally bored View Post

    You dinosaurs use ear plugs or what ?

    I hate ear plugs. Sounds muffle'd. I quess it wouldn't sound muffle'd if I had a big arse amp cranking out volume.
    I'm tellin ya--put the amp in a Plexiglas box and use wireless in-ear monitoring. It is the perfect aging-rocker solution. I get nicely cooking tubes on my DR, no angry bars or patrons, no ringing ears of my own, and I hear everyone I need to hear exactly as loudly or softly as I want to hear them. It's fantastic.

  33. #33
    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    In-ear, not just for drummers! That should be their ad.

  34. #34
    Forum Member thegeezer's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    You need a certain amount of volume to create dynamics which IMO make the band sound. If you are using dynamics you aren't too loud.

  35. #35
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Dynamics are great - but if you're playing the local watering hole with a 100-watt Marshall stack or SF Twin Reverb cranked to Jimi Hendrix/BB King levels, you're just playing too loud, no matter what.

    The past few gigs I've done, I've gone home with absolutely no whistling or ringing in my ears - and my hearing is fine. We play low enough that no earplugs are necessary - and dynamics would quickly go out the window if you're playing too loud. At lower volume you really have to LISTEN to each other and generate excitement by what you play, not by how the guitar tone whacks you in the butt or flaps your pantleg.

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  36. #36
    Forum Member redb's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    None of my amps have master volumes.

    I can run my 18watt in the house, the others have to go in the great big plywood box I built, even when running through a 1x12.
    Mitch Mitchell talking about Jimi and strats in general.
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I play my TopHat CR around 3/4. Usually I adjust for the room with my Guitar volume and picking technique. Most of the time these days, I play without a pick. Love the sound of flesh on the strings, it really allows for great dynamics--quite as a whisper and then you can dig in for more balls and sustain.

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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    I can't say much from the stage side, never been there. From the audience side I find the majority of bands play too loud regardless of venue or genre. I think it's much more likely a given band is playing too loud rather than about at the right level. I have never heard a band play in a bar or a concert where I wanted them to turn it up. Sorry for the long-winded reply but this is a pet peeve of mine.

    In a bar setting, too loud is when you can't hold a conversation without screaming at the person next to you. Where you're seated has a lot to do with that but in general a band is too loud if they cause social activity to cease. Folks aren't always at your show because of you or what you play. Fact: There will be a number of people in the audience that think your band sucks for one reason or another and playing loud will not change their minds.

    In a concert setting there should be a more band-focused sound level since the people there paid to see you perform.

    When things get too loud it's almost always at the expense of the mix and clarity. I want to hear every instrument's contribution, I want to hear the vocals.

    The most recent show I attended (at an outdoor venue) is a good example. The opening band was "A200", apparently a local group. Never heard of them. They sounded good -- plenty loud, good mix, they played well and the lead singer was very good. "The Smithereens" came up next and they were awful. They played too loud but not everyone was loud. I couldn't really hear the guitarist but I wanted to because I think he was doing good work. I could hear the bass, drums and vocals but not with any detail, it just sounded like noise (the vocals were really bad). They were playing so loud the PA's couldn't handle it cleanly. The headline act was "Blues Traveler" and the second they started to play you just knew they had it figured out. I could hear every detail but at a volume that immersed me completely in the music.

    Pant flap sucks. Pat Travers played here about 8-10 years ago. I went because Dave Larue was playing bass, not because I knew anything about the band. I figured if Dave was in the band they probably don't suck. All I heard was kick drum -- literally! I could not hear the guitar, or Dave, or even the vocals. Every time the drummer hit the pedal, my pant leg would flap. We were seated as far away from the stage as you could be, probably 150 feet back. We left after they started the third song -- with ear pain.

    .......Bill

  39. #39
    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Two examples:

    #1 - Subbed in at a local gig in cave bar (LOL) about a year ago. The band I played with did Neil Young, Steve Earle, etc. and was perfect for the venue. I'd guess I was doing about 15 watts through somebody's old DR. The main act followed and their guitarist dimed a Twin every song! WAY too loud for the gig.

    #2 - Last July I played a mini-festival outdoors. First night had my 40 watt BM on 7. Other bands said they couldnt hear me. Second night I dimed it - and used pedals - and it was perfect... ;-)

    Moral of the story? Pants flap still KILLS in the right setting, LOL!

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    Re: Who Still Plays LOUD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gris View Post
    #2 - Last July I played a mini-festival outdoors. First night had my 40 watt BM on 7. Other bands said they couldnt hear me. Second night I dimed it - and used pedals - and it was perfect... ;-)

    Moral of the story? Pants flap still KILLS in the right setting, LOL!
    Or the other guys could have turned down. ....Bill

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