I received my 6G16 Vibroverb kit yesterday and I thought I would share some pictures of the cab and speakers.
I received my 6G16 Vibroverb kit yesterday and I thought I would share some pictures of the cab and speakers.
Looks really good. I love that rough brown tolex.
What are the speakers?
I also am curious as to which speakers those are...specifically the alnico on the right.
Hope you'll share pics of the project in progress!
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
The speakers are a Weber 10F150 and a Weber 10A150. I plan on updating this thread as I work on the amp.
Cool! I have my eye on a 10A125 for a Tweed Harvard idea I'm working up.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
I have a 12A125 in my 5E3 Tweed Deluxe and it's a great speaker for that amp.
It's also a great speaker in the 6A20. Makes it very crankable. I use mine like I use a 5E3 now. It's a great speaker all round.
PERFECT choice of speakers for this amp IMO. The high end roll off will allow you to turn up the treble and get some good harmonic gain going.Originally Posted by wingnut1
Notwithstanding the tube chart saying 12AX7 all the way across, I'd experiment with some 12AT7 especially in the verb section. IIRC, in the original one we just rebuilt a few weeks ago we ended up with a 12AT7 in the verb (recovery?) and a 5751 in V2, nothing in V1 and an AX in the PI.
It was one of the very best sounding amps I've ever played through - nice and loud with just the right amount of headroom and better distortion for some reason than a BF Lux. I liked it better than the BF Lux. Maybe I was hallucinating but it seemed to have a tad more midrange, which I liked better.
I might be tempted to throw in a 1x12 baffle though, I dunno. I'd try it both ways. It has potential to be THE perfect all round amp for my style if dialed in with tubes and speaker.
What colour of faceplate did you go for?
I'd bet my paycheck it's BROWN!
Probably is, yeah.
When I got the cowboy deluxe reverb I ordered it in brown with a wheat grille and black faceplate. It's a nice combination, if not especially traditional.
The control panel is brown with white lettering. Unfortunately is was broken during shipping so they will need to replace it. They only had the black skirted knobs so I ordered some of the brown ones like on the original 63 VV.
On the original schematic and layout they go with 7025 except an at in V3 for the reverb driver. I'll experiment to see what I like, but I'll probably go all ax expect an at in V3.
My bad, the have 7025 in V1, V2, V4 and V6 and ax in V3 and V5. When you look at tube substitution charts the 7025 and ax are supposed to be interchangeable.
7025 is 12AX7, just supposedly a higher grade of it.
Another thing I did on Matty's VV was to buy a $4 female RCA to female 1/4, then took the reverb RCA cable out and coupled it to a short 1/4 cable run into the normal channel. It makes the reverb much more tweakable/useable.
Interesting Gris, I'm having a difficult time picturing exactly what your describing. Are you saying that you replaced the recovery cable and instead of running it through the recovery tube you fed it into the normal channel input?
Was the handle your choice or is that just how that cab comes?.......Bill
The handle was my choice. I like it better than the black strap handles on the originals.
The originals are brown. I think they are or at least were available as a replacement item (in brown). The metal parts are junk so you're probably better off with the dogbone.
Great looking amp my friend, I can't wait to play it!
Jerry
Sweet! This is a Weber kit, I take it? I've been eyeing this kit for a long time. I'll be watching this thread with great interest!
I got started in earnest on the amp today. First I had to enlarge the input, output and RCA jack holes so that I can use isolating shoulder washers.
Then I mounted the power transformer.
Now I'm trying to figure out where to locate the OT, Choke and Reverb Transformer so that they don't interefere with the dog house and I don't have to run wires a long way to their respective connections.
I've found that referencing the original drawings from Fender helps. Getting as clsoe as you can will help a lot, as I'm sure they did a lot o revisions to get it 'right'.
Coincidentally, I fired up my BF Vibroverb build for the first time, and did a quick voltage test. The most interesting discovery I made was that I did not need to isolate the input jacks in thi build even though I used a ground buss ground scheme. In the tweeds I do that have a ground-buss, the input jacks must be isolated, or I have a bad ground loop.
My theory is that it's due to the filter stages being on the buss instead of on a different ground point as I had done on the BFVV. I want to test that sometime soon by separating the filter grounds off of the buss in the tweeds sometime.
Hopefully, this will help you in your planning since you're at this early stage.
Thanks for updating. This is a very interesting project!
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Good Idea about referring to the original drawing to locate the various iron. I went through a lot of work to get my 6A20 quiet with various noises so I'm not taking any changes and I'm going to isolate things from the start. I find it easier to do when the chassis is empty rather than waiting till everything is installed.
Somone brought over a Blues Junior to modify last night so I don't know if I'll get much time to work on it today.
I got the rest of the iron and the tube sockets on today.
Lookin Good my friend.
Today I wired up the cap board and put it in the dog house.
Here is the rear panel in all its chocolaty goodness.
What do you think about adding a PPIMV to this build? I've read a lot of negative comments on the MV added to the Silverface amps, but I've never played one and so I'm not familiar with the issues. I'd like to go with 6L6 power tubes while being able to play at moderate volumes. What are the pros and cons.
Don't do it. Just put a 12AY7 in V1/V2 and/or a 12AT7 in the PI. That will bring the volume WAY down w/o mucking up the circuit, sound and value of the amp.
PS - I give you less than a month before you order another alnico to replace the 10F150... ;-)
Count me as another vote for "no MV".
Looking good, wingnut!
Thanks guys, I'm afraid Gris that if I change the tubes to lower gain tubes it's simply going to give me more clean headroom and make it harder to overdrive the amp. One nice thing about building an amp is that I don't have to worry about lowering the value by modding the amp. If I try the MV and I don't like it I can always take it out. There is already an extra hole in the chassis for a Mid pot if you build a 6A40 out of the kit so I'm not drilling an extra hole in the chassis only the faceplate. If I take it out I can simply get a new faceplate.
Well there are a number of tube swaps that will accomplish what you want, both pre-amp and power tubes, all of which will sound much better than a master volume IMO.
First, if you are really serious about cutting the volume/breakup point down you can use 6L6 GB instead of 6L6 GC. You should definitely put a lower gain tube in the PI. That alone will cut the volume way down. If you like pre-amp overdrive stay with an AX or AT in V1/V2. Alternatively, if you like less pre-amp and more power tube distortion put an AY in V1/V2.
IMO, it is pretty much an illusion that lower gain pre-amp tubes "give you more headroom" - at least in this circuit. In my experience they give you less overall volume. IMO, the best way to get more headroom is to use cleaner and more powerful power tubes and different kinds of 12AX7 pre-amp tubes. I used to use 7581A and EH 12AX7 for max headroom.
FWIW, we tried all these and more tube swaps in the real '63 VV we recently restored and were able to cut the volume in half. Just putting an AY and AT in the gain stage and PI may be enough.
ps - what model OT is that? It looks bigger than stock. Maybe it is just the photo. I dunno.
The OT is a Weber W018343.
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/018343sch.jpg
Looks like it could be a Super Reverb sized OT, specs aside. You'll likely get a boost on your headroom with the larger OT, though; the VVs had smaller iron compared to a Super Reverb from what I understand, but it's possible that Weber's is the proper sizem but just mounted with four bolts instead of two.
Did you specifically choose a different OT than came with the kit? Not trying to insinuate that there's anything wrong with your choice...just curious!
Thanks for the updates!
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Yeah that is a little bigger than the BM/Trem/Lux OT that was orig to the brown VV. At first I thought it was just the angle of that first photo in post #24 that made it look bigger - like an optical illusion. The one I just bought (Triode) for a new project has Fender replacement part number 22848 and is a tad smaller than yours. I guess mine is the same as Weber's part # 22848, except it has 4 & 8 ohms out instead of just 4. You may get a smidge more bottom end and headroom out of yours. Did that come with the kit or was it a special order?
Yup, that's exactly what it is - a Super/Bassman OT. I just checked the specs. It'll sound more like a Super than a brown Vibroverb. You won't get the VV early breakup with that OT, but you will get a tighter twangier bottom.
ps - lemme know if you wanna swap for a VV 'correct' OT. i don't care which one goes in my project. Mine's just gonna be a gigging mutant.
It's the one that came with the kit. I think that Ted has tranies built that he can use for several different kits. This one is probably designed to be used for the blackface and brownface clones using 2 6L6 output tubes. I think I'll try it with this transformer first and I can always change it later if feel the need.
According to Ted's website, the layout drawing calls for a different OT. Again, you've got what you want considering your sonic goals I think, so it's no big deal, but I'm interested in the discrepancy.
It's all good though!
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
I'm looking at the layout right now and that's the output transformer it has listed on it.
Huh...you are correct. What the hell was I looking at?! Regardless, the size of the supplied OT is definitely bigger than VV stock OTs; both Brown and BF VVs.
Sorry for the confusion! I'm thetoday.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
If you look at the actual specs it's the same as his Super/Bassman OT except that it's multi-tap. I don't understand why he would put that one in his kits when he also stocks the correct OT and at a lower price??? It will definitely change the character of the amp. There are two schools of Fender Lux/Bandmaster players - those who like the original small OTs for earlier breakup and more compression and those that like the bigger Super/Bassman OTs for more bottom end and headroom. If you are using the Super/Bassman OT you have, then you might well want to try that master volume.
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