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Thread: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

  1. #1
    Forum Member blewgrass's Avatar
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    Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I would like to know from the gear heads here how nice the Nash clones are. Do these play as good as a custom shop Fender or are they a step (or two or three) down?

    Has anyone here created their ultimate electric from parts? I am thinking of building my own tele or strat from scratch. I know several high end luthiers that will lend me hand tools, laquer spraying booths, etc. Ideally I will use high end fender copy parts and just do finishing, electronics and appointments myself. Sort of "salting to taste".

    Any feedback, stories and pics of your masterpiece would be welcomed.

    Steve

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I cain't say about the Nash gitts but my "Numbah One" go-to guitar is a parts-o-caster, with gin-you-whine Fender components from all over the globe. All hand-selected stuff. MIM body, MIJ neck, MIA 'lectronics an' hardware.

    I'm basically done wif off-the-rack, store-bought guitars.

    HTH
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I considered a Nash until I saw one. The good news is that it encouraged me to do it myself! I figured nothing I built could be worse than that.
    My latest project, somewhat farther along than the pic:
    It's a homebrew body & a USACG 1 pc. maple neck-

    A couple of Strats: USACG necks, Custom Shop '54 p'ups, all USA electronics, one MIJ '62 RI body (stripped & refinned Teal Green Metallic), one MIM '60s body (stripped & refinned Shell Pink), & assorted nickel hardware-




    I know, I know- I keep trotting out the same pics of the same guitars, but what the heck. I like them.
    Last edited by Cogs; 02-03-2009 at 11:17 PM.

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    Forum Member blewgrass's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Thanks. So far I only own "off the shelf" Fender AS Tele and AS Strat. Overall, I am very pleased with these instruments and they are my favorite electric guitars. I also own a carved top jazz hollow body, but the Fenders do the electric thing best.

    I think I would like to build a '52 blonde ash relic Tele in nitro laquer with some nice custom wound alnico pickups. Nothing earth shattering but slightly above stock.

    Funny thing is, many of my friends who end up messing with their stock pickups often wish they hadn't.

    I'll start shopping for a body and neck for starters, and see where it goes.

    I like that 71818. Is that Red a primer or the final color? You're wetting my appetite for this project.

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    That's the final color, Fiesta Red & a few coats of clear.

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Looks like Fiesta Red to me.

    Lookin' good, Robert!

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Here's a coupla shots of my "Numbah One", blewgrass......





    Robert Cray hardtail body, Fender-Japan premium-vintage bound '65 neck, Fender SCN pickups with 10-way S1 switching. About 7.25 lbs all told.
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    the easiest way to do a 52 type tele is to get a nice resonant 52 ri and rewire it with some vintage correct Alnico 3 pickups, and also change the controls to '62 type. fender doesn't make a correct early (pre '55) tele, the pups are wrong...

    8675309 and phantomplanet, along with me, have made plenty of guitars. i have found that it is pretty "hit and miss", don't know of these guys will agree with me, but a guitar is a sum of its parts. YMMV.

    best of luck to ya!
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I agree (mos'ly), Chuck. A great way to git an early, correct Tele might be to start with a fundamentally-sound existing instrument, then take it from there. I've done that several times myseff. Or the other tack is just as viable......startin' out with raw lumber an' a vision for guidance. I've only gone that route once (with a custom luthier doin' the "heavy lifting") but in that case I wanted a nitro ash body with very specific details.

    As to a guitar bein' the sum of its parts, tha's absolutely true. I've been relatively fortunate but I'm sure for every ten or twenty custom instruments built, a few have ended up lacking and ultimately cast aside. I've got a lotta parts that looked good in a photo but did not pass my muster under close scrutiny. I call that the price of doon bidness (wife claims it's a real 'spensive "learning curve").

    They's plenty of hepp available right here on the TFF (it's where I got a lotta my ideas from), so I say go for it.

    Best of luck an' HTH

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I didn't like the Nash guitar that I saw up close. It looked fake (I don't like relics, anyway).
    The USACG T-Style that I assembled myself is a better guitar for less money.

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I have a pal who has a KILLER Nash tele (the 52RI variant or whatever it's called).

    He bought it used. It has a medium-sized neck profile with 6105s and a 9.5 ish radius fretboard. Lovely guitar, it is. Nice and light with mucho spank.

    The only thing I didn't like about it was the (IMO) over-the-top relicing. Well, that and the fact that it went home with him and not me.

    Tone is in the fingers, eh? Let's hear your Vox, Marshall and Fender fingerings then...

  12. #12
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    yep, plenty of help here. you just gotta make sure that the parts you're using are good. that will give you a better chance of making a killer.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    USACG makes a killer Tele-style body, it even has the little "router hump" in the cutaway. And Tommy is keenly aware of a player's weight preferences. He's always hefting body blanks & tapping on boards in his shop, lol.
    Back to a statement the original poster made, it's not been my experience that I've ever felt like I've built the "ultimate electric". To the contrary, I feel like every one I've made needs further tweaking, at least initially. That's probably due to the fact that so many choices are available, & the ones you finally decide upon always leave you wondering if it was the best choice.
    Over time I've settled in & become VERY satisfied w/my Shell Pink Strat clone. The Teal Strat is a close second, but the Shell Pink one is the one I play the most. I eventually set both guitars up to factory specifications & did some minor personal tweaks, & then I was done. I had to make a conscious decision to quit messing w/it, though. It was like, "No, a different pickguard is NOT going to make it sound any better, & a capacitor change may or may not work like you think. You might end up having to take it all apart again just to get it back like it is now. So quit now & be happy."

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    I had to make a conscious decision to quit messing w/it, though.
    LOLOL, Robert!



    Problem is (to those of us who do this), tweaking and hot-rodding are an addiction.

    Must be that we all got a leetle "Leo" in us, eh?

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Roger, your numbah-one is absolutely gorgeous! Nice work.

    And every one that 71818 builds makes me want yet another Strat too. Awesome work on those too!

  16. #16
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    You ain' lyin' there......"The General" strikes gold wif everythang he touches!

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    LOLOL, Robert!



    Problem is (to those of us who do this), tweaking and hot-rodding are an addiction.

    Must be that we all got a leetle "Leo" in us, eh?

    guilty as charged.

    rob does make some real nice stuff.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    They're never "finished".

    My USACG T-Style is a great guitar, playability and tone are wonderful, but I still tinker with it. I bought, sold and traded a lot of pickups until I found the set that I liked the best for it.

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    First step is admitting you have a problem...
    lol!
    Seriously, though- the best way for me to put a stop to incessant tweaking is just starting another one. I don't think that is really maintaining "recovery", though.

  20. #20
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    the best way for me to put a stop to incessant tweaking is just starting another one.
    LMFAO!!!

    I need me one o' them "medic alert" bracelets......

    I AM A GUITAR ADDICT WITH TERMINAL "GAS"
    IN CASE OF EMERGENCY GET ME A STRATOCASTER


    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    I considered a Nash until I saw one. The good news is that it encouraged me to do it myself! I figured nothing I built could be worse than that.
    . . . .
    I know, I know- I keep trotting out the same pics of the same guitars, but what the heck. I like them.
    I've never seen a Nash in person. They look okay in phtots, but tend toward the ratty end of the relic'ing spectrum, which doesn't appeal to me in the least. The excessive beating tends to trip my BS-o-Meter too.

    From what I've seen of yours, you stop way short of wailing the crap out of them. I think the subtlety makes them look a lot more believable.
    Have you ever gone just ape$#t on one?
    Or did you stop, say, "Oops," and re-do them?

    Also, it looks like you have that yellowing tint technique down. The rearview of the pink and the teal ones real demonstrate that.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
    Elvis Costello

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    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    First step is admitting you have a problem...
    lol!
    Seriously, though- the best way for me to put a stop to incessant tweaking is just starting another one. I don't think that is really maintaining "recovery", though.
    What really helped me was joining a band. That and learning how to tinker with amps and build pedals!

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Thanks, Neo. I have gone overboard before, & went back & had to redo whole bodies. Necks I've lost count as to how many times I've had to go backl & start from scratch!
    As far as the tint goes, the backs of BOTH those guitars are more representative of their true shades. As I was taking pics the sun was peeking in & out of the clouds so some shots seem to be different colors. You can tell by looking at the fabric on the chair.
    I really don't use much amber tint at all, because if you allow the guitar to sit out of the case (on a stand or hanger) for any length of time it will yellow on its own. Not to the degree that you see on the AVRI guitars, I might add. That was the first thing I noticed on those when they came out in the '80: How come the neck looks like it's been in a smoky bar for the last twenty years, but the lacquer is like glass w/out any dings or scratches?

  24. #24
    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Yeah, I'm not a big fan of amber tinting. I'd rather see it happen over time. Amber tint, after it actually ages, looks really bogus.
    Several guitars in different colors
    Things to make them fuzzy
    Things to make them louder
    orange picks

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Yea, a little bit goes a long way, literally.

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    Forum Member blewgrass's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    The insights and experiences from the members here are very helpful in my inquiring mind here. Some initial poking around on the evil bay tells me that I'm in for a $1000+ project if I go for all the goodies I really want. (At this point I'm leaning toward a slightly raunchier version of the '52 RI from Fender - one of the best selling production Telecasters)

    This helps me better understand the initial advice suggesting I buy a stock instrument and tweak it to my taste. I saw a '98 52RI for $900. Is that a good deal?

    Then I could make subtle adjustments to the guitar. The only downside is I really have my heart set on Nitro laquer and I think the 52RI is a poly finish.

    EDIT: It looks like they are calling this guitar the "american vintage" and not the RI. Does anyone know the history of specs on this gutiar. the one I'm looking at is a 98.


    Steve

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    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Pay attention to your neck's 12th-fret dot spacing......

    1953 Telecaster specs:

    Neck fingerboard dots change spacing. On pre-1953 models, dots are about 1" (center to center) apart at the 12th fret. On 1953 and later models, the dot spacing is about 1 1/8" center to center.


    Not a major detail, but if'n you're shootin' for historical authenticity this item will determine some of the other necessary visual cues like the type of knurled knobs, shape of the switch tip, possibly the jack cup. Also, early Teles were serialized via a stamped number on the bridge plate (not the more common neck plate as was usual with the Strat).

    Best of luck, HTH
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    It's been a couple of years since I've shopped for parts, but I'd bet you could get an all nitro project finished (no pun intended) for under $1K. You'd just have to do a lot of the labor yourself.

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Problem is (to those of us who do this), tweaking and hot-rodding are an addiction.
    LOL -- see my sig...

    I built my first parts-o-caster over 10 years ago, and liked it so much that eventually I built 5 more for myself, plus a few others for friends or clients. Some have been real keepers, some not. Some of them have ended up as parts donors that sit in the closet, waiting for the next project.

    I've got a tele that I put together that I call "The Magic Guitar;" there's just something really special about it. It's the one I'll grab on the way out, should the house ever burn.

    I would definitely agree with the former posters in regard to a) the whole is absolutely greater than the sum of the parts, and b) building a clone (usually) ain't cheap -- do it for the satisfaction of the work itself, rather than as a cost-cutting measure, or you'll most likely be disappointed.

    Above all, if you choose to roll your own, have fun with it! And don't be afraid to ask for input from folks here -- there's a wealth of talent and experience (and dumbassery) here.
    There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
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  30. #30
    Forum Member blewgrass's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by 71818 View Post
    It's been a couple of years since I've shopped for parts, but I'd bet you could get an all nitro project finished (no pun intended) for under $1K. You'd just have to do a lot of the labor yourself.
    One of the key aspects of the project is the finish. This is the area a hamburger like me could actually improve upon a Fender instrument. My buddy is a violin maker and also dabbles in electric and acoustic guitars as well as mandolins and ukes. He usually hand brushes about 20-30 coats of laquer and hand sands it between each coat. The finish winds up very thin and incredible. He spends about half of the shop hours of an instrument on the finish, and I'm sold on that policy. This is where production factories have to streamline in order to make money. If Fender spent that time on a finish, they would lose lots of $$.

  31. #31
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by pseudocat View Post
    "dumbassery"
    I like that, P-cat!

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  32. #32

    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    Quote Originally Posted by blewgrass View Post
    One of the key aspects of the project is the finish. This is the area a hamburger like me could actually improve upon a Fender instrument. My buddy is a violin maker and also dabbles in electric and acoustic guitars as well as mandolins and ukes. He usually hand brushes about 20-30 coats of laquer and hand sands it between each coat. The finish winds up very thin and incredible. He spends about half of the shop hours of an instrument on the finish, and I'm sold on that policy. This is where production factories have to streamline in order to make money. If Fender spent that time on a finish, they would lose lots of $$.
    What does he sand to in between coats? Just 600? Wet?

    Curious...

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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    When I spray lacquer I probably thin it a little more than I should. I don't even keep track of how many coats I get on there anymore since I'm just eyeballing it these days. I know it sounds fly-by-night, & it is. But I get pretty good results & the lacquer is thinner than saran-wrap on there. Nowhere near 20-30 coats!

  34. #34
    Forum Member Custom 5's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    I have played a few Nash guitars and was very impressed with them.

    The one major advantage with buying an already assembled guitar is that, you get to hear what it sounds like before you spend the money. Some of my guitars that I labored over never met the mark no matter what I did to them. They eventually became parts that were sold or found their way into other projects where they faired better. Some are still around and I know they'll be fit to something else eventually.

  35. #35
    Forum Member LesPauloholic's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Nash vs. Homeclone

    The regular ole' 52 RI (American Vintage) Tele has a nitro finish, but has a poly base-coat. This makes Fender's finishing job a bit easier and helps protect the guitar's finish from checking (cracking) as easily as a guitar that does not have a poly base coat. You can also find the 52 RI in the "Thin Skin" finish at a few dealers, like Wildwood Guitars. These do not have the poly base coat, just nitro. They will age a bit quicker. Both are cool. If the nitro finish over poly base bothers you, get a thin skin, a No-Caster, or find someone to paint a body for you the old school way.

    Good luck,
    Greg


    Quote Originally Posted by blewgrass View Post
    The insights and experiences from the members here are very helpful in my inquiring mind here. Some initial poking around on the evil bay tells me that I'm in for a $1000+ project if I go for all the goodies I really want. (At this point I'm leaning toward a slightly raunchier version of the '52 RI from Fender - one of the best selling production Telecasters)

    This helps me better understand the initial advice suggesting I buy a stock instrument and tweak it to my taste. I saw a '98 52RI for $900. Is that a good deal?

    Then I could make subtle adjustments to the guitar. The only downside is I really have my heart set on Nitro laquer and I think the 52RI is a poly finish.

    EDIT: It looks like they are calling this guitar the "american vintage" and not the RI. Does anyone know the history of specs on this gutiar. the one I'm looking at is a 98.


    Steve
    Q: How many guitars are enough??

    A: Just one more.

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