How rare is a '63 Vibroverb?

[cwilliamrose]

I don't see much about this amp on forums. I figured it's due to the relative rarity of this amp but maybe it's something else -- like the '64 Vibroverb's connection to SRV making that the more interesting subject. I'm not really sure how rare it is but with all the reissues around, that's what most people seem to talk about. Are they sought after amps or just curiosities? I don't see them offered for sale either, what are they worth these days? Of the 500-600 of these that were made, I wonder how many are still around?

.........Bill

[phantomman]

I seen a brown Tolex '61 Pro in a store today. About 8/10. Fifty-five hunnert yankee dollahs.

I'd call a '63 VV in similar condition an even "six large" or thereabouts.

HTH

[Kap'n]

I think there were 200-300 brown Vibroverbs made. Pretty rare, but not super-rare.

[cwilliamrose]

I guess super rare would be a prototype run or a custom design where just a few examples were made. A few hundred isn't much of a production run. I think they made quite a few more '64s.

And $6K! I was off by a factor of two (at least).......Bill

[Kap'n]

I'd consider anything that Fender made in quantities of less than 100 or so (single production runs or less) super-rare.

2x10 Vibroverbs were around for three production runs. Probably more common than a white Twin or Showman, a "White" amp, etc., for all of which there was at least one production run.

[stevedunleavy]

Highly collectible - Fender's first amp w/ reverb, iirc. Hard to find even one of these for sale nationwide at any given time. '08 VG price guide gives a range of $9,000 - $10,500.

And yes, I want one.

steve

I don't see much about this amp on forums. I figured it's due to the relative rarity of this amp but maybe it's something else -- like the '64 Vibroverb's connection to SRV making that the more interesting subject. I'm not really sure how rare it is but with all the reissues around, that's what most people seem to talk about. Are they sought after amps or just curiosities? I don't see them offered for sale either, what are they worth these days? Of the 500-600 of these that were made, I wonder how many are still around?

.........Bill

[cwilliamrose]

OMG Steve,

That price has got to be for a cosmetically like-new, 100% original, in perfect working condition, hermetically sealed example, right?

I'm in shock. My chassis is due to be delivered today after a trip to the amp tech to get it working properly. He (Dave Hayes) did the following;

Electrolytic cap replacement(Sprague Atom)

Mercury Magnetics Output Transformer

Replace a few resistors including the bias board resistor and capacitor

Pre-amp tubes

Power Tubes

Rectifier Tube

Rebias

Clean all pots , Jacks and Switches

New 3 Prong Grounded Power Supply Cord

The filter caps were good, believe it or not. All the pulled original parts were retained and will stay with the amp. We did this with an eye toward saving as much as possible of the original parts and not "modifying" the amp but having a 100% working amp with no issues. Dave reports that it sounds great, probably better than new.

While Dave had the chassis I cleaned the Tolex, re-glued any places where it was peeling (mostly inside the cabinet) and I'm working on replacing any hardware that is corroded -- nothing really bad but the cabinet looks better than it's hardware. Cosmetically it's probably an 8 or 9 on a 1-to-10 scale. Any minor damage to the Tolex is invisible from beyond about 4-5 feet. The grill cloth is perfect. Again, I'll save any original parts I replace.

I may need to re-plate some of the original hardware, the replacement parts they sell these days are junk compared to the originals and some “replacement parts” don't match my originals. Do you know of anyone that does nickel plating on small parts?

I have owned this amp since about 1966, I'm the second owner as far as I know. I’m trying to learn what I can about this amp but there isn’t much info to be found. I have read a section from a book that covers the VV offerings, ’63 thru RI. And I have read much of the FFG. Most of what I see on forums is not about the original amp, only the RI.

Bottom line, it looks like I under-insured the chassis!

I’d be happy to post some pictures if anyone is interested in seeing them. I plan to photograph the chassis and cabinet before re-assembly as well as the complete piece....Bill

[stevedunleavy]

Tom Wheeler's "The Soul Of Tone" is a great Fender amp resource - lots of history, lots of eye candy.

Post some pics - I'd like to see 'em.

cheers,
steve


I have owned this amp since about 1966, I'm the second owner as far as I know. I’m trying to learn what I can about this amp but there isn’t much info to be found. I have read a section from a book that covers the VV offerings, ’63 thru RI. And I have read much of the FFG. Most of what I see on forums is not about the original amp, only the RI.

Bottom line, it looks like I under-insured the chassis!

I’d be happy to post some pictures if anyone is interested in seeing them. I plan to photograph the chassis and cabinet before re-assembly as well as the complete piece....Bill[/QUOTE]

[NTBluesGuitar]

I’d be happy to post some pictures if anyone is interested in seeing them.

Uhhh...PLEASE?!!!

[phantomman]

I may need to re-plate some of the original hardware, the replacement parts they sell these days are junk compared to the originals and some “replacement parts” don't match my originals. Do you know of anyone that does nickel plating on small parts?

What this country needs......(AHEM)......

Is a good set of repro snowman knobs for those of us who are doon restorations or recreations of BF or early SF amps!

An' hay-ell yeah......GIT THEM PICS UP PRONTO!

[cwilliamrose]

I took these right after it arrived from back from Dave Hayes yesterday. Just teasers really, I took better ones last night at home but didn't get them uploaded yet. I'll post them tonight, promise!

These were taken with my old, old, old 3MP camera;





And this one shows the clips need to be tweaked a bit;



.........Bill

[Kap'n]

I'm getting red x's.

[cwilliamrose]

You caught me in the middle of figuring out how to do this. You're too quick!......Bill

[ampdan]

No gut shots? Sweet amp man, too bad about the output trans. I would lose the JJ's, and put some NOS glass in there. RCA blackplates mmmmmmm.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Whoa...remarkably clean! I can't wait to see the guts.

[cwilliamrose]

No gut shots? Sweet amp man, too bad about the output trans. I would lose the JJ's, and put some NOS glass in there. RCA blackplates mmmmmmm.

If you can wait a few hours, there will be more. I need to get home, take some assembled photos and upload.....Bill

[ziess]

Guuuuuuuuuuuut shottttttttttttttttttts!

[cwilliamrose]

Whoa...remarkably clean! I can't wait to see the guts.

Yeah, I was pretty surprised by the condition when I pulled the chassis. It didn't look to be 45 years old. Gut shots and overalls this evening.....Bill

[NTBluesGuitar]

Guuuuuuuuuuuut shottttttttttttttttttts!

If you don't relax, I'll give ya' a gut shot, Texas Style!!!



Just kidding...

[ziess]

What are the white strips running along the edge of the chassis? Was that just to hold it into the wooden box in shipping or was that some crazy brownface thing?

Tommy.

[ziess]

If you don't relax, I'll give ya' a gut shot, Texas Style!!!



Just kidding...

Hey!

I was emphasising the importance of gut shots. This must be the only general gear forum in the world where any time an amp is talked about gut shots are obligatory!

[NTBluesGuitar]

Hey!

I was emphasising the importance of gut shots. This must be the only general gear forum in the world where any time an amp is talked about gut shots are obligatory!

I had to get that jab in, though. It was too good an opportunity to waste.

[ziess]

Aw man, now I'm getting abuse on t'internet!

Y'know that chassis is nearly as clean as yours. Scary.
In other news I have now a massive collection of blue molded capacitors from the early 60's. Suitable for, say, a 3x10" brown Bandmaster.

S'all coming together!

[cwilliamrose]

What are the white strips running along the edge of the chassis? Was that just to hold it into the wooden box in shipping or was that some crazy brownface thing?

Tommy.

I wanted to use something with a large head to hold it down in the little crate I built, drywall screws and S/S finishing washers was the answer given what was handy. I cut those 1/16" plactic strips to put under the washers so they wouldn't mark the chassis.

I should have made up with some long-winded story about how a few of the late run '63 VVs had special chassis hardware but that would get debunked around here real quick and my fun would be over.

..........Bill

[ziess]

Good idea, I like it.

[cwilliamrose]

Gut Shots, more at my pBase site.











......Bill

[cwilliamrose]

Exterior views. Original stuff includes cabinet and Tolex, corners, tilt arms and stops, logo, grill cloth, handle (not handle hardware) and reverb bag. Replacements include chassis straps, handle hardware, panel screws (and washers) and glides.













More at my pBase site............Bill

[NTBluesGuitar]

Holy Christmas!!! That's insanely clean on the inside too! The tech who replaced thos electrolytics did a mighty fine job.

You, sir, have a legendary amp.

[ziess]

Wow, that's amazing! Good tech work too. At least it's not filled with blooming Orange Drops!

[stevedunleavy]

Nice, so nice.

Wow, that's amazing! Good tech work too. At least it's not filled with blooming Orange Drops!

[Pearly Grapes]

Wow! Cool amp! I bet it sounds great!
I assume you're saving all the replaced hardware.
Personally I wouldn't replace any hardware unless it was totally worn out. New stuff tends to make the amp look "too new".
My 2cents,
PG

[phantomman]

Tha's one clean sumbitch, CWR......don' look like it's been diddled with a-tall.

Hay-ell......doesn't look like it's ever been opened since its "incept" date back in '63!

Reminds me of my old '64 Concert.

[ampdan]

Very nice man. It's interesting to see the 4 red(brown?) capacitors in the preamp. I've never seen those in a Fender. They are period correct, and are in the Gibson amps of that time. Congrats.

[Kap'n]

Very nice man. It's interesting to see the 4 red(brown?) capacitors in the preamp. I've never seen those in a Fender.

I've seen a few, but not many.

[cwilliamrose]

I don't think the chassis had ever been out of the cabinet until I sent it to Dave Hayes. I've had this amp since '66 and I never took it out and it was never repaired by anyone. It may have been worked on before I got it but it was only 2-3 years old at that point so that's a little unlikely.

Those red/brown caps are pretty close to the actual color (on my monitor anyway). I'm glad I posted the photos, otherwise I would not have known there was something unusual about the components in this amp. Do you suppose they did that because of a parts shortage or did all '63 VVs have these type caps? It's in the signal path so is this going to effect the amp's tone compared to the normally used parts?

And PG;

Yeah, I'm concerned about the look of the new parts. I want to get rid of any rust but the oxidized surface of the old nickel plating looks really cool. I wonder if I could simulate that with an weak acid wash? I have a bunch of crappy replacement parts I could experiment on. My fear is I do more than effect the surface, the plating is only about .0005" thick. I'm not 100% sold on making the metal parts look new -- the ones that I replaced so far do kind'a stick out and draw attention. I will absolutely hold on to anything I remove. I have all the parts Dave replaced (I should probably add those to the photo gallery).

I see AB1763 stamped in ink on everything. I assume that's the date stamp (17th week, 1963) but what's the "AB" mean?

I bumped the photos up one size, I had them set at medium and I think large is better. If you guys have issues with the large ones, I’ll change ‘em back. The full size photos are in my pBase gallery.

Thanks for all the nice comments.........Bill

[ziess]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Fender did all kinds of things with parts. A brownface amp from '61/'62 will, for example, likely still have a few yellow Astron signal caps mixed with the blue molded ones that yours predominately has.
If you've owned it since 1966 and it's not been worked on since you've owned it then, in my humble opinion, it's unlikely that they're replacements.

Oh, is it just me or are those Oxfords the coolest looking speakers in any Fender amp.

How does the beast sound? That's the important bit.

[cwilliamrose]

I agree, those almost have to be original parts based on the history I have with this amp.

As for the sound;

Well, it's as I remember it from years ago. I do think it's a tad quieter, at least on the BRIGHT channel. The NORMAL channel is noisier for some reason compared to the BRIGHT channel. By noise, I really mean the hum you hear at high gains.

This amp has three issues I'm working on;

1) The treble pot in the NORMAL channel is very scratchy, it has been for a long time. In our efforts to use as much as possible of the original parts, this was cleaned but not replaced. Now that I've had a chance to experience it, I think I may have to change it. Dave says that once it's set, it shouldn't add any noise to the signal but it's painful to change settings! The treble pot in the BRIGHT channel has a little hiccup around 5 but it's not too bad. The other pots are fine.

2) No reverb. Dave tested this when he had the amp in his shop and it was perfect. I suspect a cable is bad, or maybe a transducer. I was going to get into it last night but I uploaded gut shots instead.

3) At least one speaker craps out a medium-high gains. It sounds like the coil is bottoming out or rubbing hard. Or maybe it's just dirt, the amp was pretty dirty everywhere expect for the chassis. At more normal (for me) levels, I don't hear it at all but I have spent very little time playing through it so far. I intend to re-cone rather than replace if needed.

So, to answer your question about how it sounds -- great, so far. I’ll let you know as I deal with it's remaining issues.

Maybe you can help me understand this hum the amps all seem to have. The GROUND switch was there originally to help deal with the hum. Now that the cord has been replaced with a three-prong grounded cord, should that switch even be active anymore? The RI VVs have that switch but it isn’t hooked up (according to the manual anyway). Mine still is and it does still change the hum depending on it’s position. Seems to me, once you have a grounded cord, there’s only one correct choice for chassis ground...Bill

[Erock_Germany]

Oh, I'm sportin' some wood. Guess I'm getting old when something like that gets me excited.

Friggin' killer.......

[ampdan]

I didn't mean to imply those capacitors weren't original, they very well could be. Like I said, they are period correct. I am curious about the white/blue stripe pvc wire, going to the ground buss. Is that the grounds for the new electrolytics? Why not reuse the existing wire from the old ones? That's what I do, IMHO it's much neater. Anyway, killer amp.

[cwilliamrose]

I saw those wires but didn't know what to make of them. It looks like they were there before I had the work done. This image was sent by Dave to show the leaking caps -- before he had done anything AFAIK. Those wires are there and yes, they aren't what you would expect from the factory or even from repair work done in the 60s. I will look at my own images at home taken before shipment to confirm this.......Bill