Hi
I just got a used 57 twin RI. I was wondering what the sonic changes are when you change the preamp AX7's for AT7's. More clean headroom or less.....
Hi
I just got a used 57 twin RI. I was wondering what the sonic changes are when you change the preamp AX7's for AT7's. More clean headroom or less.....
I sometimes use a 12AT7 for the first pre-amp tube in my 5F6A clone. Gives more headroom, and it at least to my ears (and in this amp), there's more string definition, but less 'ballsy'. Won't hurt your amp to try and see how it works for you. Currently I have a 5751 in the first stage.
im not 100 % certain but i think the 12at7 is best used for replacing a tube in the driver stage of an amp .
i dont think its a tube for the tone stage and if you did it may make your amp sound a bit brighter but it might not sound very good .
my thoughts are if your looking for tone replace the tubes with new old stock you wont go wrong .. i have this amp and was pleased with the sound but ive got tubes from the 50s so ive replaced them .
the 12at7 , 6201 , ecc81 is not for the most part used for the tone of an amp yes it can be used to replace a 12ax7 - try it like jam mentioned it wont hurt a thing but i dont believe you will like what it will do to the overall tone
fender used the 12at7 in the reverb drive stage and also the phase inverter to drive the push , pull output stage - its a durable funtion tube ..
I dont get it. I read this somewhere, maybe in a Aspen Pittman or Gerald Weber book that the 12AT7 isn't a "tone tube". Then it gets repeated like gospel. So what quality of the 12AT7 makes it suitable only for higher current applications, but not in other pre-amp spots? Have you compared curves or what? Is there something wrong with my ears that I actually like it at times in my amp? Tone is subjective, I'd suggest trying it with an open mind and see if it works. In fact, try other 12xx tube types too, 12AY7, 5751 etc. It's about finding what works for you.
ive got a tweed deluxe 5e3 from 1955 and right before a gig i determined something did not sound well . checked my tubes on a tube tester and at that point i found i had a bad 12ax7 tube . so went to my tube caddy for a replacement and i found another 12ax7 but it was missing a pin so i used a 12at7 .
thats for the most part how ive made my conclusion and ive not tried this on any other amp just this deluxe . went and pulled a 12ax7 from my 1958 super and used that untill i was able to land another replacement .
i guess thats how ive calculated my conclusion
g6120,
I agree that in some amps the 12AT7 may not be the best choice, just as you found you didn't like it in your 5E3. I've always felt the amp and guitar work together, and what might work well for someone with a particular guitar and amp, will sound bad for someone elses setup. For example, I used to own a rather dark sounding ES-335 (I think it was 1978, with the coil tap and Nashville type bridge). I got involved with a horn band that didnt mic any of the rhythm section. I ended up getting a UL SFSR Fender, which with that particular guitar sounded great, but sounded like crap with anything else. So with the original posters Tweed Twin, which might not be a bright sounding amp anyway, and if he's got a rather dark sounding ax, the 12AT7 might be a great choice, but with a Strat it might sound awful.
The only diff is the gain factor. 12ay7's 12at7's 5751's 12ax7's are pretty much the same tube with the exception of the gain factor. An at7 will be fine. I've run 'em in my 5e3 with no problem. FWIW you can use 10 different tubes (12at7's for example) of the same type and have 10 different sounds. I'd use ay7 in v1 and v2 if it was my amp.
You may lose some volume with the 12AT7 if/when the amp is maxxed out since the 12AX7 is a "hotter" tube, gain-wise. But the 12AT7 will prolly deliver a more realistic tweed tone, and the loss of some volume at the extreme top end is not likely to be noticeable. I've used 12AT7s as a V1 in AB763s of various persuasions -- they always put a smile on my face.
HTH
After reading the manual it's actually AY7's that are the best replacement for a different level of power. I'm to believe they came that way originally because it mentions in the manual about the low power 50's sound....
V1 and V2 are input guitar but V3 and V4?
Off the top of my head, tonestack driver and phase inverter but I'll have to check the schematic.
I love when folks pass on the mis information that a 12at7 is not a good tone tube! I guess someone better tell that to my two great sounding Harmon Kardon stereo preamps that each use 4 12at7s.
I guess under that train of thinking, a 12au7 is gonna sound even poorer than a 12at7?
12AT7's sound great....in a circuit designed for them.
They're often less than satisfying when used inappropriately.
Just like a 12AX7 sounds like ass as V1 in a 5E3 Deluxe.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
12AV7s can sound great in a tweed too.
I like a 12AX7 in V2 with a 12AY7 when I'm playing Fenders and a 12AV7 for my Gretsches.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke