Contemplating Retirement

[Offshore Angler]

I'm thinking it might be time to step down. After years of gigging it's getting to be a real pain-in-the-ass. Loss of venues - so many of the great music clubs have closed in the last few years. Places where I could go in, ask for some dates and get jobs are lost to the past.

The price of gas and gear is so high now that it seems almost every gig we do now is a break-even proposition.

I'm over 50, and let's face it, we just don't resonate with the 20-somethings that go out and support bands.


I've buried two drummers and a guitar player. A lot of the other people I played with frequently have either stopped playing altogether or scaled things way back.


Time was when I could play three nights a week with two or three differnt bands. Now we have to scratch and claw for every low paying gig we can get. It's just stopped being fun. Times have changed, and live music audiences are dwindling.

All of the local places that still do well with live music are either no-pay or even pay-to-play.

When I was young, we would play all night, get loaded up ( both gear and ourselves) and head out for an all-night diner for the after gig breakfast. Now, we're just tired and sore.

Tell me again why I'm doing this?

[Mesotech]

If you're doing it for the pay, then IMHO yo're doing it for the wrong reason. That's just my opinion though.

Yes, gas is expensive, and gear is even more-so. I figure I will pay for gas anyway, either to play or to go watch someone else play. Gear is also something I'll continue to aquire, just because I love tinkering with it. I can respect your reasoning about both of these, but not to the degree that it's worth giving up something I love as a concession.

Feeling tired and old is something I'm begining to also feel. I'm to be 45 in a few days, and feel it more every day. Not that 45 is old, it's simply a lot older than I was when I was 21. Something you might want to consider is in addition to playing (when you WANT to), you might use your experience to mentor (or manage) other younger bands. I'm sure you have a lot to share, and a few of these younger folks might appreciate it, even if the majority won't.

[TommyJ]

You do it for the love of playing live...The money helps but.
Really to me there's nothing like a live performance,and you
are rite the scene has changed,even the old stables around here
just play the same joints over and over.
It's a Hip Hop Dance scene,with a DJ.. Much cheaper and lotsa
BOOOBBB''SSSS..
I know it sucks but thats about the sum around here..
I live in the Nashville area, it's halarious to see rednecks
loving it,but it's true..LOL!!!!!

[stratcat62]

+1

I'm 60, working harder to get gigs for less money. Hurricanes and kareoke have cost us a goodly number of venues. I have always hated the hustle for gigs and the loading in and out but I just can't help myself, I am a musical whore.

[Wilko]

It's hard to do, but you gotta make your own gigs.

There are plenty of places that CAN have live music, they just don't do it because it's a pain in the ass.

AND

There are plenty of people that WOULD go out to see some live music but they don't do it because it's a pain in the ass. Expensive loud clubs full of kids and hassle.

Make it easy on some place. Find a cool little bar or restaurant that hasn't been having music (you can usually see the remnants of a riser/stage like area) and ask 'em if you can play there semi regularly for a door take or something. Advertise it yourself and you just may be surprised how many people will start to come out to have fun with you.

[Kap'n]

Gigs are where you find them. A friend just convinced a local winery to have him play acoustic on the weekends while folks are doing the tour.

[patocaster]

Clearly there are folks here that can relate to what you’re saying and I am among them. My first paying gig was in 1971 at a small bar and I got paid $40! I was over the moon. I thought this is it – I’m doing what I love and they’re even paying me for it. I think someone in this forum pointed out that we are still playing these gigs for the same amount of money. And in this economy our pay is not going increase but heck, that’s not what we do it for anyway. Sure, it can be frustrating but there is still something to be said for electricity of playing in front of people and the camaraderie of being in a band. And if one person appreciates it, then for me it’s well worth the time, gas and energy to get out and play. Have I convinced you yet?

I had a dream many years ago that I was an old man and I survived a nuclear holocaust, which left me as the only guitar-playing dude around. I had folks, young and old sitting at my knee, craving to hear a familiar tune. So I didn’t make fame or fortune playing music, but the main thing for me is that I’m still doing it and I don’t see myself stopping, Happily, it’s a lifelong affliction.

-Pat

[ES350]

It depends on what you want...I recently quit a situation that had me playing and touring on a very regular basis although it had become a PITA. Now I have time to spend practicing what I want to play and I will find the players and record it when I'm ready. I am 50 and I remember playing 25-28 nights a month locally back in the 90's---that's all over for a lot of reasons...

[pc]

I think a lot about this. I'm 40, and I know the "visceral" connection--the connection that really has nothing to do with music or playing--that used to exist between me onstage at 25 years old and the young 20-somethings in the crowd is long gone now.

On the flip side, I'm a 40-year-old in a band comprised entirely of 26-year-olds. I get "cred" imputed to me I suppose.

Assuming arguendo that I'm still playing with these same guys in 10 years, that cred will have gone by the wayside. What will never leave is my musical connection to the crowd, the other musicians, etc.

I mention this because nobody comes to bars for a musical connection. They come to hang out together, drink and dance. If the band is good, fantastic, but they don't much care. I don't play any of the clubs where people just go to hear live music.* So I think it therefore is more difficult to get over that "cred" hump as you age. Most people my age are at home with their families on a weekend night; therefore I'm always playing to a new crop of 20-somethings.

(* There are no such clubs for Rock band anymore in this area. My jazz trio does play in a club or two that are just about the music, and age really isn't a factor in that genre. However, it's obviously not quite the same energy level as playing in a thrashin' rock/blues/pop/whatever band.)

I don't book this band, but you're right, it's an absolute hassle to keep up with it. Often as soon as you get a niche in a club, the management changes and wants to "rethink" things. Ugh.

The flipside is that like others in this thread, I can't not play. So there it is.

[frank thomson]

OA, it gets old sometimes, i'll give you that.

i quit doing it for over 10 years after i realized i'd never *make it*.

nowadays, i just do it for fun.

i really like playing dive bars b/c it seems like we're appreciated there.
no poseurs, no emos, no 'tudes....playing for people from 21 to 71.

if you think you're tired of it, then i'd say quit.
life is too short to do something you don't like.

...just don't sell your gear yet

[Kap'n]

OA, it gets old sometimes, i'll give you that.

i quit doing it for over 10 years after i realized i'd never *make it*.

nowadays, i just do it for fun.

i really like playing dive bars b/c it seems like we're appreciated there.
no poseurs, no emos, no 'tudes....playing for people from 21 to 71.

if you think you're tired of it, then i'd say quit.
life is too short to do something you don't like.

...just don't sell your gear yet

I'm with Frank 100%...except, I never quit because I didn't think I'd make it. I knew I'd never "make it" and as a result spent all of my twenties going to school. When I finished school when I was 30, I started doing it purely because I wanted to. I take time off for a few months here and there, I gig acoustic when I'm tired of dealing with the the band thing, gig electric when I'm not, go to jams - all purely because I want to.

Take a break for a bit. It's summer - go fishing. Heck, take some of that time off, and actually go and see a band for a chnge. But as Frank said, don't sell your stuff yet.

[Offshore Angler]

" If I only had a dollar
for every song I've sung.
And all the times I had to play
while people sat there drunk.
You know I 'd catch the next plane home
back to where I live.
Oh, Lord, I'm stuck in Lodi again."

Seems like it's really hitting home these days.

[melody]

Hey Iffin your hangin up your Tele I get the OLE GUYS RULE tshirt.. Go fishing clear your mind and play your TELE!!!!

[Folk_guy]

OA, The live music scene here in Rochester (and I'm sure in other areas too) is getting pretty lame. It's tough to find places that are set up for a band, and most of them want to do the DJ thing.

I've heard you do the acoustic duo thing (and do it pretty well, and it looked like you were having a good time too), I would think that it would be easier to find venues as an acoustic act, than trying to find places for the full band with drums, bass, etc.

I've been rehearsing with a Big Band and that's been impossible to book lately. Best we could come up with was playing on the patio at Nola's Barbeque for free last summer. There is a huge waiting list to get into the Jazz (and other local) Festivals as a local band. I've pretty much gotten out of everything now except for playing at church every week.

[cooltone]

It's all about the songwriting and recording for me now. I 'quit' the bar scene 4 years ago and some aspects I do miss (being on stage with a band).
The up side of what I'm doing now is the occasional coffee house gig with an audience that's as 'grown up' as I am. It's refreshing.

[Wilko]

I've been playing witha singer/songwriter and am now playing very grown-up gigs.

You guys know that the hot thing these days for real musicians is a network of "house concerts" all across the country. I'm doing one coming up in the middle of may. You make tons of money and the people are there because you are, and they pay a lot to hear good music. It's amazing.

http://www.concertsinyourhome.com/?g...FR8YagodPXSvew

http://www.houseconcerts.com/

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001002.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_concert

[pc]

California and Ohio cannot possibly be in the same country.

Not mocking you Rick, that looks like a cool thing and the very idea you mention about people being there purely to experience live music and songwriting is completely awesome.

And there is no such thing here in the Mid'o'west, even for us grown-ups.

Like most things that start in Cali, we'll start seeing those popping up in about three to six years. (California cool usually leapfrogs completely over us and hits NYC and the east coast first, then trickles down and back over to us).

[Wilko]

It's not at all limited to CA.

I know people who play all over the country this way. Even in the mid west.

One guy I know (steve Poltz --poltz.com click "on with the shows" link for a list containing many house concerts all over the place)just played (jan/feb) in Dayton and Cleveland and possibly come other dates in OH as well. Some shows were clubs, some house concerts.

[NTBluesGuitar]

The live music scene here is still pretty good.

OSA, you could always come back to DFW.

[Kap'n]

There's a "house concert" movement here in CT, too. Pretty much restricted to singer/songwriter solo/duo types.

Folk Guy, I don't remember the Rochester scene being really cool c. 1990 either. I mean, I guess there was one, of sorts, if you liked hair metal. But unless you played that, or the crap on Brother Weeze's show, you were pretty much sunk in town. The closest thing I could find to 'cool' in that town was a blues jam in the 19th ward. Sort of a bizarre scene...the only time I've ever seen the entire audience be black for a bunch of white guys playing the blues. A great time, though.

[Wilko]

yeah, definitely not for louder band type gigs, but it's great for quieter acts.

Some of the cool bands are doing some shows out here. Hot CLub of Cowtown are a pretty well know act out of Austin that are doing a house concert near here soon.

[pc]

Cool. I couldn't find much on a Google search for that stuff here in Ohio, but you're right that there are a smattering. So far all I could find were solo acts, but again, that makes sense as a new venue for the singer/songwriter.

I emailed a guy I know that writes for one of the local arts newspapers--told him to look into it. Maybe if he writes an article, the idea might get more speed here.

[Kap'n]

Be aware that the "house concert" is not without controversy.

House concerts are not subject to the same laws as regular venues regarding things like fire codes, etc. There's a very gray line between inviting a few friends over to your house and regularly scheduling performances with a 'donation/ticket price' for people you don't know. When does it go from a gathering of friends to a true concert, and become subject to the laws governing them?

[boobtube21]

I would think as soon as you start charging money at the door.

[Guitar_Mc]

California and Ohio cannot possibly be in the same country.

Not mocking you Rick, that looks like a cool thing and the very idea you mention about people being there purely to experience live music and songwriting is completely awesome.

And there is no such thing here in the Mid'o'west, even for us grown-ups.

Like most things that start in Cali, we'll start seeing those popping up in about three to six years. (California cool usually leapfrogs completely over us and hits NYC and the east coast first, then trickles down and back over to us).

Actually pc,

I've heard of these (sort of). My uncle had invited me to go to something like this in Zanesfield Oh (near Bellefontaine). It was set up in a pole barn (a nice one that was set up for these events). They had them monthly (probably still do). Lots of wine & fancy dishes served.

There wasn't anything on the internet. It was only passed around through friends via fax & phone calls (as far as I was aware).

I was kind of excited about going to check it out, then my uncle got a divorse, the whole situation kind of changed, and I never made it.

But they do exist around here.

Edit: oops, now I see you found some signs of it locally.

[Kap'n]

I would think as soon as you start charging money at the door.

That would include most house concerts, except they call them "donations." I understand that some larger house concerts even print 'invitations'(aka tickets).


An article from the 5/21/06 NYT on House Concerts at a local venue.

They don't get into it much, but the venue is a former church, and I believe the pews are still there. Not exactly somebody's living room.

[Guitar_Mc]

I wonder how long it will be until the "house concert" thing will be under attack for song licensing. I believe bars pay a fee so that they can hire bands to play. I doubt hosts of house concerts do.

[Kap'n]

Another excellent point.

If you search for "ascap" on this board, Fezz and PC have posted a lot about how copyright law works for performance.

However.....if you, as a singer/songwriter-type are the holder of your own copyrights, and perform them exclusively at a house concert, are you breaking the law?

[Folk_guy]

Folk Guy, I don't remember the Rochester scene being really cool c. 1990 either.

You're right it's been a long time since the live music scene in Rochester has been any good, but in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s it was better than it is now. I used to be able to go out any night of the week and find a band playing somewhere, I don't think you can do that here anymore.

[Vics]

I use to play full time from '70 thru '82. Then played weekends only from '94 thru '96 and haven't played live since then. While it was all great fun it really felt good to call it a day. Now I just work on original material with a buddy of mine for fun and that's fine with us.

At this point in my life I wouldn't want it any other way.

[refin]

Been away from it so long,it would be nice for a 2 or 3 nights a week gig........

[pc]

The irony for me is that now that I have good reason to slow down--3 kids, etc.--I'm finally in a musical situation that's what I wanted 15 years ago.

The rock band is playing between 7 and 10 times a month and the spinoff jazz trio is playing 2 to 6 times a month. That's a lot of dough (which I need, c.f. three kids. ) and of course a lot more gear hauling, gas miles, etc. Right now I wouldn't trade it for the world.

[Wilko]

ANd a good set of tax write-offs for buying cool gear.

[pc]

Heh, definitely that.

[JM3]

Guy I work with dad is a drummer and 91

he retired this year

[JM3]

And one of my friends plays guitar for Shania Twain

He does OK but the pay really stinks. Has to leave home for touring to make abuck

doesnt sound too bad

[Mikey]

OSA,
I know what your talking about. At 58 yo, I get that way too.
BUT, if I didn't do this stuff, I'd be stuck at home every night either doing mundane chores to keep the wifeynagging down or watchin' the stupid, insideous tube.
I need the bands so I can hang with friends, play some music, get a night out to have fun, laugh with my band buddies etc., and feel and act way younger than I am.
Man, we need to just go out, grab a couple PBRs or LB lites and shoot the shit a little bit.

Hang in there buddy, this too shall pass.

[Rickenjangle]

You're right it's been a long time since the live music scene in Rochester has been any good, but in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s it was better than it is now. I used to be able to go out any night of the week and find a band playing somewhere, I don't think you can do that here anymore.

Sure you can...as long as you want to see The Taint, Skycoasters, Nik 'n' the Nice Guys, or Uncle Plum...

(for those of you who are from out-of-town ...that ain't a typo. One of the biggest bands around here used to be called "Tickle the Taint" and is now called "The Taint.")

How Quaint...

[Kap'n]

Nik and the Nice Guys are still around?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Rickenjangle]

Well, actually, I'm not totally sure. But then again, Nik is a loose affiliation of bands put together for specific events - more of a collective than a band.