Fishman Aura pedal

[Kap'n]

Picked up a Fishman Aura pedal for "Orchestra" (OM) sized guitars yesterday. It's a pretty useful pedal, IMHO.

There's three knobs, a phase switch (to assist with feeback problems) and a footswitch

The footswitch is kind of funny. This is a pedal you leave ON. I guess it's to A/B with the peizo sound, or something. Maybe if you use it live - some songs with a band (piezo only), and some solo with the pdeal. Like if you were Neil Young, or something.

The knobs are a volume control, 16-position selector switch and a balance knob to blend between the Aura sound and the straight piezo sound.

The Aura technology is pretty interesting - it's kinda like modelling, but not really.

The 'images' are of sixteen different OM-sized guitars, and correct the sound between what the guitar sounds like with a mic and what the piezo picks up. (they have different pedals for different guitar types).

It's NOT designed to make your guitar sound like another guitar. It's designed to make the piezo signal from your guitar sound like your guitar sounds with a mic.

Of the sixteen, one's really quite good, three more are OK, eight are middling, and four or so are horrendous with bizarre spikes and phase issues that make my guitar sound like a resonator in a metal tank. Of course, if I was using a different guitar, the ones that work would be different, and the ones that sound horrible might even be the best.

I found the best ones using a trick I found in one of the reviews. I plugged the guitar into a looper first, Aura second, made a loop, and tested each position without the interference of sound from the guitar. Once I found the best ones, I A/Bed the loop/Aura with the unplugged guitar.

I suspect the one I'm using was probably made with my exact guitar, a Larrivee OM-05 with a Fishman Matrix pickup. It's not like a rare model. Others, I'm sure would be Martin OM-18 & OM-28, whatever the Taylor mahogany and rosewood models are, etc. I suspect they concentrated on guitars in the $1K-$2Kish range, as that's probably the target market. People who spend $500 or less aren't going to spring $200 for a preamp, and people who spend over $2K would buy the Aura Blender with exact specified model images, if they decided to go this route.

I did some recording with the one best preset (I don't see any reason to use any other), and it works quite well, certainly for the demo-quality stuff I'm doing. If it was for a real CD, I'd use a mic, obviously.

Once I get the demos together, I'll have them up on my website.

In live performance, you can use the blender to add back some piezo to tame feedback, or if you just like the sound better.

Well worth the $$, IMHO, especially with the Music123 15% off coupon they're offering right now.. ;-)

[NeoFauve]

Cool.
I mentioned, awhile back, overhearing a guy try one of these, and it was the most acoustic guitar sounding plugged in sound I'd heard.

The setup he was trying was Fishman end to end: a new Martin w/a Fishman p'up & preamp, the Aura pedal, into a Loudbox.

I'm curious to hear your results.

[Kap'n]

Maybe what I should do when I get a few minutes, is to make up a five second loop or something, and post it straight in (no pedal) and each of the sixteen different settings, just so you can hear what I mean. This technology absolutely does NOT transform your $200 Art and Lutherie into a pre-war Herringbone.

Maybe I should take votes as to which is the best one.

[Guitar_Mc]

Maybe what I should do when I get a few minutes, is to make up a five second loop or something, and post it straight in (no pedal) and each of the sixteen different settings, just so you can hear what I mean. This technology absolutely does NOT transform your $200 Art and Lutherie into a pre-war Herringbone.

Maybe I should take votes as to which is the best one.

I'd be interested in hearing the different settings.

I wonder how much it would help an electric with a piezo pickup to sound more like an acoustic. Or even an electric run through an acoustic simulator.

[Kap'n]

It's designed to work best with Fishman's stock in trade - piezo undersaddle transducers.

Essentially what they do is take a guitar with a UST, and mic it, and use computer modeling to create an algorithm to match the signals.

So, the closer your guitar is to a particular model they created, the better it will sound. Modelling technology, but a very different application than a POD or a Variax.

With the pedal version, they use more generic models or as they call them, "images." If you shell out for the higher end versions, they have models based on specific things, like a Indian Rosewood/Adirdondak Bourgeois OMC miced by a AKG 414, or a D-28GE, or whatever.

If you really want to follow this to it's logical extension, you can send your guitar to Fishman, and they'll make a custom image specific for your own guitar and one of their standard mics.

It's not designed for magnetic pickups. And an electric through an acoustic simulator has the potential to sound pretty crappy. Just like my Larrivee sounds like a$$ through some of the images.

[Guitar_Mc]

If you really want to follow this to it's logical extension, you can send your guitar to Fishman, and they'll make a custom image specific for your own guitar and one of their standard mics.

I would think ultimately you could record your piezo signal while recording with your mic at the same time & send it digitally.

It would be interesting to look at the harmonic content of those two signals. The same frequencies should be present, the difference between the two sounds is probably just how much of each frequency is present. I'm sure it is much more complicated than an EQ, but then again...

[Kap'n]

I would think ultimately you could record your piezo signal while recording with your mic at the same time & send it digitally.

It would be interesting to look at the harmonic content of those two signals. The same frequencies should be present, the difference between the two sounds is probably just how much of each frequency is present. I'm sure it is much more complicated than an EQ, but then again...

I would think so too. There may be more things to the signal chain, somehow.

On the second point, there's probably envelope things going on, too.

[Gravity Jim]

Sounds kinda of like Antares Mic Modeler: tell it what mic you're using, and what mic you'd like it to sound like, and as long as Antares has impulse models of both mics, you get a close approximation.

It's no substitute for a vintage U87, but it is a very interesting and usable tool.

[Kap'n]

Sounds kinda of like Antares Mic Modeler: tell it what mic you're using, and what mic you'd like it to sound like, and as long as Antares has impulse models of both mics, you get a close approximation.

It's no substitute for a vintage U87, but it is a very interesting and usable tool.

I was kind of hoping it could make my crystal harp mic sound like a Neumann U47.



I'm betting it could do the opposite.

[Gravity Jim]

Yeah, obviously, you're not going to get a U87 from the input of an SM58... a weird approximation, maybe. but you CAN get a really good SM58 starting with a Shure KSM32, for example. A good, wide-range mic can produce a whole lot of other "mics" pretty convincingly.

Still.. as much as I enjoyed using it during the review, I didn't buy it.

[NeoFauve]

I'd be pretty excited if one could just make my piezo'd Yairi just sound less piezo'd, more like a wooden instrument.
I wouldn't really expect it to sound like it's unplugged self though.

Your explanation is different than reviews I've read.

My impression was that the "images" were more to optimize whatver style guitar you'd be using, rather than specific brand dreads and 000's and so on.

Still, I was pretty encouraged by what I heard that day.
If I ever start playing out again, I'd be real interested.

Piezos are handy things, but they've kind of skewed what some people, especially players who mainly play electric, refer to as an "acoustic sound."

[Kap'n]

My impression was that the "images" were more to optimize whatver style guitar you'd be using, rather than specific brand dreads and 000's and so on.

They've got a bunch of different pedals, one for each basic body type, and each one has sixteen different images in it, and you buy the body type your favored instrument is. I'm guessing, based on the sixteen most popular instruments in that body size. So, sixteen nylon strings, sixteen dreadnaughts, sixteen OMs, sixteen Auditoriums.....you get a lot of different guitars. Based on how bad some of the images are, I imagine, if you use the wrong body type pedal, you might run into some real issues. In some ways, it's a testament to how powerful the technology is to make it sound right as well.

Piezos are handy things, but they've kind of skewed what some people, especially players who mainly play electric, refer to as an "acoustic sound."

I think most non-musicians (and many musicians) don't know what a good acoustic sounds like. Otherwise, nobody would ever buy an Ovation.

[elicross]

These Aura pedals have increased my desire to have an acoustic-electric.

[Guitar_Mc]

I've got a stupid question...

Has anyone here tried using an EQ pedal to get a more mic'd sound out of a piezo acoustic pup?

[Guitar_Mc]

If you really want to follow this to it's logical extension, you can send your guitar to Fishman, and they'll make a custom image specific for your own guitar and one of their standard mics.

They already offer this.
http://www.fishmanaura.com/learn/lar...eo6.asp?type=2

You can send them a recording of your guitar and they'll prgram it in.
Or you can send them your guitar.

[Wilko]

I think most non-musicians (and many musicians) don't know what a good acoustic sounds like. Otherwise, nobody would ever buy an Ovation.

I had the typical 70s love/hate thing with Ovations. For a long time, they were the only brand that was easily available and could sound good plugged in.

Lately--with the swarm of Taylors in the market--I've come to appreciate the sound of the Ovation more. They have shit for resale value, but some of them things sound real good acoustically. A lot better than I keep thinking in my head. WHat I've found is that it;s not the sound that's so bad, it's the feel. The player gets no feedback, but the guitar projects like a freakin' cannon.

On the Fishman thing--and Piezos in general--I completely hate them and bought what I think is a much better solution than the Aura. Also made my Fishman, I have the Elypse Blender. Has an under saddle piezo and a small mic on a tiny gooseneck inside the guitar.

[Wilko]

I've got a stupid question...

Has anyone here tried using an EQ pedal to get a more mic'd sound out of a piezo acoustic pup?

All piezos need a preamp of some kind. Many guitars have that built-in. usually with a small graphic EQ or like taylors, a two, or three-way EQ.

For outboard there are several including Fishman and L.R. Baggs that make simple volume and three band EQ.

Back in the 70s I had a device(still have it) called The Notch that cut a specified sized notch from a selected point on the curve.

[Kap'n]

I have the Elypse Blender. Has an under saddle piezo and a small mic on a tiny gooseneck inside the guitar.

I was considering a number of things, including putting a K&K in my Bourgeois. But try as I might, I can't convince myself to drill holes in it, and bring it into a bar.

Seeing as I already had a Acoustic Matrix pickup in the Larrivee, I figured this was the least invasive, least expensive way to try to improve the sound. And if it didn't work, I could return it, and try something else.

To be honest, the Acoustic Matrix wasn't horrible, but I knew I could do lots better.

[Wilko]

I went with the Ellipse because there's no more drilling. It is stuck to the inside of the guitar top and all controls are reached through the soundhole!
Use all mic, all pickup or blend, phase and volume controls.