I need to relearn a bunch of old stuff from a band I was in, and it's all on cassette, and some of the stuff is a bit pitchy - I am hoping to NOT have to retune my guitar for every song that is a bit off...
So - I have Cool Edit Pro 1.2 and SoundForge v. 6 - I know they have pitch correction algorithms, but I was wondering--- will this work to raise or lower a whole stereo track about 1/4 to 1/2 step?
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
You've been watching too much AI....
I would imagine you could do the pitch change with the software, but given the likely age of the cassettes, there's probably a lot of warble from tape stretching and an older machine playing it back.
That's tougher to correct.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Nope.
Pitch correction is for monophonic sources only. It even freaks out if you get a harmonic that's a little too loud in the signal. You can speed up and slow down a stereo mix (without changing the pitch) pretty effectively now.
But if it's cassette, the tempos will be off as well. You need to speed/slow the track with the appropriate pitch change as well.
If you've got an old 424 lyring around, you can do the pitch/tempo change on that, and dump it to digital.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Yep... that's the only way I know of to fix the pitch and tempo of a stereo mix: analog tape speed control.
You guys are the cat's pajamas - thanks for saving me the time it would take to discover that on my own...
I guess that I'll have to tune up a couple of guitars for a week so that I can learn the songs.
I feel like one of those aging hippies (not that I ever was a hippie in the first place) that goes around saying "we're getting the band back together, maaaaaaan!"
It'll be a lot of fun, though - I was never more fulfilled musically than when I played with them.
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Actually, not entirely true.Originally Posted by Gravity Jim
There actually are a several pieces of software out there that will do exactly what you ask--change the pitch of a mix without altering the tempo.
The "Musician's CD Player" software or some such little widget from Kagi software will do it, as will others. Kagi made one called "The Amazing Slowdowner" which did tempo changes without changing the pitch, but the slightly better model will do both.
One of my software plugins for ProTools will do it as well, and far better than the Kagi software.
I have used both of these to do exactly what you suggest--raise or lower the pitch of source material so it falls into a correct key. As a for instance, a band I was in wanted to do the song "867-5309 (Jenny)", and the original recording by Tommy Tutone is smack-dab between two keys. I had it in a playlist with about 20 other songs I was learning at the same time for this band and it just pissed me off each time it came around, so I pitch corrected it to the right key.
I have also used it in ProTools to change the pitch/key of a stereo mix so I could get a rough idea of what the song might sound like (better or worse) in a different key.
The caveats, of course, are:
1) It does reduce the fidelity significantly. Like Gravity Jim suggests, the Kagi program (and mine is now six years old, so the newer versions might be different) does sum the signal to mono before processing it. The ProTools plugin sounds far better but still isn't something you'd use as a final mix.
2) Naturally, it does pitch shift the drums too since it's doing the whole mix. Not too big a deal but the cymbals start to sound weird.
3) Anything bigger than 3 semitones (a step and a half) of a shift starts to sound completely whacky.
You'll just have to check if there are any plugins for your DAW that will do it, but they are out there.
I've never heard of that, pc! Any software I've ever heard that tried introduced so many artifacts that the resulting track was unusable.
Thanks for the info, Pete. I will google that Kagi.
Also, you've got mail...
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Well, again, it depends on your definition of usable.
Like I said, I used it to test out possible key changes for some of my own demo-mixes when first writing my tunes, so I could give both to my singer and see which key he felt more comfortable with. However, the audio quality was certainly not stellar.
Indeed, the ProTools plugin for Pitch correction actually works fantastic on mono tracks when shifting within a semitone or two, but when you dump a stereo mix into it there are certainly artifacts.
The Kagi software sounded worse, but was meant for exactly what Rickenjangle wanted, more or less. You have an MP3 (ripped from CD, whatever) track that is in F, and your band wants to do it in G. It'll sum the whole thing to mono and pitch correct it without changing the tempo. It works great to practice to, but you sure wouldn't want to burn it back to a CD and listen to it for leisure purposes.
Blech.
No mail yet J. If it doesn't show up here in the next little bit I'll shoot you a better email addy. For some reason the "@thefenderforum" email addresses have been really glitchy lately.
Was the band the cause of the pitch issue, or the tapes?
If the pitch problems are due to the age of the tapes wouldn't the tempo be similarly off?
So if you fixed the pitch with tape speed you'd also correct the tempo.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Wow, yeah. Good point Neo. Hadn't even thought about that since my issues were all with songs on CD being originally recorded "between keys."
pc, that's true... my mindset is so "one artifact and it's junk" that I'd never found anything I thought "worked." But yeah, for playing along and then throwing the file away, I guess you can.
And now I'm seeing your post... like the fable of the six blind men and the elephant, we've all got our way of seeing the problem.
Hmmm.
I could get rid of another piece of languishing gear.
I just happen to have an old Tascam 4-track and IIRC, it has a speed control.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Yeah, fidelity isn't really an issue. We're going to go back to the original DAT to remaster, but just for the sake of me relearning parts, lo-fi is fine. And tempo's not really an issue either.
Yes, also, there are a couple of tracks where my tape got chewed and there is flutter - but again, it's just for me to practice with...
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Yeah, I've got a very dusty one of those in the basement, too.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
RJ- I'll make sure I still have that Tascam.
And if I'm right and it has the pitch control, it's yours for the asking.
I think it's in my crate full o'pedals & gizmos.
My inferior Technics turntable is on its way to hippiebob this afternoon.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Poor hippiebob. Stuck with a ghastly horrible turntable no better than a close 'n' play.
If only someone had warned him.
Now guys....
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
I'm actually looking at getting one of the low-end $150k turntables. It would look really good in my bathroom holding the toilet paper.
I use a free plugin for Winamp called Pacemaker ( http://www.surina.net/pacemaker/ ). Version 2.1 will do pitch, tempo, pitch and tempo, and remove vocals. Again, as with the above mentioned software, the more you change, the worse the audio quality becomes. However, it doesn't sum everything to mono before the changes or during. It works great for moving the key of a song up or down a few notes. It will remember the settings you use for different songs in a playlist so that you only have to set them once, and resets everything to normal for each new song. The end result is, you can put several mp3's into a playlist, adjust individual songs to match standard tuning (or half step down, or whole step up, or whatever you desire), then play the songs in the playlist from start to finish while playing the same guitar without needing to retune (except for open tunings or drop tunings such as Drop D).
The downside is (and this may be the problem identified here in this thread) that since your source was and old cassette that may have become stretched, the pitch and tempo shifts may not be constant or linear. Basically, the song may start out in key and warble all over the place up and down in pitch and tempo throughout the song. In this case, Pacemaker won't be of much help. You would have to rerecord using a variable speed capstan and ride the speed knob during playback to help keep things linear (not an easy task and more than likely not even worth pursuing).
POO DAT!!!
RJ- I found my Tascam. It's a Porta 05, just like this one.
And it does have pitch control.
As an added bonus, I discovered that turning the pitch nearly all that way down makes Bob Dylan singing "To Ramona" sound almost exactly like John Cale.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
You should try tuning Robert Johnson down until he's in open G rather than open A.
It's an eye-opener.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Are you saying I should keep this thing and begin scouring the web for blues cassettes?
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
Neo,
You've got mail.
It's really me, Rickenjangle. In my non-digital life I go by an alias, Johnny B. - never letting on that my true identity has been masked to protect the innocent. ;-)
It's better that way. Plus, I look much better online. Even on a slow day, I can have a three-way...chat with 2 women at one time...
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Hey Gianni! Who ya gettin back witcha?
If, at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.
Two leaps per chasm is fatal!
Mikey, the band was called Burning Icons. We're just going to get together in the studio and see if we still have the creative spark. The 3 of us were the core of the music, and since those days my lyrics have gotten much better. Linda, the lead singer, will not be involved but we have her blessing to carry on...and we might do some occasional reunion gigs. Who knows, might never come to fruition but it's been great to work on relearning the old tunes.
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
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