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Thread: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

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    Forum Member 98tourer's Avatar
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    Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Guys:

    Regarding tube tone thru a Fender solid state combo, has anyone nailed it?

    I'm new at this game, so I'd like some advice on effects pedals:

    Has anyone nailed a "realistic" tube tone thru his Fender solid-state combo? How?

    Are pedal effects applied to a single channel or to all channels?

    What are the pros/cons of running effects straight in versus thru the effects loop?

    I play classic rock and blues. Keeping it simple, how can I cover the music with the fewest number of pedals? Which ones?

    Thanks for your help.

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    Forum Member stratcat55's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    There are a lot of pedals that utilize 12ay7 and 12ax7 preamp tubes like the EH English Muffin. I've always tube amps. Could be just because that's what I'm used to. I've only ever tried my brothers Line 6 and I had a hard time getting what I wanted from it. Too many controls-settings. The best way to get tube sounds is with a tube amp. I wouldn't put anything but tine based effects like echo, flange etc. through the loop. Search for tube based effect pedals and try a bunch out. Try to use tour amp if you can. The only problem is for the price of some of the pedals, you could get a small 5 watt tube amp to play around with or even mic through the PA.

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    Forum Member Chito's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Just my opinion. Why not sell the SS amp and save some for a real tube amp instead of buying pedals trying to emulate a tube sound. Try out a Fender Champion 600 or even an Epiphone Valve Jr.

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    Forum Member kcwm's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    someone made a good analogy about the different between SS and tube.

    He had a nice padded surface at his music shop for doing some guitar work. He pushed down on the hard surface next to the pad and said that playing through a solid state amp was like pressing down onto the hard surface of the counter. It wasn't flexible. So, regardless of how much you pressure you applied, there was no difference in the give of the countertop.

    Then he pushed down on the padded and, of course, the more pressure he applied, the further the pad gave. He likened that to a tube amp. The more you pushed, the more you got from it.

    Was it the best analogy ever? No, but it was very effective and something that I've definitely learned for myself.

    You can emulate the sound of tubes, but you will never get the give and take that you get with tubes. For most people, that's what makes tube amps what they are.

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    Forum Member 98tourer's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Too many controls-settings.
    Yep. My feelings exactly. I'm trying to make this as simple as I can.

    The best way to get tube sounds is with a tube amp.
    Duh! Ya think?

    Search for tube based effect pedals and try a bunch out.
    I've been doing some reading on them. Tonebone and MI Audio make some very popular pedals.

    The only problem is for the price of some of the pedals, you could get a small 5 watt tube amp to play around with or even mic through the PA.
    Point taken.

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    Forum Member 98tourer's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chito View Post
    Just my opinion. Why not sell the SS amp and save some for a real tube amp instead of buying pedals trying to emulate a tube sound. Try out a Fender Champion 600 or even an Epiphone Valve Jr.
    I guess what I really want is the tube tone without the tube hassles.

  7. #7
    Forum Member 98tourer's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    You can emulate the sound of tubes, but you will never get the give and take that you get with tubes.
    What got me on this "tube tone" kick was the Tech 21 Trademark 60 amp that I just bought, then sold within a week. I didn't think that 60-watts would be enough for me, but I could easily have purchased a 60-watt Power Engine for about $150 and doubled my output if I really needed the extra giddyup. What was I thinking?

    What most impressed me about the Tech 21 was that it had great "emulated" tube tone, so much so, you could drive it to its saturation point and get marvelous harmonics. It reacted very dynamically to your picking and playing style, cleaning up as you got softer, then growling as you got more aggressive.

    If I don't find a decent emulator pedal, I just might start looking for another Trademark 60...

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 98tourer View Post
    I guess what I really want is the tube tone without the tube hassles.
    98T:

    What tube hassles?

    Keep a fresh set of power tubes and a couple of preamp tubes handy.
    Find out what fuse the power section of the amp might possibly blow. Keep a screwdriver handy to quickly remove the back off an amp if you've got a vertical-hanging chassis. Make sure your speaker is plugged in securely, if that's an issue.

    I've owned a Vox AC15 that I bought new-used in about '98, and I've had exactly 2 problems with it...well, really only one true problem, I guess...a blown output fuse. Replaced it and it's fine. The other "problem" is that it's a pain to replace the tubes, 'cause you've got to pull the chassis - but I've done it about 3-4 times.

    If you buy a good-quality tube amp and keep it well-maintained, you really won't find any true hassles with it...now, if you get an HRDx or something like that - all bets are off.

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    Forum Member Kap'n's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 98tourer View Post
    I guess what I really want is the tube tone without the tube hassles.
    Like Rickenjangle said - 'what hassles?' Most of the 'hassles' people experience into is in bringing an amp that's been neglected for the past forty years or so, back up to snuff. You think that Trademark 60 is going to be running strong, or even running in 40 years?

    Once you get an old tube amp back up to spec, expect to run it for a long time without much care and feeding, especially if you use good tubes.
    Several guitars in different colors
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  10. #10
    Gravity Jim
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by 98tourer View Post
    I didn't think that 60-watts would be enough for me...
    That was your first mistake.

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    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    The nice thing about the TM60 is it can make nice sounds reminiscent of a variety of tube amps. Some will never notice a difference. Some will, as soon as they see the name badge.
    People who keep them more than a week seem to dig them and appreciate this flexibility.
    They've only existed for about 10 years, so I'm not sure how they'll be in 40 years.

    And as RJ and Kap'n said, there really aren't any hassles involved in a healthy tube amp.

    You might look into some of Tech 21's "SansAmp" gadgets, like the SansAmp Classic, GT2, or the Tri-AC. These aren't really meant to be effects or OD's that you run in front of a normal gtr amp. The more SS preamps that you'd use direct for recording or into a PA. If you can get your Frontman set to sound neutral enough they might work for you. I've used a Tri-AC into a keyboard amp.
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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Fezz, your amp is just a wee bit older than me. And I'm starting to need more and more maintenance. Good thing a tube amp isn't built like me!

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  13. #13
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    It's good to know when you need professional help, from somebody who knows what needs replacing.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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  14. #14
    Forum Member 98tourer's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    If you buy a good-quality tube amp and keep it well-maintained, you really won't find any true hassles with it...now, if you get an HRDx or something like that - all bets are off.
    Yeah, I've read about the inferior design of the HRD. I've also read that the BDR is better, but still not good. For some reason, Fender continues to move these two amps in large numbers.

    Are there any good "entry level" tube amps in the 30-50 watt range? I was looking/reading about the Peavey Classic 30 112 and 50 212. Are they as good as the rep that precedes them?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by 98tourer; 12-07-2007 at 12:21 PM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: Fender Frontman FM-212R: Is Tube Tone Possible?

    The Classic 30 is a true workhorse. And sounds pretty darned good. But if you ask OSA (who keeps a C30 at our practice space and employs a DRRI for live gigs) he'd say C30 good...DRRI great.

    Still, I'd take the C30 over the HRD-anything. All the time. Actually, I owned a Delta Blues (C30 with 15" speaker and footswitchable tremolo) and it was a great little amp, though I sold it because I really only gig with my AC15. But the Delta Blues is a great platform and (IMHO) elevates the C30 platform to just below the DRRI's and AC15's of the world.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

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