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Thread: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

  1. #81
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    I'm done with the mods :)
    I have done the Y surrounding R45, modified C1 all along C56 22uF, did the master volume mod I.e. R25=142 Ohm, C10 unchanged, C11=150pF, R26 pot 250k Audio.

    I added the 5,6nF // to R24.
    and i sounds good to my ears, hummm tasty!
    I didn't changed the clean channel (R9!) because I already liked it that way.

    I didn't do the mods of brightness suggested at the unofficial HRDX page, by Justin Holton, cos I like my bright switch!

    I did change all cathod resistors 100k metal film 1/2 watts, even R57 and R58.

    changed the jacks for switchcraft like, get rid of that chinese jacks!

    No, I'm off to do the cooking for the familly and tonight I play the blues in 12 bars, babe!
    Yeeahhh!

    It was a long process and involved a few volume drops, voltage checks (beware, one had in your pocket!) but I'm done and satisfied.

    Thanks to shrededge, 2Thom, NT Bluesguitar (the 330Ohm!), as well as Alcazar!

  2. #82
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    I'm glad you got it too! But I think that if you do the Y with trimpots on R45, you don't need to change C11. I tried, just C11, just the trimpots and both and liked the trimpots.

    What's the master mod R25?

  3. #83
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Quote Originally Posted by shredgd View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I've just finished some mods to my HRDlx that I want to share.

    I bought my amp used almost a year ago.
    - The first thing I had to change has been the speaker: the original speaker was broken (it produced a kind of distortion when playing bass notes), so I decided to go for a Celestion Vintage 30, as it is my favourite speaker and it is also stock on the limited edition version of this amp. Very helpful to smooth out the sound (I really hate shrill sounds), very useful for distorted tones.
    - Next I changed the tubes, as they still were the stock ones (the amp is from 1998) and I had read about how much the sound of this amp could improve. I didn't want to spend a lot of money, I had just bought the new speaker, so I chose Electro-Harmonix for all the tubes, because I read a lot and they seemed to have the best quality/price ratio. I got a 12AT7 for V3 (the phase inverter), to tame the volume a bit. Compared to the stock tubes, the sound did improve, but it was almost a year ago, so I don't remember. Not a radical change at all, though.

    Now the most recent mods.
    NOTE: I didn't want to mess with taking the board out of the chassis, so I worked on the components side of the PCB. Whenever possible I soldered new components in parallel to the existing ones (for example to increase a cap value or decrease a resistor value). When not, I cut the component pretty near its body, in order to leave a long bit of the component leg to solder the new component to. This way my mods are all easily reversible.

    - I did the reverb mod http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_hol...b.html#dallman. This is a must, IMO. Now the reverb is much more usable.
    - Changed C11 (390p) to 1n. Now more highs are shunt to ground at the end of the drive channel.
    - Changed C1 (47u) to 22u. A bit less bass and gain are fed to the following stages.
    - Added a 10n cap in parallel to C23 (1.5n). More bass to the drive channel.
    - Added a 180k resistor in parallel to R9 (220k) in order to get 100k here. This way less highs are blocked at the beginning of the clean channel (note that as a collateral effect you also get more gain, as we're reducing a resistor between gain stages).
    - Added a 470k resistor in parallel to R12 (130k) in order to get 100k, the standard value in Fender tone stacks. However, after checking again with the Tone Stack Calculator, I realized this mod increases bass and bass-mids (I had inverted the curves in my mind) rather than decreases them. So I might go back to 130k.
    - I tried cutting R105 out, because it looks like an added component to the standard Fender tone stack, but I ended up soldering it again into place, because its role is to tame the bass a bit. I also read in another thread of this forum that it is better to keep it.
    - Unfortunately, I couldn't do the middle pot mod (soldering the wiper to the bass-pot-side leg) because the big C6 cap in front of it isn't letting my soldering-pen tip go there. This is a pity, as that mod allows a better control over the overwelming bass of this amp. Edit: my recent thoughts about this mod in the following thread: http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...d.php?p=448875
    - I added a 22u cap in parallel to C8 (1u). I did this because I noticed the More Drive setting was harsher than the normal Drive. As the More Drive differs from the normal Drive setting by two added cathode bypass caps (C8 and C9) in the last two gain stages, I thought this was the culprit, because I know that a cathode bypass cap smaller than 22u alters the frequency response of the gain stage (the smaller the cap, the more you have an increase in gain only for treble frequencies). C9 was already 22u, so no problems there.
    I'm happy with this mod, now the More Drive is really an extension of the Drive setting. You also get even more maximum gain in More Drive: I like this, because it allows me to keep the drive knob lower, so I have a bigger highs-blocking effect from that pot.

    Most of this mods are inspired from the Blues Deluxe schematic, but also from other Fender amp schematics. I played a Blues Deville 4x10" once at a gig and I think its clean sound was superior to the HRDlx, although it also had different speakers.
    As you can see, the aim of these mods is to reduce the bass/increase the highs in the clean channel and to increase the bass/reduce the highs in the drive channel. This is to cure the harsh sounding drive channel (most of all) and the rather dark sounding clean channel. As most of the circuit is shared between the two channels, I decided to give priority to the clean channel, which is the one I use more because I mostly have pedals for my distorted tones. At the same time, I tried to give the clean channel more sparkle in order to be able to keep the treble and presence knobs lower, as this improves the drive channel tone.
    can any of these mods work on a hot rod deville? or is that a completely different animal?

  4. #84
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Sure they can, the hot rod deville only differs in the power amp section (20W more) and number of speakers.

    Giulio

  5. #85
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Quote Originally Posted by shredgd View Post
    Sure they can, the hot rod deville only differs in the power amp section (20W more) and number of speakers.

    Giulio
    The power transformer and output transformers are different. The bias taps are totally different and have a different voltage they supply. There are different filter caps in there, too.

    But, other than that, the rest of the circuit board is the same.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  6. #86
    Forum Member FrankJohnson's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Sheesh!

    It aint rocket surgery guys !
    Kenny Belmont
    >:^{I)>

  7. #87
    Forum Member 1958lpjr's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Great work!!! and great ideas!!!, but it seems that some of these things venture into flat out rebuilding rather than mods. Seems like the long way around the lake, to get point to point performance, when used and clean point to point products are readily available. This all seems to miss the intended price point of this amp--- But sincere congrats to all on these mods because they all seem worth it in a tone sense if not a financial/time sense.
    With that said you guys are very good if not great at what you do!!!! And I'd love to hear the results in a live playing setting with a favorite guitar. I'm not sold until I hear it live.
    Jason S.
    For more info. visit Caffeinelive.com or see kaos at mdparty.com

  8. #88
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958lpjr View Post
    Great work!!! and great ideas!!!, but it seems that some of these things venture into flat out rebuilding rather than mods. Seems like the long way around the lake, to get point to point performance, when used and clean point to point products are readily available. This all seems to miss the intended price point of this amp---
    Well, yes, and no, and such. I didn't just up and re-build mine because I felt like it. The PCB went the way of the dodo (albeit expectedly). And my circuit was not a simple drop-in, it was the best match for tube complement, wattage, speaker, and it was designed around the remaining Hot Rod components.

    Rebuilding it cost me MUCH less than a kit or new amp would, and I got the hand-wired quality in the end. It's built like a tank now. I came out way ahead, as I figure it, even with the initial amp purchase.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  9. #89
    Forum Member 1958lpjr's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Taken in that context your work and all of the above is warranted, respected and I get it. It is very obvious you know your electronic facts.
    But the trend on the threads seems to be trashing a decent amp (price vs performance), built for a price point and a receptive market and unfavorably comparing it to a Trainwreck or a Z (where price isn't the issue) or whatever the poster hears and sees as the ideal tone, and build.
    These amps aren't meant to compete with the high end,and they aren't meant to be heirlooms either. But they do provide a pretty good serving of Fender tones for the masses, and if you treat them right and have good touch they sound pretty good.
    Jason S.
    For more info. visit Caffeinelive.com or see kaos at mdparty.com

  10. #90
    Forum Member 1958lpjr's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    By the way GREAT!!! looking rebuild work!!!
    Jason S.
    For more info. visit Caffeinelive.com or see kaos at mdparty.com

  11. #91
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Thanks!

    I agree about the price points. And, honestly, considering the lower price point, it's just about the perfect platform to do this kind of stuff on.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  12. #92
    Forum Member 1958lpjr's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Thanks NTBlues,
    It's refreshing to hear someone sensibly describe these matters. I wonder how many of these mods are done in response to problems encountered after playing in a variety of actual playing situations, as opposed to the need to correct poor construction practice from the factory, or just for fun and the challenge.
    For instance I've had pedals, amps and guitars sound wonderful in my living room--free of any offending issues, and on the job it doesn't cut it because the the sound is to clinical,or clean, or it lacks any distinct charachter or voice.
    Where I disagree with alot of the HRD bashing, is that , when used in a band or possibly a recording setting, I think these amps are voiced pretty well from the factory. ( yes the drive channel is noisy, so are about ten thousand other amp and OD pedals) But with that said it sounds pretty sweet with a 58 jr through a PA in a crowded bar every saturday.
    Most working musicians use this amp in large rooms, bars whatever, with noise floors exceeding the worst designed amps in the universe----so I wonder about engineering out
    .005 db of whatever
    I think the variables of guitar type, cable type, effect chain, player ability, and the art of playing with players that listen to each other seems to be completely left out of the story. The whole load gets dumped on the HRD. Issues of heat from tubes excepted.
    Sorry about ranting!!!
    Last edited by 1958lpjr; 04-25-2008 at 08:27 AM.
    Jason S.
    For more info. visit Caffeinelive.com or see kaos at mdparty.com

  13. #93
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Question for NTBlues: In your November 23, 2007 post you included a nice picture of your HRD in its original/modified form. I noticed that you added a cap in the C32 position that is normally empty on the stock HRD. What size cap is this and what part does it play in your modifications? Did you match the original Fender values for caps C36, C35, C33 and C31 with this mod?

  14. #94
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Ah...okay, I see what you're asking about now.

    I wanted to try Sprague Atoms, and they didn't come in the same values as the stock caps. So I upped them from 22uF to 30uF in all the stages after the first stage. The first stage calls for a 47uF cap, and here I paralleled a 20uF and 30uF to make that stage 50uF.

    I was hoping for a bit extra in the filtering stage to help quiet some noise down. It wasn't really much of a change, but they were newer caps. The ICs in there were over 10 years old.

    I would do it differently next time and just get some Xicons in there at stock.

    I recommend you put your resources into the signal path components, unless you're in need of a cap job. The Spragues are just too expensive nowadays...they weren't when I did that work.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  15. #95
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Thanks, NT. I believe these caps on my HRD are fine. Sometime back I reviewed a thread entitled "Tone caps for hotrod deluxe" and copied a picture of your original, modded HRD with a list of components you swapped out. These included C5, C6 and C7 for the tone stack, C2, C10, C11 and C23 prior to the phase inverter and phase inverter caps C24, C25, C26 and C27. Are these the caps that you refer to when you say "I recommend you put your resources into the signal path components, unless you're in need of a cap job"?

  16. #96
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Those are the ones. I did a number of the mods from the Unofficial HRD site, too. Namely the brightness and 'better bass' mods.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  17. #97
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    If someone has done spice simulation of the Hot Rod Deluxe amp, I would be only to pleased to have the files....
    Cheers everybody.
    Largol.

  18. #98
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    I would do the Green Eagle Mod.

    This is for you NT

    [/url]

  19. #99
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Quote Originally Posted by LGS View Post
    I would do the Green Eagle Mod.
    Heh...you did do that mod. You did a pretty good job with that build, too.

    Thanks for the kind words!
    Last edited by NTBluesGuitar; 11-15-2008 at 12:37 PM.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  20. #100
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Really, no one made the simulations under spice ??
    Please help me as I'm not considering a total rebuild.....

  21. #101
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: My Fender Hot Rod Deluxe mods!

    Why aren't you able to run your own simulations?
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

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