so, its all in how it's angled then.Originally Posted by Huckleberry
so, its all in how it's angled then.
Gawd, I gotta tell this to my supervisor in my office.Loud ain't where it's at.
Knowing what to do with what you've got is.
Turn the fuck down.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
It's a number of things. If you want pristine clean at really high volume, the DRRI isn't the way to go. But even at jamming volumes, mine doesn't get ultra dirty.
The main concern is: the other guys are too loud. It's fun at your age, I know. But ultimately it isn't good for you or the music.
I have never had an amp more than 60 watts. And I have never played a gig where the soundguy didn't tell at least one guy to turn down.
Time wounds all heels.
If you continue to play music at those volumn levels it won't matter what kind of amp you have, cause all you'll be able to hear is a high pitch ringing in whats left of you're valuable ears. Being a musician you'll need your ears for the rest of your life.
Turn down.. tune in.. Have Fun!
Nope. I always point the amp at me. That way I can focus on how I sound. If I can't hear anybody else, I'm too loud. If I can, the mix is balanced for the audience. It works for me. YMMV, etc.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
I'd say it could be a classic case of DGS. What effects were you using?
In other words, it probably isn't the amp- it's you. My DRRI will hang with anything. If I need more, I use sound reinforcement.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
DIG.
and like the others have said, basically....TTFD!
Imanidiot.
Like I said before if your DRRI won't cut than you buddys are too loud. If ya all can't get a good mix going its not worth the trouble of putting songs together no matter what you do no one will want to listen.. As stated above dynamics are what songs are all about if you can't do that then all you have is noise.. With a Marshall MG 100 watt half stack I'll bet it's buzzy who wants to hear that shit..TTFD!!!
Keep the DRRI ditch your band mates...
Some of the places I play now, a guy that works at the club or bar has a decibel meter. If it gets beyond a certain point you either turn it down or pack up and leave.
When I was younger, I used to gig with a 120 watt half stack because I thought I needed it. I then got a 60 watt combo and now I gig with a 30 watt combo. Even with only a 30 watt combo, I still don't get to wind that sucker up. I know I have gotten better as a player over the years, but as I have gotten quieter/smaller, the gigs have gotten better, the pay is better, and the loads are so much easier.
But none of us would blame you if you got that Twin...
A good, screaming Strat just might be the greatest guitar sound of all..... -Slash
Just so you know here's the OSHA recommendations for exposure to volume levels.
TABLE G-16 - PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES (1)
__________________________________________________ ____________
Duration per day, hours | Sound level dBA slow response
____________________|_____________________________ ____
8...........................| 90
6...........................| 92
4...........................| 95
3...........................| 97
2...........................| 100
1 1/2 ....................| 102
1...........................| 105
1/2 .......................| 110
1/4 or less.............| 115
_______________________________________________
This is for a repeated condition and at daily workplace noise levels but it gives you an idea of how long you want to expose your hearing to these db levels.
VM
If aliens listened to our current top 40, they'd think that the entire planet was populated by sexually ambivalent robots with ethnic insecurity.
I'm trying to picture Black Sabbath played quietly.
It's just... wrong. ;-)
Turning down is good, sure. No argument there. But if you're careful, loud can be fun too. It *is* rock n' roll, after all. YMMV.
Some of the Vox modelers come in head format, & they're pretty cheap. There's a thought.
Master of Disaster on the Stratocaster
Right. It sure can be fun. Like we're all saying-- do it all day, just wear protection.
I just went to a doctor and had custom fit earplugs made with interchangable filters for different levels of attenuation. I'm using 15dB right now. They still sound like normal without the muffled sound of generic plugs.
I used my Hiwatt halfstack at my last gig. I should add that I put Yellow Jackets in it so it only had about 20 watts. It was dimed, used my guitar volume for clean/dirty adjustment. Plenty loud for Sabbath.
Some of us might go so far as to say that about playing Black Sabbath at all.
ouch.Some of us might go so far as to say that about playing Black Sabbath at all.
Overheard outside Gravity Studios:
"You kids get OFF MY LAWN!!!"
Last edited by Wilko; 07-12-2007 at 10:25 AM.
I tried to stay out of this, and I have to say all of the wisdom in this thread is spot on, IMO. However, slickcipher, I also think you bought the wrong amp to begin with, based on a bunch of stuff you read about me (and others) who love the amp.
You didn't really pay attention to what styles of music we were using our DRRIs for, which is by and large wholly different from what you like. Secondly, you immediately began buying effect pedal after effect pedal to put in front of it (many threads here from you about that), and then immediately began saying that you weren't getting the right tone for the music you play out of it.
As we said in 3rd grade, "No duh." I love the DRRI, and again, I agree with those in this thread who essentially say, "If you don't think it's loud enough, you're insane."
1) If you (like Kap'n suggests) aim your amp at your HEAD--not your feet/legs or elsewhere) you will hear yourself fine with the amp even on 5.
2) If you mic it and send it through the PA, it will sound great--yes, even with a pedal or two for harder rock stuff.
3) Get the other guitarist to TTFD. That's just ridiculous.
4) To my original point, if the sound of the amp when you're alone isn't getting you the tones you think you want to hear EVEN BEFORE YOU PLAY WITH THE BAND, you bought the wrong amp.
5) Getting a Crate Power Block just to be louder is a step in the wrong direction.
That was way more than two cents, but there's my opinion.
The key is getting your bandmates to understand that a workable stage volume is one where you can converse on stage (off mic) and actually hear each other while playing. That being said, a loud drummer can blow it all to hell. That's why they make plexiglass! Turn down the amps, mic 'em and get the sound out in front of you. Use the amps like monitors for your guitars! If you clean up the stage mud, you will sound much better and this is best done by turning down.
Edited to add...Try putting the bass player in the middle and play on opposite sides of the stage as well.
Last edited by flintpunk; 07-12-2007 at 12:24 PM.
...and on the 8th day, God created the Super Reverb and there was ROCK, and it was GOOD!
Any hooker will tell you that.do it all day, just wear protection.
As far as playing loud being fun, I think turning you amp up just enough to match a drummer is loud enough for fun. It may not be as loud as your 100 watt half-stack can go, but it's still loud enough to piss off anybody in the next room who doesn't want to hear it.
YMMV, this is coming from a guy who just has fun playing an acoustic guitar, silly me.
i keep reading things like this:
on these forums. it just aint true, jack.Any venue your DRRI is too small for will have a P.A. system, and you can mic it and run it through there.
i have played a *lot* of shows where:
(1) a DRRI would NOT be enough on its own.
(2) there was only minimal PA provided, or we used our own stuff (which may or may not have been enough to run more than vocals and *maybe* the kick through in many cases)
(3) i will go out on a limb and say that *most* venues that amateur musicians play do NOT have a pro-level PA system--- lots of times, not even close.
(4) playing a too-small amp miced into a too-small PA system is a lesson in anger management.
i have played far less shows where:
(5) micing a small amp through a pro-level PA system with adequate stage levels is a lead guitarists' moment of bliss.
also:
(6) i do not like the peavey windsor, and feel that one could do a *lot* better with $400 on the used market. besides, 120 watts is a little excessive, save for our beloved metalheads.
IMHO, and FWIW
a
i think you misunderstood me. the only real problem i had was with my crybaby wah, which for some reason just got shrill-er after more use. i knew what most of you were playing the drri for (in my understanding: blues, classic rock, country, southern rock etc), and that's a big reason why i went fender instead of marshall. it was not just your opinions/experiences that made me decide on a fender. i did a lot of playing and testing/research, and i do think the drri has the best tone out there. as far as volume wise, it may not be the best in all situations, but at lower and decent volumes, i love the tone. i personally thought it was loud enough, but i think it all depends on who i'm playing with and how they're playing. as far as the pedal tones, it was the crybaby. everything else sounds great through it, but there's always room for upgrading and improvement.
most of the stuff i play is more bluesy rock and classic rock, a lot of which was done on fender amps. every now and then, i do mix it up and play newer stuff, in which i want to use a pedal for. i do get the tones out of it that i want, like i said, most of what i play is classic rock. and yes, i do get the tones i need out of it. i knew what tone i wanted, and the drri had it.
like i said, it was one of the first jams i used with it, and wanted ideas on how to improve on it. whether or not a larger or louder amp would be any solution was merely opinion, and i just wanted to get an overall idea or suggestions on how to improve. the crate power block, while louder, would have been a good idea as a back up or just for areas in which i would need some more power than my drri.
so, before you begin to think i did all of this out of ignorance, i did not. i wanted a bare bones amp that sounded awesome clean, that could take good pedals well enough to give it more versatility. i bought pedals after they themselves were ran through a drri. i would not have bought them if they initially sounded like complete shit.
having the drri drowned out did not exactly make me feel too comfortable. yet, it's all in experience. and that's why this was posted: to hear different opinions and suggestions.
i have appreciated your help in the past, pc, but i just think it was misinterpreted on my behalf.
thank you for your opinion on the windsor. i had a feeling, but wasn't exactly sure.
Okay, good luck then.
I still want to know the signal chain. I keep wondering if it's Disappearing Guitar Syndrome.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
Well..this comment more about tormenting the drummer.
Time wounds all heels.
not sure what that is, but the other day i just ran my guitar into a tubescreamer into the amp.
If you are totally cranking a Deluxe Reverb, the tubescreamer will turn your sound to mudd. You won't need it at that volume.
Tubes when cranked will scream on their own. A tube screamer's job is to simulate that effect when the tubes aren't actually screaming.
That's why smaller amps are better. You can turn them up loud enough to make the tubes scream, and nobody has to get hurt.
If you can't hear yourself with a DRRI, then the band is just too fricking loud, period. I can gig with a 15 watter and burn my own ears no problem, and my band is loud.
If the problem is the audience can't hear you, then you need to ultimately invest in some better PA gear with the amp mic'd.
A cheap alternative is the put the Crate Powerblock on top of your cabinet and mic the DRRI into the Powerblock. If possible, place the powerblock/cab just behind the drummers head...
Hey man!
I gotta agree with those who say to have the others back off a bit.
There's nothing worse than too much stage noise.
The volume war has to stop.
I'm a drummer and I'd tell the drummer dude to back off or else.
He needs a sense of dynamic. If he's playing that loud all the time he's got no where to go to help the song. Explain that if he cuts back some, the band will sound better, the singing will get better, he'll feel the groove more and he'll have a way to add volume when the song needs it. If he won't get quieter, make him use blasticks or rods.
He should be more atuned to the band then himself.
So, I don't think you need to do anything with amps (unless you want to) just get the volume under control. Remember, all the pioneers that started this stuff with amps were using 5 - 10 watters for a while. The drummers were more cogent then I guess.
If, at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.
Two leaps per chasm is fatal!
And there, my friend, is the problem. A cranked DRRI with a TS in front is going to be mush and not cut.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
You keep on reading things like this because they ARE true. The DRRI is the loudest 22 watts I've ever heard.
The problem a lot of people have is setting up their gain structures on their pedals so as to turn their sound to mush and experience a case of DGS (disappearing guitar syndrome...).
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
DGS is often a result of EQ. No mids = an indistinct wash of blah.
Also, VERY few amps sound their best when they're turned up all the way.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
I usually find an open back amp on a stand has enough volume coming out of the back to serve as a monitor for the drummer (so it doesn't have to be pointed their way)...
I love my amp stand and use it most of the time at gigs but I will say that many sound guys don't like them because, while it points the amp volume more at your head so you can hear yourself, it also makes the amp sound bleed into the vocal mic's...So the sound guy loses control which they don't like...they prefer to have you hear your amp out of the monitor in front of you, not from the amp behind you. Just part of the eternal battle with sound guys
But of course we want to "move some air" with our amps and there's nothing wrong with that
so if the volume is under control, what could i use to get some distortion that will cut, if the tubes are not screaming at the volume i'm at? they'll scream, but to be significant, it's around 8 to 10, and i don't think it should be that high.
Let me see if I follow you...you're claiming you're getting drowned out, yet you also claim "volume is under control".
Next, you want distortion that will cut while also keeping the tubes from screaming.
And finally, you don't think the amp should be around 8 to 10 when you're wanting distortion as well as trying to mix with a 100W stack?
I...don't know what to say...
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Looks like what Slick's trying to say is if he gets the volume under control (i.e., gets his buddies to TTFD), how will he get the tubes to scream without using a pedal? Because right now he's not getting the scream he wants from the amp until he's got it at 8 or 10.
That's what I'm getting from the last post, anyhow. Not sure how that relates to him wanting a more powerful amp that can play loud and clean, since an amp like that would have to be even louder before the tubes began to wail.
refriedwhiskey - that's right... he's saying that he'd like to be able to play as loud as his DRRI on 8 to 10 without distortion, and then ADD volume and distortion.... but he has to crank his DRRI to these levels just to meninally heard because his drummer and second guitar player are way too loud.
So, best advice so far... turn it down.
If they won't do that, well... I'd find another band, but thaty's just me. If they won't turn down and you want to play in this group, then you need more juice.
Maybe I am confused then...wouldn't be the first time.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
Yeah, I agree with GJ. I'd get a new band, not a new amp. I would sit-in occasionally with a friend's band that played at stupid levels. Not even a SR was loud enough. My friend played through an Ampeg VT-22, and the bass player through some refrigerator looking thing (huge). We'd go out for breakfast after a gig and I couldnt hardly even hear anything for hours. If you must stay with these guys, get some hearing protection.
Kap'n, I get it when the gains of my SD1 and my TS9 are too high and I try to play them together.
Now, I use the TS9 as more of a clean boost and the SD1 as a meat-and-potatoes crunch/hair box. Works great.
BTW, off-topic - I am debuting the Les Paul AND THE STRAT XII with Crossfyre tonight. WAHOO!
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
That was my first gigging amp. Stepped DOWN to a 50-watt Marshall head through a twin 12 cab. Then down to a Pro Reverb. I learned my lesson oh, so, young.
Seriously, man, freinds don't let friends play through those Ampegs. Those guys need an intervention.
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