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Thread: A few questions for you church giggers...

  1. #1
    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    A few questions for you church giggers...

    As a lapsed Catholic who hasn't been to church since the early '80s (weddings and funerals excepted), I have a bit of trouble visualizing what a full band playing at a service would look/sound like. My only point of reference is from the "Blues Brothers" scene where James Brown rocks the house.

    Could any of you who do chuch gigs describe what it's like performing at church? How much do you play? What's your setlist? What's the volume like? What does the crowd do? That sort of thing....

    Thanks,

    DD

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    Forum Member Gtrplyr's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    What type of church are you going to be playing at? The Blues Brothers movie pretty accurately decribes a Baptist Service.

    Most sanctuaries are pretty "live" and reverberate a lot. Are you going to be playing over a pipe organ?

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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Styles vary from congregation to congregation. Even within particular denominations services can differ in style according to the communities those congregations are in.
    Last edited by Cogs; 03-19-2007 at 10:44 AM.

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    Forum Member curtisstetka's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    I play in my church's praise band.

    We've got:
    2 guitars, bass, drums, keys, sax, 2 male singers, 2 female singers

    I'm not terribly familiar with contemporary Christian music (having been raised on heathen classic rock for the most part) but we play a mix of the latest stuff, some older Christian music, and some hymns that have been reset to a more "rock" style. On a typical Sunday we play 4 songs, approximately 10-15 minutes.

    The style in general is what I'd define as rock. Our drummer lays down a pretty heavy beat sometimes, with the bass player thumping away, the other guitarist chugging with lots of distortion, and I tend to play clean and bright Tele leads on top.

    I get to use my entire pedalboard of effects - overdrive, trem, delay, chorus, even wah occasionally.

    This current incarnation of the praise band is still fairly new. Previously it was a lot more stuffy. The congregation is slowing warming up to the idea of rocking out on a Sunday morning. Most people just stand there and sing along, several people clap, some people put their hands in the air, whatever the Spirit leads them to do. The band is getting tighter all the time and really is a thrill to play in.

    I've seen several different praise bands and it really does vary greatly depending on the church. At this one small church the praise band was about 75% of the 2 hour service. They played through everything and the people REALLY got into it. I saw another place where they had a full choir, full brass section, and it was just freaking awesome the sound they produced. That church had some money too so the gear was top notch pro quality. It was a concert-level performance of gospel music.

    I grew up in a very conservative church so it still blows my mind that every Sunday I can get up there and jam on my Tele. But you know what? It really makes perfect sense and it is Biblically "okay" to make a loud and joyful noise to the Lord. The best way I know how to express myself is through my guitar so why shouldn't I play it for God?
    s'all goof.

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    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    +1 for what curtisstetka said

    I'm playing at a non-denominational Christian church of about 1500 members (average Sunday attendance of 1200 between 3 services). Our first service is "blended" which means we do hymns and some older contemporary (i.e., they were contemporary in the 90's but are still "new" to the older attenders at this service). We have a full pipe organ that plays on some stuff and we use a lot of piano with some drums/bass/guitar on a few songs.

    Now our second and third services are full-blown "contemporary" playing current Christian radio songs and back to the 90's. We'll even work in a secular song (e.g., Daniel Powter's "Bad Day") if it fits the message or whatever. Most of the time we have 2-3 guitars (acoustic and 2 electrics - 1 clean, 1 distortion), bass, drums, percussion, piano, Hammond B3, and sometimes sax or flute. We have usually run 5-6 singers (we have 10 in a rotation). The Music & Worship Minister will often lead (but we mix it up some with soloist, alternating men/women on verses, etc.)

    Most weeks we start with a "band jam" (maybe an instrumental secular song or instrumental of one of that week's praise songs, in which case the singers walk on about 3 min. into it and pickup singing). Next they usually do the "shake and howdy" (turn to your neighbor...) while the band kicks off the next song (something rockin').
    We do 3-4 uptempo songs and then "bring it down" into the Communion prayer. The piano (sometimes with soft guitar or flute fills) plays thru communion.

    We'll then either do a "performance" song or maybe a new song that we haven't done before (i.e., we don't expect the congregation to sing along - but they can if they know it - this is a good way to get them familiar with new material that we'll include in future weeks in the regular sing-along praise set). Offering is during this song.

    After the message we do an "invitation song" (people are encouraged to come forward for prayer, etc.). This is softer and very "worshipful". The minister then does a closing prayer and we'll play instrumentally as people exit. This will either be softly (if people are still praying) or sometimes we "rock out" -just depends on the particular service and what feels right. We have to remember why we're there and we have to be flexible if the Spirit leads in a different direction (we're pretty good at improvising, changing arrangement on the fly, following the leader, etc.)

    One thing that I think is common to all modern church bands is problems with stage volume (and monitoring issues) and how you find the right balance between "rock concert" levels and creating an environment that in conducive for worship, prayer, etc. for a room full of people with different "church backgrounds", musical tastes, etc. I'll warn you to be prepared to make some comprimises (maybe no amps on stage, in-ears monitors, low amp volumes, electronic vs. real drums, etc. etc.) There are threads on here and several other Internet forums (TheGearPage, HarmonyCentral, LesPaulForum, etc.) that go into details on these types of issues.

    Also, here's some music examples of songs we've done (our arrangements are similar). Several will start with a single vocal, let the crowd start singing along and then build up. You will notice a lot of changes in dynamics in many contemporary Christian arrangements...

    I Am Free: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8_KO18A0Lw

    Everday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFhMsNP4IEM

    Better Than Life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQRRmP_vY34

    Now Is The Time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRCgvMGWtG8

    Here I Am To Worship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=073iLvpzpz8

    How Great Is Our God: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Abq3ce9Scw

    Friend of God: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwunCJArK0A
    (we don't have the big choir but we do it similar to this version)

    We're in process of building a new facility (main room will seat 1200 and can be built out to hold 2000+ later). This will let us start serving 3-4 times what we currently do on a typical Sunday. We plan to be in the new location by spring 2009. This facility will have an even better stage, lighting and sound system setup than we currently have. Our current room looks nice (very high, all wood ceilings, rock walls, etc.) but is NOT a good room acoustically (we're constantly trying to make it better with wall treatments, better controls of stage volume, etc.) I'm so happy to know that the new place is being designed by an acoustical engineer! :)
    Last edited by mmcquain; 03-19-2007 at 12:06 PM.
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    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrplyr View Post
    What type of church are you going to be playing at? The Blues Brothers movie pretty accurately decribes a Baptist Service.

    Most sanctuaries are pretty "live" and reverberate a lot. Are you going to be playing over a pipe organ?
    Not going to be playing at a church. I was more curious because it seems there's quite a few players on the board here that do play at church and it's something that I'm not likely to do in my lifetime.

    Aside from Jake and Elwood , my only experience with music in church was the congregation singing the tired old hymns or the priest singing in Latin. Wow - 1200 plus people....the church I went to as a kid held maybe 150-200 at most. And a lot of those seats were empty.

    But thanks for the info and links mccquain and curtissteka. mccquain - sounds like you're playing almost all day in that setting. I'll check the U2b stuff when I get off work...

    Do you guys get to rehearse on the church stage during off-hours?

    DD

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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Back in the late '70s I went to a "Charismatic" Catholic mass. I'm pretty sure the mass (or is it Mass?) was still in latin but the laypeople were all folked-out; lots of sandals & gut string guitars. It was pretty cool.

  8. #8
    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Actually, now that you say that....I remember the folkie thing happening at the church I went to as well - that would have been around '78-'79 as well. The performance lasted all of about 5 minutes during Mass. Probably kumbaya. Not what it sounds like what mcquain and curtisstetka are doing...

    DD

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    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog View Post
    ...Wow - 1200 plus people....the church I went to as a kid held maybe 150-200 at most. And a lot of those seats were empty...mccquain - sounds like you're playing almost all day in that setting...Do you guys get to rehearse on the church stage during off-hours?
    The current room holds 800 max. and on a typical Sunday we'll have approx. 200 for first service and 500-600 each at second and third services.

    We get there at 7am to sound check. First service runs 8-9am, second from 9:30-10:30am, and third service is from 11am-noon. Of course, the minister usually goes long by 5-10 minutes so realistically we're not done until about 12:15pm and then it takes us a few minutes to shut down but I'm usually home before 1pm.

    We practice on the church stage from 7-10pm Thursday nights and we can leave the stage set up most weeks (unless there's a wedding or funeral) so that makes Sunday mornings, etc. go much faster. Once we build the new place, phase 2 calls for a separate 200 seat chapel. Our "blended" first service will move there (thus letting us do 3 services of all contemporary stuff in the big/main sanctuary room). The chapel will be setup for piano and more acoustic music. It will also be used for weddings and funerals - no more stage tear downs in the main room!

    Once we have the chapel done and the main room is expanded to 2000 seats then we could handle up to 6200-6400 people per week (3 contemporary services of 2000 each plus 1-2 blended services of 200 each). And that's just on Sundays - we do a smaller Wednesday night service and are starting Saturday night services soon. Obviously we'll have lots of room for growth from the approx. 1200 people we currently serve on a Sunday. We've been blessed with 30 acres of prime location land next to several large developments (50,000 homes I think) in a tri-county area at the top of Tampa Bay - the place is just booming and I really think God has big things in store for us. Should be a lot of fun and a thrill to see how He'll work in all of this and I'm so thankful I can use my talents to be a part of it.

    Here's a picture of what the new sanctuary will look like:


    And here's some more info on our church's growth plans. You can see additional pictures of the separate stage areas for the youth, middle and high school services. There's also images of the new children's area - makes me want to be a kid again Phase 1 is set to be a 60,000 sq.ft. complex.
    Last edited by mmcquain; 03-20-2007 at 02:28 PM.
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    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    mmcquain - WOW! That that is some church.

    DD - definitely not in the Bible Belt.

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    Forum Member frank thomson's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    whoa!

    honestly, the whole concept of a band in a Church is weird to me.

    i'm a *choir only* kinda guy

    but if it floats yer boat, brother, Via Con Dios.
    Imanidiot.

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    Forum Member curtisstetka's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Same here. Until I started playing in it, it was a foreign concept to me as well. I'm just beginning to become familiar with the music as well.
    s'all goof.

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    Forum Member dirtdog's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by frank thomson View Post
    whoa!

    honestly, the whole concept of a band in a Church is weird to me.

    i'm a *choir only* kinda guy

    but if it floats yer boat, brother, Via Con Dios.
    or perhaps...."In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Santi"?

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    Forum Member Fripperton's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Domenic go frisk 'em.

    And a couple of guys come and take the money.


    Heaven's phone number..... Et Cum Spiritu tuo.
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    Forum Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    mmcquain,
    That looks just like the church I attend.
    Iplayed in the praise/worship band for 9 years. Through all the turbulence of starting up and getting the right atmosphere, equipment etc. Then, last year I stepped aside and let some teens in.
    They're all doing a great job.
    Our setup and routine is pretty much the same as in Post # 5.

    It was great when I was doing it and better than that now that I've stopped. I like seeing the younger folks steppin' up and getting involved.
    If, at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.
    Two leaps per chasm is fatal!

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    I used to play in the worship band at Mikey's church before moving on to a smaller church - but the music is the same at both places.

    Contemporary Christian music sounds pretty much just like what you'd hear on any other station, just with different lyrics. Some of the arrangements are a bit canned, but I've been excited to see that there is a lot of crunchy guitars, and Edge-y styled guitars in modern rock worship.

    I don't use quite as elaborate pedalboard as mmcquain, but pretty much anything goes as far as effects go - and the guitars can be as raw or as tame as you might like.

    The differences (at least in my experience) are that the vocals are always the focus, and everything should support getting the congregation to sing (except on special music, but there the vocals are still the focus) and that the performance elements usually don't go over the top. I might take an 8 or 16-bar solo, but never would I take a 32-bar solo. Generally, when I solo, too, I try to restate and embellish the melody as much as possible. They do like us to move around, though, and look as though we're enjoying ourselves, so I can pretty much be myself. It's great!

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
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    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

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    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    ...Through all the turbulence of starting up and getting the right atmosphere, equipment etc...
    I know what you mean. A few year ago our main music/praise minister left and we went through half a dozen different "interim" music leaders before we settled on our current guy, who's been with us almost 2 years now. So we've certainly had our share of "turbulence", not to mention moving our congregation away from a much more traditional worship/music style to a contemporary format. We've found the contemporary style much more inviting to "seekers" just walking in the door of a church for the first time (or after many years).

    And then there's been to ongoing struggles of the acoustical properties of our main room, which has walls of rock, glass, wood, drywall, etc. (it all looks nice but is an acoustic nightmare). We've finally gotten this under control by removing most amps from stage and going direct whenever possible. We covered the rock wall (except for behind the baptistry), put the drummer in a complete enclosure (clear shield front with some kind of black acoustical material on the top and back walls). We're loving having real drums again (after 2 years of V-Drums).

    We are still working out monitor issues. We've used it all (wedges,
    in-ears, Aviom personal mix stations, etc.). We finally got them to release monitor mixing from the booth where they're mixing FOH (i.e., it had been all mixed from a single board with 10 submix buses). We've gotten the monitor mix board moved down to the stage area but currently don't have a monitor engineer so me or one of the other guitarist are doing monitor mixing on the fly. We have to work hard at practice to make everybody "happy" with their mix (still use in-ears for most band members and wedges for the singers). During service we only touch the board if its a quick tweak here or there. Not the best setup but better than trying to signal the booth in the middle of a song to adjust our monitors when he's focused on FOH.

    Oh the joys of doing music in church! But I love being able to use my talents for God so its all good in the end.
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    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    ...Some of the arrangements are a bit canned, but I've been excited to see that there is a lot of crunchy guitars, and Edge-y styled guitars in modern rock worship...The differences (at least in my experience) are that the vocals are always the focus, and everything should support getting the congregation to sing (except on special music, but there the vocals are still the focus) and that the performance elements usually don't go over the top. I might take an 8 or 16-bar solo, but never would I take a 32-bar solo...
    Yep, that sums it up for our church as well. Of course, being a classic rock/blues guy I'd love to hear/be able to work in a few more of those guitar parts. We have another guitarist that can nail the Edge's delay sounds, etc. but I've never been good at that. My parts are more crunchy power chords or Allmanesque lead lines (need a Les Paul through a Marshall sound with some minor key pentatonic riffs and I'm all over it )

    You're right about the focus being on the vocals almost all of the time. 8 measures is probably the longest solo I've done but it's all about "connecting people to Christ" (our church's mission statement). I'm just glad that I get to play out every week and use my talents for something more than playing music to drink beer by in a bar some place. And the fact that I can leave my stuff set up and know that it is safe during the week is a plus too!
    .
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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmcquain View Post
    Aviom personal mix stations, etc .
    Arrrrgh! We had to use those at Mikey's church...what a pain, to be chained to one of those, and not be able to move around much! Plus, I couldn't use even my Vox Pathfinder there, 'cause no amps on stage - but the humungous grand piano being played by Paul Bunyan the worship director drowned out EVERYTHING - unless I had my Aviom too loud. I will never, ever use one of those things again - I want to play music, not tweak my own monitor mix.

    One thing I've noticed in church musicians who've never done a club gig is how particular they can be about the monitor mixes. Shoot, I've done gigs with Crossfyre in which the monitors were practically nonexistent (remember that one Lou's Cottage gig, Mikey 'n' Chuck?) and basically sang to what was bouncing off the back wall...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmcquain View Post
    But I love being able to use my talents for God so its all good in the end.
    I do too. It feels good to give something back. (I realize that's a cliche but then again, cliches are such because they're generally true.) It feels good to be able to share my abilities with my church friends and to know that I'm doing something worthwhile.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmcquain View Post
    And the fact that I can leave my stuff set up and know that it is safe during the week is a plus too!
    I can't wait until we get a 24/7 space! That's a few years off; we meet in a middle-school auditorium.

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  21. #21
    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    ...but the humungous grand piano being played by Paul Bunyan the worship director drowned out EVERYTHING...One thing I've noticed in church musicians who've never done a club gig is how particular they can be about the monitor mixes. Shoot, I've done gigs...and basically sang to what was bouncing off the back wall...
    In our cases the problem is the pipe organ whenever they want the band to play during our first service ("blended" but still fairly traditional). Those pipes can drown out anything! Our pianist is really good and does great at controlling his dynamics. He often serves as the band leader (think Paul Shaffer with hair ) so hearing him is important for the rest of the band.

    As for monitor issues... you said it
    One of our guitarists (the Edge Jr.) could spend hours tweaking his monitor mix, guitar EQ, etc. I remember very early on when I was mainly running sound (now I'm guitar full-time) I caught him in there early one day and he was in the booth tweaking the room EQ to make his acoustic guitar sound good He was banned from the booth forever (good thing I wasn't in charge of fire and brimstone that day!). He's gotten much better over the years (he's started playing out some so I think he's learning). I also then put locking covers over the front of the rack!

    As for singers, we just changed out the front monitors (used to have those big ol' JBL wedges) and they seem much happier with the new monitor coverage pattern.
    .
    MMCQUAIN * Rock, Blues, Christian player * mmcquain@mcquain.com
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  22. #22
    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    The singers come to me often and tell me that I'm too loud. We don't have a drummer or bass player currently, (though I trigger our drum machine, dubbed "beaker," with my feet) and so I am perhaps the loudest instrument on stage. But it's a Pathfinder 15R played about as quiet as I can and still hear myself well when I'm standing at my vocal mic. I tell them they should try to stand in front of Mikey and OSA and sing, and then come back and tell me I'm too loud - of course, they have no idea what a live club band sounds like from onstage. Actually, though the keyboard isn't too loud at all, it's such a full-range instrument that it eats up a ton of monitor bandwidth. We're looking at getting a dedicated monitor for our keyboardist and then only putting a touch of her in the vocal wedges.

    I'd say we're in the infancy of sound reinforcement with this group.

    But, every week, no matter what technical problems occur - somehow the worship is always meaningful and effective. Something happens between instruments and output - the deus ex machina, if you will...

    "I'm gonna find myself a girl
    that can show me what laughter means
    And we'll fill in the missing colors
    In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."

  23. #23
    Forum Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    RJ<
    That's the "Holy Magic" that happens... wink, wink.
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  24. #24
    Forum Member Jonnda's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdog View Post
    Could any of you who do chuch gigs describe what it's like performing at church?
    Unless it is a concert, try not to think of your music as a performance but as an aid to help people worship God. When I play guitar in church, I feel it is my best form of worship... it's how I sing praise and thanks for (among other things) my ability to play. In this way I am not just throwing sound at the congregation but praising God with the congregation.

    But that may just be my Mennonite background speaking. Mennonites tend to be very community/fellowship oriented.
    "The other Shaltanac's joopleberry shrub is always a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet."

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    Forum Member Rickenjangle's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnda View Post
    Unless it is a concert, try not to think of your music as a performance but as an aid to help people worship God. When I play guitar in church, I feel it is my best form of worship... it's how I sing praise and thanks for (among other things) my ability to play. In this way I am not just throwing sound at the congregation but praising God with the congregation.

    But that may just be my Mennonite background speaking. Mennonites tend to be very community/fellowship oriented.
    That may be the case, but I can tell you, you've effectively put voice to my exact feeling on this topic.

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    Forum Member Jonnda's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenjangle View Post
    That may be the case, but I can tell you, you've effectively put voice to my exact feeling on this topic.
    Thanks. I am aware and glad that some people share my feelings, and that others prefer mega churches with theater seats. I would not feel very comfortable in the space below, but if it works for other people more power to 'em.


    This is an age old debate if you ask me, and the topic of where the line between performance and worship is comes up every couple weeks at my church. Especially any time something is changed about the arrangement of chairs, sound system or even where the music group is set up. So it has come to my attention many times in my life.

    Here is my home church some time around last year, still under reconfiguring from store front to church.


    We have carpet better seats and paint on the walls, and two flown martins, but other then that it's pretty simple.
    "The other Shaltanac's joopleberry shrub is always a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet."

    "there's NOTHING WRONG with a live penguin, but...I expected a hamburger!"

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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnda View Post
    Thanks. I am aware and glad that some people share my feelings, and that others prefer mega churches with theater seats. I would not feel very comfortable in the space below, but if it works for other people more power to 'em.

    This is an age old debate if you ask me...
    You're right, this is an issue that is debated in all churchs, including the one I attend, even now as we are going through this growth period. As Rickenjangle pointed out, you did a great job of summing up the key issue in all of this: Don't lose sight of the goal ("connecting people to Christ" is how we refer to it at my church). It should never be about "performance" (any more than it is about building, threater seats, etc.)... it is about providing an atmosphere that helps people to connect with their God.

    As for the "mega-church" concept with lots of seats and such, I think that is just the logical evolution for some churches in FAST GROWING, major metropolin areas. The places/environments that could justify a 1,000, 5,000 or 10,000 seat church are certainly not everywhere (or for everybody). I will say that one of the most spiritual connections I'ver personally experienced was a last year's Saddleback Worship Arts Conference in a room of about 2,000-3,000 people (fyi - Saddleback is the mega-church led by Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Life" series). Of course, I've also had some deep connections with God in a room of 1. So I guess you just have to find what works for you and your community.

    I'm like you... "When I play guitar in church, I feel it is my best form of worship... it's how I sing praise and thanks for (among other things) my ability to play. In this way I am not just throwing sound at the congregation but praising God with the congregation." VERY WELL SAID JONNDA
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Just one more thing i have to add...

    In Valle Nuevo, El Salvador where my church has a "sister" church that they aid in various ways, from what I understand there has been some real growth happening there as the area heals it's wounds from the civil war of the 1980's. One of the things that my church help set up was a system of home church services. The deal is that once these services become to have more then about 15 regular attendees, the church splits into two groups to form two new churches.

    I thought it was a cool way to solve the problem of handeling rapid church growth with out the building a huge santuary.
    "The other Shaltanac's joopleberry shrub is always a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet."

    "there's NOTHING WRONG with a live penguin, but...I expected a hamburger!"

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    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnda View Post
    Just one more thing i have to add...

    In Valle Nuevo, El Salvador where my church has a "sister" church that they aid in various ways, from what I understand there has been some real growth happening there as the area heals it's wounds from the civil war of the 1980's. One of the things that my church help set up was a system of home church services. The deal is that once these services become to have more then about 15 regular attendees, the church splits into two groups to form two new churches.

    I thought it was a cool way to solve the problem of handeling rapid church growth with out the building a huge santuary.
    Interesting idea that sounds like a great way to handle growth in that area. At our church we really focus on "core groups" (some call them "small groups" and in the old days you'd probably say "Bible study group"). As churches in general have gotten bigger, it becomes much harder to have a real sense of community/fellowship with other church members. We're working hard to help keep our members "plugged in" so they feel like there other people who know them personally and who can support them when needed and who can hold each other accountable as we all face struggles and temptations throughout life.

    A core group (4-12 people on average) can be made up around a common study (Bible, book, etc.), similar background/interests (men's group, women's group, young singles, couples, motorcycle enthusiasts, etc.). They key here is to find people you can relate to and who will be there for you when you need 'em (and vice versa). Our minister says he wants every person in that big ol' sanctuary to feel like "they will be missed" if they don't show up some Sunday (i.e., somebody knows their name and cares about them and they never feel like "just a face in a crowd".

    Core groups then meet weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, whatever works for that group (there is no one "right way" to do things). They can study God's Word, fellowship together (dinner, cookout, go to a game together, etc.) and they also are people you know you can call in the middle of the night when you need somebody to pray with you while they rush your kid to the E.R. or just when you're feeling "down" or whatever the case may be.

    It's part of the whole idea that EVERY one of us is an important part of the Body of Christ's Church and we each need to be there for one another. And when you get over a few hundred members, let's face it, you'll never be able to even keep track of all their names/faces (especially true in a church like ours that sees lots of NEW people coming each week).
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Yep, we have "small groups" too. Though at some point they changed the name over to "cell groups" ...blech.

    But I'm the only one that seems to have a problem with it, so whatever.
    "The other Shaltanac's joopleberry shrub is always a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet."

    "there's NOTHING WRONG with a live penguin, but...I expected a hamburger!"

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    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnda View Post
    Yep, we have "small groups" too. Though at some point they changed the name over to "cell groups" ...blech.

    But I'm the only one that seems to have a problem with it, so whatever.
    Just make sure you stay awake at the group meetings, don't want to be accused of being a "sleeper cell" (sorry, I couldn't resist a pun like that)
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    Forum Member Jonnda's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmcquain View Post
    "sleeper cell" (sorry, I couldn't resist a pun like that)
    No, that's the Cell Group for narcoleptic and insomniac personal support and fellowship. To tell the truth they created it to monitor those suspected of being catholic spies from the 16th century.



    I can't resist puns either.
    "The other Shaltanac's joopleberry shrub is always a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet."

    "there's NOTHING WRONG with a live penguin, but...I expected a hamburger!"

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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    .
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Here is a link you might find interesting:

    http://churchsound.prosoundweb.com/i...f14069eebe96c/

    It's the church sound forum on prosoundweb. The regular parts of the forums are great for conventional SR issues and lots of the big boys (national touring act sound guys) hang out there.

    Doug

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    Forum Member refin's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    I'm a different player in church than outside of it,because my role is different.I want to add to the tapestry of sound without being a deterrent,so I tend to shy away from soloing and anything other than fills.I am doing a few small solos,but only because the tunes we do may have one.I have been through the "Rock The Flock" worship teams,and always felt a bit out of place.
    Sadly,there are people who choose a church the same way they choose a club...because of the music.They won't go hear a band at night,so they look for "that" style on Sunday morning.It used to bug me when I would get offstage after P&W and hear comments like,"You guys were rocking !" or "Great guitar playing!" or whatever.When you hear that in leiu of "I felt God's presence,peace,majesty, and beauty",it's a gut check for me.
    To me,if it doesn't point to Him and bring people into His presence,it's pointing at someone else....guess who?


    Now.....outside the church,I'm paid to be an entertainer.I will go stupid wild like a pig in a cornfield.
    "My flesh and my heart fail...but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever."
    PS. 73:26

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  36. #36
    Forum Member mmcquain's Avatar
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    Re: A few questions for you church giggers...

    Quote Originally Posted by refin View Post
    I'm a different player in church than outside of it,because my role is different.I want to add to the tapestry of sound without being a deterrent ... when I would get offstage after P&W and hear comments like,"You guys were rocking !" or "Great guitar playing!" or whatever. When you hear that in leiu of "I felt God's presence,peace,majesty, and beauty", it's a gut check for me.
    To me, if it doesn't point to Him and bring people into His presence,it's pointing at someone else....guess who?
    Good words to keep in mind when playing/singing in church for any of us in a praise band/team... we need to remember that our role is to be a tool for God to use to help make a connection with the people in His church.
    Last edited by mmcquain; 03-23-2007 at 09:47 AM.
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